Will it be another Virginia Tech?

[Seanwins]

I received the following notification from my school by email.

This message is being sent to all Faculty, Staff, and Students with the approval of the UW Police Department.

Timely Warning Notification of a Criminal Incident November 5, 2007
Threat to Law School Community

This message to members of the University community is being sent in the interest of public safety and in compliance with federal law requiring timely warning notification of crimes committed on or near campus.

The University of Washington Police Department is investigating a threat directed at Law School Students and the University of Washington Law School. The threat was in the form of a graffiti message written on a wall in the Allen Library. The message indicated that the person(s) intended to commit an act of violence with the use of a weapon. The time period stated in the graffiti was vague, but reference was made to the month of November.

There is no information indicating a threat to the rest of campus.

Additional security measures are in place at the Gates Law School. A police officer is assigned to the building to visually observe those entering the building. The building is restricted to the faculty and staff of the Law School, UW Law School Students, and those who have classes within the building. All are required to use their Husky Card for access. Although it is unknown if the threat is real we are taking these precautions to protect our campus community.

Anyone seeing suspicious activity in or around the Law School is asked to call 911 immediately.

I appreciate the notification and I'm glad they are taking steps to secure the law building, but without a metal detector a BG could walk right in with a weapon. It sounds like there will be one cop monitoring the building with students coming and going from multiple exits at will. Chances are good the threat comes from another student which renders 90% of this security plan useless.

I wonder how many students a BG could waste before that cop can haul ass upstairs and stop him. I am not impressed by the security measures. I really wish I could carry on campus. This isn't the first email like this I have received. I feel like the school has learned from the Virginia Tech shooting, but not really. How many tragedies will it take? I somehow doubt that someone who wanted to carry out a successful attack would advertise it beforehand but this stuff still makes me nervous.

When will responsible law-abiding citizens be allowed to carry on campus?

 

[Thernlund]

I really wish I could carry on campus.

Ohhh... you CAN. I would.

How many tragedies will it take?

When will responsible law-abiding citizens be allowed to carry on campus?

Don't hold your breath.

I think a student who disobeys the carrying rule, and then puts a madman down before he can kill 32 people might be what it takes. Not more victims. The more of those there are, the less likely they are to lift the rule.


-T.

 

[yesit'sloaded]

Rights are not given by the constitution. They are given to man by the creator, the constitution merely recognizes these rights. When society figures this out it will be a good thing.

 

[Funderb]

you should carry on campus.
But...
Don't be stupid about it. Don't carry it in places where you will get caught.
Don't even tell your best friends. No one but you can know.
Put it in a pocket of a pack, mag aside, that you don't use, and
don't open that pocket ever. Cut off the zipper tabs if need be.
Essentially you do are not carrying until the time when some crazy **** decides to go VT style. Then do me and everyone a favor and make them less alive. That is the only time the firearm touches air outside of your locked room with only you in it for inspection, cleaning and matinence.
This may seem like you are a BG, the way you have to do it, but if it saves a life, it's worth it.

 

[Zundfolge]

I appreciate the notification and I'm glad they are taking steps to secure the law building, but without a metal detector a BG could walk right in with a weapon.

How does the metal detector STOP a bad guy? I seriously doubt they're using MRI sized electromagnets in these metal detectors.

Whats to stop the bad guy from killing the metal detector operator?

Oh boy, the metal detector alarm goes off ... big deal, when the shooting starts I guarantee you the badguy's gun is going to be louder.




The one "security measure" with the highest probability of success is armed would-be victims. Period.

 

[MD_Willington]

Same BS over here at WSU

 

[Seanwins]

Zundfolge: True, but at least there would be an armed police officer in the immediate vicinity when that happened. If he comes after me in a classroom I'm trapped like a rat. The cops would have to climb three flights of stairs and to my end of the building. Oh I could jump out of a three story window.....

Seriously though, a metal detector would doubtless be an added step of protection that might keep a BG from entering undetected.

P.S. Your sarcasm was really funny! It made you look smart.

 

[frankie_the_yankee]

Great. Now every idiot university bureaucrat is going to cover their fannies with idiotically vague text messages. "There might be an attack sometime this month. Exercise caution at all times." Or similar drivel.

Get a lightweight revolver like a S&W Scandium model. Load it with 38 spl +P. Don't tell anyone you bought it or that you have it. Get a CHL if you can. Don't tell anyone about this either. Stash it away somewhere where it remains within reach. Don't let anyone find out that you have it.

 

[Seanwins]

I do have a Concealed Pistol License and a CZ P-01 9mm and I carry it everywhere. Except school.

 

[Outlaws]

Just don't be that moron with the Glock who had his pistol go off inside his backpack. Was it holstered? I would assume not. But it shot a girl if I recall.

 

[gc70]

I feel like the school has learned from the Virginia Tech shooting

Oh yes, they have learned. They have learned to carpet the campus with warnings and notices on the slightest pretext so that if anything does happen, they will have a greater chance to cover their bureaucratic backsides.

When will responsible law-abiding citizens be allowed to carry on campus?

Don't hold your breath waiting for permission from the bureaucrats. Statistically, a large number of armed students are more likely to have a few embarrassing accidents than the probability of the school having a rare VT-style incident. The bureaucrats can't do anything about VT-style wackos, but they can do something about armed students.

 

[strat81]

Join the club. Stupid University of Nebraska is a victim disarmament zone and also has a delightful notification system.

 

[Thernlund]

Great. Now every idiot university bureaucrat is going to cover their fannies with idiotically vague text messages. "There might be an attack sometime this month. Exercise caution at all times." Or similar drivel.

Yeah. Won't be long before we have a national color-coded system to determine the chances of an attack on campus.

