Wilderness protection ideas when hiking?

[ShooterMcGavin]

I recently bought a S&W M&P40 handgun for a CCW and I expect to use it for protection when I go hiking as well. I know a long-gun would be better in all areas, EXCEPT for carrying the thing. I know it is a compromise to carry the handgun.

What am I preparing to face??
For the most part, I could meet up with cougars or bears where I'm going (Cascades). Any other major threats in that area that you know of? Cougars may likely be fended off with just a warning shot. If not, Federal JHPs should not be a problem. Bears on the other hand.... ? Using a .40 against a bear is kinda like using a .22 against a human... you need good shot placement. Ok, maybe it's better than a .22 against a human, but that's my analogy. I have read that HP rounds do not work well against a bear because they tend to mushroom and don't get great penetration. Is this true?

My thoughts...
I am planning to carry in a shoulder holster, with at least 1 extra mag in the carrier. This will be in addition to the backpack, and I'm not sure how well the two will handle. My main question is ammo. Because HP rounds do not penetrate well, I am thinking I will alternate HPs with something that penetrates deeply. Is that a good idea?? What should I get for a round that penetrates well??

 

[Stevie-Ray]

10mm, 200 gr jacketed solid, but that's just me. PMC makes a nice one. Might be a similar round in .40, but personally I'd hate to give up any power. But then, as they say, any gun.........

 

[Thefabulousfink]

There have been a large number of threads on this in the hand guns forums, a search will bring up a lot.

Any gun is better than none and shot placement is key. As far as ammo goes.. just think of three "H"s.
Heavy, Hard, and Hot.

Use the heaviest bullets you can find, with hard-cast lead or full metal jackets, and as hot a loading as you can shoot safely.

The important thing when shooting dangerous animals like bear and moose is deep penetration through layers of tough skin muscle and bone. Hollowpoints expand too early and won't carry enough energy to shatter bone.

The skull is very thick on bears except in the eye sockets or through the open mouth. Bears have been taken with handguns this way but the targets are very small and there isn't much room for second chances.

The good news is that most bears will try to avoid you just as much as you try to avoid them unless the bear is starving or feels you are theatening her cubs. Pay attention to your surroundings while out in the woods and you shouldn't have any problems.

 

[ShooterMcGavin]

Would cheap FMJ that I use for target shooting be best? ...to get the best penetration?

 

[Handyman]

I don't want to offend anyone , but . Whenever I see this type of thread I have to laugh . If you're so afraid of being attacked by some woodland creature while hiking , then maybe you should stick to the pavement .
Animals have learned that humans are at the top of the food chain and are more afraid of us than we are of them . Yes , people have been attacked but it is extremely rare . Grizzly or brown bears and polar bears are definately something to be wary of . Mothers who feel there cubs , kittens or pups are being threatened can be dangerous . But , for the average hiker , if youy pay attention to whats going on around you [ just like anywhere ] you have nothing to fear. Just make a little noise or even wear a little bell while hiking to let the " dangerous animals " know you are coming .
I'm not saying you shouldn't carry a gun when hiking , I do . Stuff can happen anywhere , anytime and it's good to be prepared . But to worry about there being some wild animal behind every tree , ready to make a meal of you is IMO rediculous .
Just ask any hunter how difficult it is to even see an animal good enough to get a shot at one .
I've put many miles on my hiking boots and the only thing I felt I needed protection from was 2 legged predators .

 

[Mainsail]

I'll be hiking the Col Bob trail to Mulkey Shelter in the Olympic Mountains on Sunday, PM me if you want to come. The hike should be about 8 miles RT, bring snowshoes. You can check out my new Ruger Super Redhawk Alaskan in .44 magnum.

 

[ShooterMcGavin]

Whenever I see this type of thread I have to laugh . If you're so afraid of being attacked by some woodland creature while hiking , then maybe you should stick to the pavement

I'm not offended. I have been hiking for many years and never brought a gun with me; I've never been afraid. I recently bought my first handgun for a CCW. Since I have it, I might as well bring it into the woods, and I'm looking for the best ammo for whatever I encounter.
I'm happy I could give you a laugh

I don't think I expressed "worry" in my post. However, if there's any 4-legged animal that I would worry about most, it would be cougars. ...and any round that can stop a bear can also handle a cougar.

