Will the United States survive until 2022?

Status
Not open for further replies.
The US is a very large country and has a great deal of cultural momentum going. The country isn't going anywhere anytime soon. Will it change? Of course it will and maybe not for the better.

It would take some major outside influences to make something happen in the next 10 years. Besides, as much as the rest of the world hates us, if we fall apart, the rest of the world won't be so well off either.
 
It's not like the States had the sole authority under the 10th Amendment to govern slavery (or abolish it) on their own with no Federal interference anyway, right?

No State, polity, individual or group of individuals of any description has any authentic authority to govern, administer, or in any way create or sustain slavery.

Period.

End of Story.


The Constitution remained silent on the issue, only implying consent as the compromise for its very existence.

The States which allowed slavery wielded Powers that no one rightly has, and claims of 10th amendment protection is thin, swiss cheese cover indeed.


Now as to the question the author poses, I'll give it a read.

In general, I believe the USA will continue to exist as a primary planetary political entity.

The underlying question is whether that entity will retain any authentiticity of American Character, or whether it will become degenerate.

Nonetheless, there is a deep optimisim beneath my cynicism on such issues.


attachment.php
 

Attachments

  • AmericanFlag_2076.jpg
    AmericanFlag_2076.jpg
    78.4 KB · Views: 311
All that was necessary for evil to triumph was that good men did nothing.

They didn't read.

They didn't believe.

They threw out the B.S. 'tinfoil hat' accusation when they were shown to be ignorant, or refused to go where the logic led them, only because it offended their sensibilities or political or historical misconceptions.

They continued to trust in politicians of the party of their preference lie after lie, after lie, after lie.

They didn't believe their government, their military, or their institutions were capable of great evil, great deception, and diabolical intent for the benefit of small groups of evil men.

They continued to confuse someone who claimed to be of a religion with someone who was decent and honorable.

They refused to question the contradictions that appeared day after day and figured, "Well, things just HAPPEN."

They thought "The school system is screwed up big time, but MY kid's school and teachers are okay."

Instead of reading about their history, they spent their time in front of the lobotomy box and became stupid.

They didn't get MAD AS HELL and took it some more.

They waited for ANOTHER MAN with the guts to take the first shot and lay his life on the line. (Guilty)

They continued to spout blood oaths to a piece of cloth instead of demanding their leaders follow THEIR oaths to protect the constitution against ALL ENEMIES, FOREIGN OR DOMESTIC (including the those in the military).

They spouted B.S. about "...the lesser of two evils..." as if such a platitude actually meant they were doing something honorable or worthwhile.

And then they woke up....and discovered it had all gone away, as if in a dream and they were just waking.

"How could this have happened?", the false patriots asked themselves.

Well, welcome to the 21st century in the SHELL of what used to be a great country.
 
No. We won't survive as the country we are. We aren't the country we were. In some ways that is a good thing. As has been pointed out Jim Crow and slavery sucked big time.

The thing to remember is this. The fundamentals of what the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution, and the Bill or Rights mean. What is their spirit?

The Declaration of Independence tells governments when it is time for a people to throw them off. It sets up the principles by which free men live, and when those people have the duty to dissolve that government.

The Constitution is a document which allows the most freedom for the most people within the cultural, and geographic realities of this nation. And the Bill of Rights declares the rights of ALL people. Universal, and inalienable.

As things stand, there are many forces in the world threatening all of those principles. Some are far away, some are in our schools, our churches, synagogues, and mosques, and temples. Some are from politicians, some from teachers, some from co-workers, and friends or acquaintances.

The things this article talks about. Multi-culturalism, an agreed seperation of white and black society, fourth-gen warfare, all are death knells for the US as we know it.

And the comments of Josey W are the greatest threat of all. Complacency, even of our most ardent patriots. If even the most ardent amongst us do nothing, then a dark future will descend upon us all.

I don't know how this will all end. But I know how it began. It began when we decided we didn't want to act for ourselves. It began when we decided to let the government save for our retirements. It began when we decided to let the government print fiat currency backed by debt. It began when we allowed corporations to have more rights than living, breathing people, and it began when we decided that we weren't going to punish that government when it failed, and take back our rights, and more importantly, our responsibilities.

