Carl Levitian
member
Okay, in the few days after my incident at bagel pass, I've been doing a lot of thinking, and experimenting.
People are saying a knife is a poor weapon, and for most of my life I also went in that direction. But when something happened that I was faced with an extrodinary opponant, I went for a knife over a stick. Something I thought I'd never do. How would a sharp knife work out in real life against a younger stronger assailant? You hear all the time "They'll take it away from you and use it on you" kind of thing. But will they, outside of a Steven Sagal movie with a script?
Last night, some members of my family did some on the fly experimenting. Myself as the control factor, my son-in-law John, who is a state parole agent, my granddaughter Christy who is a mid teens lacross and soccer player. And a bright blue dry erase magic marker.
Myself and John donned some protective eye wear, and I took the magic marker, and John, who is 6 foot 2 or so and 250 something pounds, was going to take it from me. Now keep in mind, part of John's career is dealing with convicted felons, and he's had a good deal of training on holds, take downs, and general hand to hand and stick work. He's strong as a bull from his wieghts he does.
John took me down in after abut 30 seconds of dancing around each of us trying to get an advantage. I was outclassed and he had me down pretty quick and he got control over my right arm and hand in about 30 to 45 seconds.
But,
When we got up and looked, he had bright blue streaks across the back of his right hand. inside his wrist, across the biceps, and across the face and down the side of the neck. I hate to think if that magic marker had been a real sharp Opinel or even a box cutter. Some of those areas have some pretty important tendons and nerves in there. He got me down, but if it had been for real, could he have still operated with vital tendons and mussle tissue cut? Not to mention the side of his neck where his carrotid is.
It got more interesting when Christy got her hands on the marker, and told her dad to come on, try to get her. It actually took John longer to get a hold on her as she's pretty fast dodging and weaving. He got her by the right wrist, but judging by the blues lines all over John, he got butchered up doing it. Hands, wrists, face, neck, looked bad. Considering that Christy has had zero knife training, I thought that was pretty scary. Just a fast young person slashing away.
Now I fooled around with the martial arts back in the late 70's, and all the disarms we were taught, were long telegraphed moves with a degree of co-operation between training partners in a well lit dojo. What will happen out on the street in real life when someone goes to defend themselves with a knife, and its for real, and the knife is really sharp and in the hands of someone who has very serious intent on harming thier attacker?
Early in our marrige, being a young couple short on money, Karen took a night job while I was home from work and watching the kids, as a dance and exersise instructor at the local rec center. Having been a proffesional dancer when I met her, it was right up her alley.
One night about 9 PM after classes, she was walking out to her car, and was gropping arond in her purse for her keys. A man grabbed her from behind with one hand over her mouth and started to drag her toward the woods at the back of the lot. Karen, being all of 5 foot 3 inches and having to stuff some rolls of quarters in her pockets to reach 120 pounds, was easy to pick up and walk away with. Or so the guy thought.
Karen, being from Harlingen Texas right on the border, and Mexican on her mothers side, was well schooled by a maternal uncle when in her teens on how to use a sliding blade Stanley utility knife. When she was grabbed, she already had one hand in her purse, so she grabbed the utility knife and opened up the guys arm from wrist to almost elbow. He was pretty quick to let go of her and run off. They later found him at the local ER where he was claiming he was mugged, untill Karen ID's him.
The guy made no attempt to take the knife away from her, just beat a trail out of there fast. Another woman we know who used to be 'exotic dancer' in a bad part of D.C. carried a box cutter as her little ace. One night two guys tried to grab her, and she'd been trained to go for hands. Both guys took off, after a few cuts on the hands. Kate went on about her business. Kate is about the same size as Karen.
Now niether of these small women had any trouble driving off attackers who were much larger and stronger than them, and no attempt was made to try to get the cutter away from them, even in the case where it was two to one.
Fast forward to a couple of days ago, and one senior citizen with a sharp Opinel against a 30ish body builder, and the mere threat of being sliced or stabbed stopped the whole thing. The only training I had was when I was 19 years old at Ft. Dix New Jersey knife and bayonet training while at basic training. Been a lot of water under the bridge since then.
I know things get repeated on the 'net, but has anyone really know of a person getting a knife taken away from them? I mean really?
Seems it would be a very risky propostion. A very sharp knife needs only a tiny bit or pressure to slice deep.