 

[Dave Workman]

McGavin: You ought to join the NWHikers forum.

 

[J. Parker]

The folks at www.doubletapammo.com have 40cal "woods" loads. IMO, perfect for the hiker or camper who carries a 40cal pistol. Also, IMO, hollowpoints are best against humans or in an urban setting. FMJ for use in the woods. You want deep penetration NOT fancy expansion.

 

[Cosmoline]

You can't go wrong with a .44 Mag or .357 loaded on the heavy side. Of course, THESE guys went into the Olympics loaded for bear, cannibals and teams of rival newsmen

 

[model4006]

i did my own little penetration test of wwb fmj, the cheap ammo i use for target practice, and remmington jhp ums rounds penetrated better, ALOT better.

if its your life that your concerned about buying this ammo for defending, do the right thing, buy a box of quality ammo and set it aside just for your hiking. just DONT use cheap bullets. even an expensive box is like 20 bucks, if thats gonna break your bank stay home.

 

[ShooterMcGavin]

McGavin: You ought to join the NWHikers forum.

Thanks Dave. I'm actually a member there, even though I haven't been at that forum in a long time.

The folks at www.doubletapammo.com have 40cal "woods" loads.

I will definitely check that site out. It may be just what I need. Thanks.

THESE guys went into the Olympics loaded for bear, cannibals and teams of rival newsmen

Great picture. Those guys were rugged!! I have been off-trail... FAR off-trail, and it is not an easy trek!

Do you think the photographer said to the guy standing on the left, "Hey Redmond, point over yonder, like you found the trail"?

 

[Colt46]

Not a fan of ammo cohabitation

Pick one and stick with it. For two legged critters HP's are perfect. For larger, fanged predators I'd go with something that will penetrate.
For what you want, overpenetration is a better option on human beings than underpenetration on bear or puma.

 

[Thain]

I have never been attack or assaulted by an animal while hiking or camping. However, the wife of a good freind was set upon by a pair of predators while breaking camp one morning in the remote reaches of the U.P.

Her .357 Ruger and some harsh language to convinced them to seek greener pastures... Way she figured it (and I concur) is that any bullet that will drive off a 400 lbs. bear should do just fine agiast a 200 lbs. human.

I'm still wondering which ones are the higher species, though....

 

[ShooterMcGavin]

Pick one and stick with it...

I guess you are telling me that HPs really do nothing against a bear? It sounds like that's a lot of what I have read lately.

How about this:
Full Metal Jacket Flat Point
Is that what I should buy??

Thanks.

 

[roscoe]

DoubleTap makes a 200 grain hardcast load for the .40. That is the only way to go for the .40 in the woods, I would think:

http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_26&products_id=210

 

[Colt46]

Heard good things about DoubleTap

I'd try that and a few other loads to see which one works well in your gun and for your shooting abilities. Some loads might have more recoil or muzzle flash than shooters can handle. The best bear defense load in the world is useless if the shooter can't reliably put it on target when needed.

For large game a handgun must have the ability to penetrate to the animals vital areas. Unless you can count on a brain shot, your gonna have to penetrate quite a bit more tissue and perhaps bone than on a human target. A hollowpoint trades penetration for expansion. Makes for some nasty wounds and tissue destruction, but bone can really limit penetration. Human targets, walking upright, require far less penetration to reach vital areas. Usually 12" is enough or even less. Also, hollowpoints don't always expand like they are supposed to.

 

[Dorryn]

I dont want to take this thread off on a tangent, but isn't carrying onto Federal land illegal? Im just curious because I occasionally go hiking and I would like to take my CCW if I was in no danger of violating the law.

 

[B.D. Turner]

The chances of you needing a pistol for animal protection are remote but the peace of mind is priceless.
My experience with a vicious animal shooting occured about five years ago when I worked for the sheriff's office. I responded to a 120lb+ rottweiler(sp) had gone bad. Our issue weapon was an H&K USP .45 loaded with 185gr JHP. The rotty charged me and soaked up six rounds of the .45 like nothing ever happened. Another deputy hit him square in the shoulder and turned him as he was within six feet of me. This was a dog that was angry and refused to die even after taking so many hits. He was later put to sleep at the vets office.
Of the rounds that struck the dog none penetrated through him. The bullets expanded just like they were made to do on a human and did not exit. Against an animal they were very much lacking. My opinion based on this incident would be to carry another round for woods walking and hiking than for CCW. Penetration may be a problem in an urban setting but in the woods penetration is very much needed against a dangerious animal.

