Will the United States survive until 2022?

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Is it the America our forefathers envisioned? Nowhere close. Is it still the best damned place to live in the world? Hell yes.

The above statement is really more a condemnation of how horrible the rest of the world is, not on how great America is. America is a dim shadow of it's former self. Like an aging movie star far past it's prime but unwilling to admit it won't get anymore prime roles and subsisting on memories. Always seeking the latest rejuvenation technique to restore the long lost youth and vitality.
Not realizing that our youth and vitality were sold in exchange for material wealth and comfort. The rewards we enjoy now were paid for with the freedoms we sold decades ago. It was a slow and insidious process but the results now bear this out. We are no longer free and we are no longer young and vibrant. We have lost it all in the pursuit of the easy life when if we had stayed the course we would still have our freedoms and our vibrancy as a nation. We have allowed our heritage to be sold to the highest bidder, the
slickest politician, the media mogul with the most adept spin. What a shame.
 
jnojr said:
So... because the past wasn't "perfect", we have no right to complain about today?

No, you're now arguing a completely different point...I don't think almost anyone on TheHighRoad disagrees with the sentiment in your statement. You have every right to complain about current state of freedom and its loss.

What many of us are having trouble with is all this heralding back to the "good old days" of freedom which were not so free for a segment of the American population, namely American Indians, East Indian-American Indians, Asian-Americans, African-Americans, anyone with a dark tan, the Irish, and ... I just know I forgetting someone ... oh yeah ... women.

What would be nice is to restore to everyone some of the liberties enjoyed by late 18th early 19th century land-owning American-European males without reintroducing a system where those individuals were free to buy people while earning Frequent Flyer miles on their MasterCards...
 
crazed_ss, I'm black and white, and much of my family is from the South. I've thought long and hard about the issues you are talking about.

For you to say that state's rights is a euphemism for slavery is both inaccurate, and unfair.

For the mainly white members here to post about the good ole days without acknowledging the downside of Jim Crow, and share cropping is also inaccurate, and unfair.

What plagued the US from the inception of the nation until very recently is that the principles of the Bill of Rights, the Declaration of Independence, and the CONUS were unevenly applied to different Americans. Basically, to those of us with more melanin or unteruses this wasn't the Life of Riley that it was for a white Anglo-Saxon Protestant.

But, the US is different from that world. Now, we have the ability to accept that your religion, your skin colour, and your sex are irrelevant to how much liberty you should have.

So, the question you have to ask is this.

Now that there are forces in the world, in the US that want to strip us of the BOR, the CONUS, and the Declaration of Independence. That wish to take it's prtinciples and deny them to all Americans regardless of race, creed, religion, etc. where do you want to stand?

If it's between state's rights in our present world, and keeping the principles (regardless of who they applied to in the past), or chucking them in favor of the Brave New World promised under various political and business forces in our modern world, if it's between increasing liberty, and personal responsibility or chucking them in favour of government powers, I'm gonna side with the people who want states to have rights.

That's that.
 
The US became a global empire after the Spanish-American War. After that
came the evils of income taxes, a more centralized powerful fedgov, the
protection of our "global strategic interests" (defined entirely by banks,
corporations and their think-tank front orgs).....oh yeah, and a whoooole
bunch of gun control laws.
 
Yeah I think it will. Of course it wont remian static, it will change. I think the biggest thing that GW has done for they way people like us would like to see things done is his appts to the supreme court. They will be around for a while.

When I comes down to a "Red Dawn" type of invasion and within a generation seeing our way of life and liberty stripped...of course not.

Can I see it modified in a way where I will tell my grandchildren stories about the way it used to be...absouluty...that has already happened.

Im 35...when I was in the 8th grade, I took my compound bow into school and did an instuctive speech on its use....They would call the SWAT team out for that these days.

I remember when I was 15 or so, my buddies would pack up our shotguns and strap them on our back and ride accross town (a medium sized blue collar town) and go dove hunting on the way, we would stop at Kmart and buy a few boxes of shells (maybe four or five boxes...who am I kidding)....that wouldnt happen today...those kids would be stopped and arrested.