Your ideas on the subject gentlemen?
People are saying a knife is a poor weapon, and for most of my life I also went in that direction. But when something happened that I was faced with an extrodinary opponant, I went for a knife over a stick. Something I thought I'd never do. How would a sharp knife work out in real life against a younger stronger assailant? You hear all the time "They'll take it away from you and use it on you" kind of thing. But will they, outside of a Steven Sagal movie with a script?
Last night, some members of my family did some on the fly experimenting. Myself as the control factor, my son-in-law John, who is a state parole agent, my granddaughter Christy who is a mid teens lacross and soccer player. And a bright blue dry erase magic marker.
Myself and John donned some protective eye wear, and I took the magic marker, and John, who is 6 foot 2 or so and 250 something pounds, was going to take it from me. Now keep in mind, part of John's career is dealing with convicted felons, and he's had a good deal of training on holds, take downs, and general hand to hand and stick work. He's strong as a bull from his wieghts he does.
John took me down in after abut 30 seconds of dancing around each of us trying to get an advantage. I was outclassed and he had me down pretty quick and he got control over my right arm and hand in about 30 to 45 seconds.
But,
When we got up and looked, he had bright blue streaks across the back of his right hand. inside his wrist, across the biceps, and across the face and down the side of the neck. I hate to think if that magic marker had been a real sharp Opinel or even a box cutter. Some of those areas have some pretty important tendons and nerves in there. He got me down, but if it had been for real, could he have still operated with vital tendons and mussle tissue cut? Not to mention the side of his neck where his carrotid is.
It got more interesting when Christy got her hands on the marker, and told her dad to come on, try to get her. It actually took John longer to get a hold on her as she's pretty fast dodging and weaving. He got her by the right wrist, but judging by the blues lines all over John, he got butchered up doing it. Hands, wrists, face, neck, looked bad. Considering that Christy has had zero knife training, I thought that was pretty scary. Just a fast young person slashing away.
Now I fooled around with the martial arts back in the late 70's, and all the disarms we were taught, were long telegraphed moves with a degree of co-operation between training partners in a well lit dojo. What will happen out on the street in real life when someone goes to defend themselves with a knife, and its for real, and the knife is really sharp and in the hands of someone who has very serious intent on harming thier attacker?
Early in our marrige, being a young couple short on money, Karen took a night job while I was home from work and watching the kids, as a dance and exersise instructor at the local rec center. Having been a proffesional dancer when I met her, it was right up her alley.
One night about 9 PM after classes, she was walking out to her car, and was gropping arond in her purse for her keys. A man grabbed her from behind with one hand over her mouth and started to drag her toward the woods at the back of the lot. Karen, being all of 5 foot 3 inches and having to stuff some rolls of quarters in her pockets to reach 120 pounds, was easy to pick up and walk away with. Or so the guy thought.
Karen, being from Harlingen Texas right on the border, and Mexican on her mothers side, was well schooled by a maternal uncle when in her teens on how to use a sliding blade Stanley utility knife. When she was grabbed, she already had one hand in her purse, so she grabbed the utility knife and opened up the guys arm from wrist to almost elbow. He was pretty quick to let go of her and run off. They later found him at the local ER where he was claiming he was mugged, untill Karen ID's him.
The guy made no attempt to take the knife away from her, just beat a trail out of there fast. Another woman we know who used to be 'exotic dancer' in a bad part of D.C. carried a box cutter as her little ace. One night two guys tried to grab her, and she'd been trained to go for hands. Both guys took off, after a few cuts on the hands. Kate went on about her business. Kate is about the same size as Karen.
Now niether of these small women had any trouble driving off attackers who were much larger and stronger than them, and no attempt was made to try to get the cutter away from them, even in the case where it was two to one.
Fast forward to a couple of days ago, and one senior citizen with a sharp Opinel against a 30ish body builder, and the mere threat of being sliced or stabbed stopped the whole thing. The only training I had was when I was 19 years old at Ft. Dix New Jersey knife and bayonet training while at basic training. Been a lot of water under the bridge since then.
I know things get repeated on the 'net, but has anyone really know of a person getting a knife taken away from them? I mean really?
Seems it would be a very risky propostion. A very sharp knife needs only a tiny bit or pressure to slice deep.
Your ideas on the subject gentlemen?