 

[DesertShooter]

Just my opinion, but based upon having been charged at by an angered mama bear....handguns of almost ANY caliber will be good for "noise making", and I'd rather scare off a 4-legged animal than to wound or kill it. After all, it's called "hiking", not "hunting"! Add to that, while you may be a fantastic shooter, you can't always depend upon bullet placement or penetration when you're scared "sh--less" by a hulking wild animal that's snarling and baring their HUGE teeth!

The mama bear that charged at me was diverted by the "noisemaker" on my hip....a .38 special revolver! Actually, the 6 rounds that I fired into the ground scared her cub, and mama bear heard the bleating of the cub before breaking off of the charge. I was glad that ALL of us were safe!

The only "critters" that I actually fear are the 2-legged variety. I often go out to VERY remote desert spots for shooting/camping. Heck, I don't even kill rattlesnakes anymore, for they eat rodents (I'd hate to get that Hanta virus from a furry-covered little pocket mouse or Kangaroo rat).
I just "relocate" the rattlers with a home-made snare. After all, it's THEIR home, not mine! The only thing is, if I was able to get to a remote spot in the desert, other people can get there, too! Fortunately, I rarely run into strangers where I go, but the few that have come across my camping/shooting spot have always caused me some worry! It's not exactly "proper" to yell to approaching strangers to disarm before getting any closer! So far, I haven't had any problems with the "criminal" element out there...and I always allow approaching strangers to see that I am armed and paying close attention to them.

 

[FMJMIKE]

Your biggest threat while hiking will be two-legged predators. Common sense and being careful will help you avoid any entanglements with the four-legged predators. If you really know of a problem such as Grizzly Bears carry the biggest darn rifle you can carry or stay at home.

 

[22-rimfire]

Good to have peace of mind with the hand gun. I also carry. First choice would be to frighten off four legged critters. Most criminals or would be criminals don't hike, but you just never know. I would just pay attention. That is especially true at trail heads and around road crossings. I'm not much for wearing bells; I like to be quiet in the outdoors. I'll deal with the four legged critters if and when I have to. Chances are very small to get too worried about it in the lower 48 states.

 

[Lupinus]

if you can find bullets actually made for hunting in the first place go with those but stick to the general three H rule mentioned above. JHP's won't do squat agianst most predators. As it goes, humans have a pretty weak skin bone and mussle structure compared to other animals, we were made to be the smartest in the forest not the biggist and baddist. Rounds designed for use on humans reflect this and simply are not made to go through the very tough skin bone and mussle of an animal like a bear. So go hot heavy hard cast lead of FMJ. And noI wouldn't go with the target loads you use for plinking, they are designed to be cheap and reasonably accurat, not deliver the most whalup.

As to this-

Whenever I see this type of thread I have to laugh . If you're so afraid of being attacked by some woodland creature while hiking , then maybe you should stick to the pavement

Which is why plenty of hikers get attacked every year right?

Do you say the same thing to people who CCW? Just because the chances are very slim doesn't mean they aren't there and shouldn't be prepared for.

 

[Redneck with a 40]

I would leave the 40 at home and take a 357 magnum loaded with some buffalo bore 180 grain hard cast loads, I believe they push 1300 fps out of a 4 inch barrel, thats close to 700 ft/lbs of energy.

 

[molonlabe]

I have hiked the wilderness areas alone most of my life. The only animals I was worried about were the two-legged predatory type so I carried minimum .38/357 or a .45 with HP. In bear country don’t get between a cub and mother, Make noise and keep your food away from your campsite. Other than that you are more likely to step on a rattlesnake than running across a wild animal so stay alert. If this still gives you a pause stay in the well populated areas where rangers have a presence. 90% of the people going into the National Forest use less than 10% of the parks. These areas come with roads, outhouses and paths.