In my generation, many of us don't know how to run without the government, but there are undercurrents of descent. Many of us know the government's prerogatives under the drug war, and foreign policy often are unpure, and controlling.

We know Social Security won't be there for us.

Many of us also know that corporations using government power to get things which they couldn't obtain in the market to be wrong.

We aren't at the "punishing" stage yet. Many people in my generation are still in a state of despair, and lack hope. We are generation "y." As my best friend's sister likes to say, "That stands for "Y care? It isn't gonna do anything."

But I believe that when the economic house of cards built on government debt and corporate profit at any cost collapses, when the government's fraudulent retirement scheme fails, and we are cut off from the things we love, many of us will be angry. We will look for who did this, and if the right people are there to point us in the right direction, there can be a restoration.

But, I doubt that restoration will be the whole country. I doubt it will be all of us. I think different people will see different problems, and different solutions, and different regions of the country will use different methods to run themselves.

When that happens, well, who knows?

As I said, I don't know how this will end, I only know how it began.
 
Bouis said:
...if the South had been allowed to free the slaves, and grant them civil rights, without Northern interference.

I don't know the answer, but I'll ask a couple of my Black friends how long they can hold their breath...
 
Phetro said:
1)When America was free...
2)It's not like the States had the sole authority under the 10th Amendment to govern slavery (or abolish it) on their own with no Federal interference anyway, right?

What diametrically opposed statements...who's free in your nostalgic America? The state government to impose arbitrary, cruel, and tyrannical laws upon a portion of its population?

Or are you referring to the free America of the late 18th and early 19th centuries where citizens were free to choose their government and do as they pleased without state or federal intrusion unless they were unfortunate enough to be born with melanocytes, or, say, a uterus?
 
I don't know what the Civil War has to do with it,but who is better off TODAY?The decendents ofthe FORMER slaves,or the decendents of the people who have lived in the places that the former slaves decendents were bought at?
Just wondering???

992
 
I think ultimately what we folks want is universal liberty comparable to that enjoyed by an 18th century landowner in the context of an advanced technological society that includes top flight medical care.

Remember, people used to die of all sorts of stupid stuff that most of us have survived without drama using the modern pharmacopia.
 
992, a very small percentage of southerners were slaveowners, at least in the ownership of more than one or maybe two. The majority of all whites owned no slaves.

So, when you start figuring in white sharecroppers and "hillbillies" and other small-town, low-income folks, I'd have to say that almost all of today's America is better off. Even our "poverty" people have beer, cigarettes and cars.

Art
 
Remember, people used to die of all sorts of stupid stuff that most of us have survived without drama using the modern pharmacopia.

They did, indeed.

But millions of people who wouldn't otherwise be on earth at all, thanks to the "advances" of Civilization, are now dying of the corollaries of those advances. More are dying today than would have died from the lack of the advances in the past.

Of course, with billions more people now on earth, the "pruning" in the future could well be rather dramatic.
 
People are, it seems, on average much better off. True enough. So it seems.

I'm not going to romanticize the past, especially for the huge percentage of mankind that has lived in a serf-like condition for the past ten thousand years of "civilization."

But today's comfortable American is probably not that well psychically. A hefty percentage of Americans are, in one form or the other, addicts, and I really have to wonder if the 21st century consumer lifestyle is all it's cracked up to be. Most of us on this forum clearly have a hankering for liberties that belong to a previous time and place. We've watched the rise of corporate life over the last century erase almost all of what the Founding Fathers' original vision was--yes, they go together--and we can only shudder at what lies before us.
 
I just figgered that the great,great,great grandchildren of the slaves,might just have a better life HERE in America,than they would have if their people had of been left alone,where ever they were from.
Sorta like the end result may make the trip less nasty.I don't know,as I am not decended from slaves,nor slave owners.But I am a southern hillbilly,all my life,and hope to remain so the rest of my days.
As for the country being here untill 2022?
I think it will,but it may not be America,at least not the America that I love.
Does anybody remember the song",American Pie'?


992
 
"...drove my Chevy to the levy but the levy was dry..."

Yes, I do.