"This week we have an orange campus alert. Stay aware of your surroundings at all times and call 911 immediately if a lunatic puts a gun to your temple."


-T.

 

[yesit'sloaded]

Do you guys remember when we were saying "Will it be another Pearl High School" and then "Will it be Another Columbine"? This junk is going to keep happening until we get fed up to the point of telling school administrators to stuff it. I don't mean students carrying illegally, I mean parents refusing to send kids to schools that don't allow for students to protect themselves. Vote with your pocketbook, it is the only thing they understand. If you are a donating alum, stop giving to the school and let them know why. Don't attend sporting events at the school, once again let them know why. When they start losing money and shootings are still happening on top of that, they will finally get it.

 

[Oana]

If you choose to carry (a decision which you shouldn't be posting on the forum, should you be tempted), bear in mind that IF it is discovered, you run a very serious risk of being accused of being a potential shooter, since they have a stated threat and of course, "why else would you be carrying a gun!" As the others have said, keep it very, very hidden. And know whether you'd just be violating campus regs, which is one thing, or state/federal regs, which is another.

Three-story building? A nice long rope and something to anchor it with could come in handy.

 

[TexasRifleman]

You'd probably get in less trouble with a gun on you than if you wore body armor if the story we saw last week out of Florida is any indication......

Be safe.

 

[Prince Yamato]

I mean parents refusing to send kids to schools that don't allow for students to protect themselves.

That's not really plausible, as Utah can't sustain that many students nor do that many people want to move to Utah.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Will it be another Virginia Tech?

This is why schools may not like making these sorts of warnings because people are apt to jump to conclusions. Will it be another VT? Well, gee, the only information about the supposedly possible upcoming event in a vague bit of graffiti. It could be another VT, another UT, another Hiroshima, or just graffiti.

Rights are not given by the constitution. They are given to man by the creator, the constitution merely recognizes these rights. When society figures this out it will be a good thing.

Ah, a quote from one from the "There is God's Law and Man's Law" gallery. While it is believed that the creator is all powerful, strangely, the creator's creations are able to be manipulated by man at man's will. The critical thing to remember here is that the creator will not use his powers to get you out of jail, won't testify for you, and won't overturn your conviction if you are found breaking man's laws.

You can justify to yourself whatever you want about supernatural gifts to the human species by a creator, but the fact remains that regardless of who created or gives rights, the buck stops with who carries out justice.

 

[jefnvk]

How many attacks have had a graffiti warning written before they happened?

 

[The_Shootist]

Well

I'm not one to encourage anyone to break the law where carrying on campus is not allowed. I guess we have to decide what threat level in the environments we move is acceptable.

Still, I just have this nagging feeling that one reasonably proficient student CHL holder with a .38 snub could have dealt with Cho at VT. If not dispatch him outright then at least obtain a good solid hit that would have bought some time.

Oh boy - THEN you would have seen the debate get animated . Law abiding CHL holder clearly stoppping nutcase rampage? I'd pay money to see the aftermath

 

[illspirit]

I am not impressed by the security theatre.

Fixed that typo for you.

On a more serious note, given the timing and the vague nature of the "threat," I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if it's just a matter of someone scribbling the Guy Fawkes poem on a wall and a clueless professor (hopefully not of history..) flipped out.

 

[willbrink]

Speaking of VT tech, law school, and such, after VT Tech, proff Olson said:

"A terrible tragedy. I know, I teach on college campus.

Once he starts to act, the only thing that can stop a single, psychotic killer who is willing to die is the rapid delivery of counter fire by whoever is near. Cop, civilian, it doesn't matter who or their job status. The more people who are nearby and capable of delivering return fire, the fewer and less serious the injuries (there's criminological data on this).

Virginia Tech. is a "gun free" zone guaranteeing that the psychotic killer had the only gun. He came prepared. He waited until there were no police in sight and then commenced his murderous acts certain that he would encounter no effective resistance. And , he didn't.

Twenty-one innocent dead because there was no one capable of fighting back. All they could do was cower or run."

Professor Joseph Olson, J.D., LL.M.
Hamline University School of Law

 

[yesit'sloaded]

It isn't just about guns either, it is the whole victim sheep mentality. Nobody at Columbine or VT had defensive wounds with the exception of a professor that put his body behind a door. If a class of 50 fights back against one or two guys with guns, they are going to win. There will be casualties, but they will win.

 

[Browning]

Probably, but the college staff and the government won't learn anything from it.

Except guns are evil and that only the police and the military should have that is. More innocent blood will run in college classrooms because the Socialists/Liberals among us don't want people to be able to effectively protect themselves.

Plus nowdays people are always advised to not fight back, to just submit to the criminal and hope that he (or she) goes away and that he (or she) doesn't kill you because you complied with them. You can see how well that worked out for those students, they just got slaughtered like sheep cowering under their desks.

 

[ZeSpectre]

Rights are not given by the constitution. They are given to man by the creator, the constitution merely recognizes these rights. When society figures this out it will be a good thing.

The Constitution places limitations on the government and lists items that are "hands off" as far as the government is concerned.

without a metal detector a BG could walk right in with a weapon

A metal detector is a "feel good" item that accomplishes almost nothing without a "mantrap" type enclosure. It's kinda like the "idiot lights" on your dashboard that tell you your engine is in trouble...after the damage has already been done.

I feel like the school has learned from the Virginia Tech shooting, but not really.

I'm with the "not really" as most schools still insist on implementing "feel good" measures that look nice to the visiting parents (See what we've done to make your kids "feel safe") but ultimately don't do much.

When will responsible law-abiding citizens be allowed to carry on campus?

Well, what have -you- done towards that goal? It's nice to ask what others are doing, but even nicer to grab hold of the rope and lend a little "elbow grease" to the project yourself.