My youngest boy in the second grade got in a a verbal altercation with a classmate and the word "stab" was used by both of them...they were both hauled down to the principals office and I was called. The principal asked informed me of the situation (hes not a liberal dirtbag, he is however, governed by them) and asked me if he thought my son was capable of carrying out that threat...interested at what he was getting at I politely asked him to cut to the chase...of course my boy is physically capable of stabbing someone...mentally...ive raised him to not be afraid and to protect himself...do I think we would stab someone...NO! Well thats not the answer he was looking for...he himmed and hawwed and then asked me if there were any knives in the house...I kind of laughed...and said..um yes. And then he kind of chuckled and said...."anything other than eating utensiles?" I kind of stopped and the phone got real quite...I said "are you serious, are you getting around to asking me if I have weapons in the house?" He said "yes".....YES! Twenty years ago, that question would have been a given, and would not have needed to be asked. Today...in a fairly conservitive town, and as far as public schools go...a conservitive school. I told the man..."we probably shouldnt get into that discussion"...He replied that we was required to inquire to find out if the threat of my little boy stabbing another little boy should be taken seriously. I told him that I was taking it seriously and I would take care of it on my end, as for his "inquiry" I told him he was overstepping his bounds...again..very contrite, he replied that he was only doing what was required of him. This isnt the best part. Later his teacher called me. We have had a very constructive relationship regarding communication about my sons academic activity (hes very bright), and she has helped me immensly as Im a single father raising two boys. She kind of rehashed what the principle had said and added that she didnt think my son was serious, she just thought the two boys got carried away with theyre argument....Then she added.........If we thought your son was capable of carrying out these threats we would have the police search your house for weapons!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I choked on my coffee when she said this and kind of blurbled out....ARE YOU SERIOUS???? She really didnt know what to say at my response...she just kind of stumblem over her words and I told her. "We have met on numerous occasions, I feel like you know me fairly well, youve had both of my sons in your class, I have great respect for your compassion and ability to teach children, but know this about me...the police will not search my house without due process and if due process ever comes about for whatever earth shattering reason...it wont take them long to find a weapon" She was back peddling pretty hard by now and I continued "Im not a violent man, I teach my kids that violence should be used as a very last resort. You should know better than to tell me that you will have the police search my house for weapons because of what two little 7 yr olds were over heard talking about out on the playground..your out of line, further more, you know that I hunt, you know that my kids go hunting with me, my oldest shared pictures of his first hunt with the class, Im frankly suprised that you dont take is as granted that there are weapons in my house" She was very apologetic at my apparant offense. I told her that it was really no harm done, but she should maybe temper the what she tells parents when she is confronted with this sort of thing. Later in the convo, again this wasnt heated, I didnt raise my voice, she mentioned that the other kids dad was concerned that my son would carry out the threat and mentioned that he has overheard the boys talk about me, shooting, hunting etc...and was fearful that I would intervene somehow. He also mentioned, evidently that he had no way to protect himself and needed some reassurance that there would be no repercussion....I felt like saying...."I think everyone is over reacting here". I think over reaction is the norm these days.

So yes this country is changing. Will it still exist...or do I think it will collapse like the USSR did...no. It wont be the same, but it will exist.
 
I think the United States, like the Soviet Union, will go bankrupt and we will end up with something completely different than what the Founding Fathers envisioned.

Here it is over 200 years since our republic's founding, and government still hasn't been able to decide what tax rate is sufficient to take care of 'business' without raping the taxpayer. Everywhere you look, someone in government is trying to figure out where he can squeeze a few more dollars out of the taxpayer. At the same time, the people are trying to squeeze a few more government benefits out of the public treasury at someone else's expense.

Pilgrim
 
Thin Black Line said:
One of Heston's movies was set there:
Funny you should mention Soylent Green. It seems to have the best depiction of what the future will actually be like. Tons of people everywhere, lying all over the place with nothing to do, everything is broken, and no one can fix anything.

It's already like that in Los Angeles...

well...without all the people eating...
 
The US became a global empire after the Spanish-American War. After that
came the evils of income taxes, a more centralized powerful fedgov, the
protection of our "global strategic interests" (defined entirely by banks,
corporations and their think-tank front orgs).....oh yeah, and a whoooole
bunch of gun control laws.

On the mark. Well, we wanted to be imperial, and we were. For a while. Oldest temptation in the world.

The day of Soylent Green is coming. We just haven't sorted out yet who exactly will be eating whom.
 
Im 35...when I was in the 8th grade, I took my compound bow into school and did an instuctive speech on its use....They would call the SWAT team out for that these days.

+1. When I was a kid, the school parking lot had plenty of cars with
shotguns in the trunk during hunting season --both staff AND students.
No one even blinked, no one panicked. NO ONE WAS EVER SHOT at
school or in the school parking lot.

During home-coming week, we had various dress-up days. One was army
day. People carried practice grenades, ammo belts (blanks), bayonets.
There's a picture of me in the yearbook at school with a WWI 16" Bayonet
(out of the scabbard!) in one hand and a defused grenade in the other. :D
 
Of course, there's the elephant in the living room.

The elephant named Values.

They've changed folks, and most Americans, in all strata, really don't want to bother to figure out why.
 
"What do we have, a monarchy or a Republic?"

"A Republic if you can keep it."

We dont have either...
By the time people bury the weapons, they've already surrendered. I sincerely hope no one does that.
IF its time to bury them......its time to use them
America is a dim shadow of it's former self
.....I have often said the same....that america is just a shell of its former self.....the 60's socialism cancer is eating it from the inside out.
 
McCALL 911 - "After all, the Mayan calendar stops at the year 2012!"

That's because the Mayans couldn't count to 2013. :D :D

L.W.
 
As a political entity, with fireworks every July? Absolutely.. for centuries to come most likely.

As anything like the founders intended.... to 2022 yes I think so. Not too much worse than now anyhow.
To 2222... there I'm not so certain.

Certainly presently we have our share of vapidness. But then, we had the same in 1939, but proved to be made of much sterner stuff than anyone counted on. Same thing will happen again. Yes, it will take more than one attack of 9/11 magnitude... but at this point, I'm fairly certain it will happen again sooner or later.

-K
 
I think just as we look back at the 1860's as a time when citizen DID revolt against an overbearing government (not that I'm a fan of slavery), eventually we'll look back at Kelo vs. New london as a time when we SHOULD have revolted.


I think that honestly, in the end, thats the keystone.
 
Kelo? Yes, but we'll have plenty more chances. Expect property taxes and payroll taxes to rise geometrically to pay for the cost of "comprehensive reform" and "totalization," among other give-aways.
 
In many ways I believe already the US won't exist in 2022 as it does now. If it is up to the pols, we will be a sub-unit of the North American Union.

The only way to stop that is to have patriots sitting in state assemblies.

Then, for those states to say, "There will be no taxes given to the central government."

You think that's impossible? That the states are too dependent on the federal government for that to happen? Wrong.

Just wait. When the dollar collapses, and the housing market truly collapses, it will be incredibly easy.
 
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