Biker
 
them good ole boys

drinking whiskey and rye, singing this 'll be the day .....

brings back some good memories of my early childhood, my parents were young farmers running from the corporate man, the finest examples of an American hippie :neener: Guns n all, man I love my Dad. I lived way out in the woods in a nice house....had my little record player.

"And in the streets: the children screamed,
The lovers cried, and the poets dreamed.
But not a word was spoken;
The church bells all were broken.
And the three men I admire most:
The father, son, and the holy ghost,
They caught the last train for the coast"
 
There are plenty of problems with America today. Namely with the popular culture, which breeds ignorance. The political world is a well organized nightmare, just thinking about it brings on a seething rage. That being said, there are plenty of good people left; there are still plenty of interesting places to go and people to meet. The hunting’s still good. If you find yourself becoming discouraged, a trip to the wilderness is a great reminder of why your alive.
 
I find such pleas for the good old days usually based on those who were from the priviledged communities. Not being from one, I have little sympathy for those who whine about the changing nature of our population or the granting of basic rights.

Years ago, my family suffered from allowable discrimination until new laws were passed and court decisions disallowed such. I teach races that were forbidden to go to the schools where I have worked. Good old days - right. Women were forbidden overtly or covertly to get certain educations or get certain jobs.

Folks complain about multiculturism but complain about new immigrants not of their ethnic or racial preference coming to the USA.

Those who rant about immigrants, the Civil War, etc. - blah
 
I grew up an Army Brat, GEM, hardly well to do nor insulated from other cultures. Your generalisms reek of the same bigotry you accuse others of displaying.
You might re-think your statement...

Biker
 
So... because the past wasn't "perfect", we have no right to complain about today? We should be happy to trade in our liberty for a slightly longer lifespan and better medical care? :rolleyes: Howzat work???
 
So... because the past wasn't "perfect", we have no right to complain about today? We should be happy to trade in our liberty for a slightly longer lifespan and better medical care? Howzat work???

This is not my idea of liberty.
dogs.jpg


Gimme a break. What we're saying is all you guys wishing for the good ol' days are conveniently forgetting how things werent so good for other Americans. There are a lot of people who seem to have an overly romantic view of this country's history on this board though. Bad stuff happened man.

I'd much rather live in the social climate of today than live in Lousiana 40 years ago when my dad was growing up.. Of course I'm black so my perspective and understanding of the good ol days is a little different.
 
At the University of Michigan, one of these guys printed off some of my columns and pinned them on the student notice board, trying to get my invitation canceled. Emails went out from the department head—I know, because I had a “mole” in the university—telling students and faculty that, basically, although I was a nutty crypto-fascist hyena, the university’s tradition of hospitality and open-mindedness could just about be stretched to include me, and people shouldn’t try to shout me down.

This doesn't surprise me at all. The political climate at most universities is liberal, but at U of M, it's ultra-liberal. :barf: It makes my skin crawl. If you have a dissenting, non-extremist-liberal viewpoint at U of M, they'll boycott you, protest you, insult you, and probably sue you. Yet your average blue collar Joe in MI wears University of Michigan apparel all the time, all the while ignorant of the fact that by default people are supporting an institution with extremist liberal beliefs (which likely conflict with some of their own) without realizing it.
 
No one is saying that slavery is good.
No one is saying that racism is good.

The issue that was originally raised with regard to the "good ole days" was one of states rights. The point was that the civil war did two big things. It ended slavery(but not racism) and it ened the previous paradigm, which had existed for a good 90 years, that held the Union to be a union between the several States, and not a State of its own.

Whether and how slavery would have ended had the south not tried to secede is the topic of another discussion.

But on the note if States rights, I feel it is important to note that we should apply what we have learned here to the current system in Europe where the EU is showing more and more control over its member states.

By the time people bury the weapons, they've already surrendered. I sincerely hope no one does that.
Don't think for a second that people in New Jersy and Cali have not done just that. Most people are smart enough to realise registration leads to prohibition/seizures. Drawing and holding a line is the hard part.
 
"States rights" can go to hell if it's used to justify enslaving other men or limiting their civil/human rights.

And no, I dont think the South would have "come around" had the Union let them be. All the way up into the 60's they were still fighting integration and everything else. States Rights was a great little euphemism for white supremacy.

True story.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top