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tws3b2
Member
Anybody load 125 or 158 gr. xtp using hp38 in 38 spl.
Winchester 231
- Thread starter tws3b2
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ballman6711
Member
I load 38spcl in both the XTP and the FP/XTP in 158gr. My load is 3.9gr of W231. Very mild and accurate in my 6" 357mag revolver. It does leave a bit of soot on the cases, but that cleans off in the tumbler.
chris
sparkyv
Member
HP38/W231 is a very good 9mm powder for beginning reloaders. As others have pointed out, it is quite versitile.
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tws3b2
Member
That's what I was looking for. A mild load for 38 spl snubby. I don't mind a little soot, I clean regularly.
GeoDudeFlorida
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The only thing W231 can’t do well is reach out to long range in revolver loads (“magnums”) safely and still have enough velocity for a clean kill on small-to-medium game. With heavier game bullets, the pressure will spike and become unsafe before the bullet reaches velocity, regardless of barrel length.
As long as your velocity frame is 650-950fps and the bullet weights are in the low-to-mid range for caliber, you will find a W231 load which will perform as well or close to any other pistol powder. There are shotgun powders that work well in pistol loads that can beat W231 for some types of shooting (Red Dot, Blue Dot, 700X, as examples) and there are small bore rifle powders that beat it in others (2400, W296, IMR 4227, as examples); but, as a multipurpose pistol powder, W231 is hard to beat.
I recommend getting a few load books for the calibers you’re interested in and comparing W231 load tables to those of other powders. You really need to get your loads from published sources, not random comments on bulletin boards.
Edit: meant to say Load Books. These folks: http://www.loadbooks.com
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Mostly Lead
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When I started reloading (never mind exactly when, but it was a while ago..) I compared every power via the manuals for what looked to best meet my goals. Then bought as many of those different powders over the years and carefully kept records on their performance, both in the equipment and at the range. When all was said and done: Win 231 for normal loads in every caliber I had, 2400 for heavier .357 Mag and Ruger 45 Colt loads. Have tried other powders along the way of course, mostly due to limited availability, and haven't found any reason to change yet.
Wouldn't cry a minute if 231 was the only powder on my shelf...
Wouldn't cry a minute if 231 was the only powder on my shelf...
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tws3b2
Member
That's what I'm doing. Ballman6711 said he loads 3.9gr of w231, 158gr xtp, 38 spl. I made note of that. I checked it against Hodgdon data sheet. Hodgdon list 3.8gr of w231, 158gr xtp, 38 spl. as a starting point, 4.3 max.
I ask questions and compare. Sometimes I ask stupid questions and sometimes get stupid answers. But, most times I learn something.
2ndtimer
Member
Winchester 231/HP-38 is a good all around powder. Other similar (and slightly less costly) options are Ramshot Zip, Accurate No. 2 and Shooters World Clean Shot.
Mostly Lead
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Don't let yourself get wrapped up in who loads what. For example, I spent a lot of time at the range testing "ladder loads". Ten rounds at x.2 grains, ten rounds at x.4 grains, ten rounds at x.6 grains, etc... Documented all the group sizes, range conditions, load data/case/primer/bullet/etc... Based on hundreds and hundreds of tests, I developed what worked best in "my" gun for "me".
You should expect your results to be different with your gun. Shoot, I'd expect your results to be different using my gun!
Point being, stick within the published min/max ranges from primary sources and develop a load that works for you.
One of my loads for a house gun (2" 38 Special) is a 150 gr. DEWC over a max. load of W231, non +P. I figgered I got 875-900fps with good accuracy out to 12 yards and a .357" flat point may cause a bit of tissue damage...
Careful with heavier loads with a HBWC, it's possible to blow the skirts off and leave debris/lead in the barrel...
Careful with heavier loads with a HBWC, it's possible to blow the skirts off and leave debris/lead in the barrel...
GeoDudeFlorida
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My mistake. I wasn’t clear. When I wrote load books I was referring to these
They are compiled from a variety of sources like the Lee manuals but for a specific cartridge. They let you compare powders and projectiles side-by-side a little easier. I have their T/C Contenders books and they have come in handy several times.
ballman6711
Member
Maybe I should have been more clear and said that 3.9gr of W231 works well for me.
I also like Loadbooks for the specific calibers. Lots of data that can be found in one convenient little book.
chris
I also like Loadbooks for the specific calibers. Lots of data that can be found in one convenient little book.
chris
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tws3b2
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Well, I reloaded my first 38spl. Only 5 to try out.
158gr, xtp @ 1.44 oal, 3.9gn w231.
Guess I will see how they do at the range next trip.
158gr, xtp @ 1.44 oal, 3.9gn w231.
Guess I will see how they do at the range next trip.
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tws3b2
Member
You can see the 3 rounds on the right, the cannelures are not completely covered. I adjusted a little to cover more on the other two. Should the cannelure be completely covered or does it make any real difference?
I'll go to the range tomorrow to try these out. If I don't blow out the cylinder or squib I'll start loading.
I'll go to the range tomorrow to try these out. If I don't blow out the cylinder or squib I'll start loading.
GeoDudeFlorida
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Ideally, the case mouth is turned into the middle of the cannelure, securing the bullet from pushing in or pulling out. Different bullets have different cannelure dimensions and different cases have different brass dimensions so that midpoint can shift a little. The only reason for crimping into the bullet at all is to prevent pressure/impact induced setbacks (the bullet being pushed deeper into the case, raising pressures) and recoil-induced pulls. For any standard-pressure .38Spl load roll crimping is more to prevent setbacks caused in storage than recoil pulling.
TLDR: it’s fine. You don’t really need to crimp .38’s so all good.
AJC1
Member
Crimp prevents movement in different directions depending on what your shooting. In a semiautomatic it prevents the bullet from being jammed into the case or setback. The same applies in tube magazines. In revolvers the bullet walks out due to recoil impulse. My 38/357 rounds end up in a revolver or a carbine so I use a firm roll crimp. In light 38 loads pistol only taper crimps work just fine for most.
I usually leave the cannelure or crimp groove (for cast) showing a little bit. All my 357/38 rounds go through a revolver so setback isn’t a problem. I also use the lightest crimp I can, even for full power 357 Magnum loads, which is contact plus 1/3 turn on the Lee crimping/seating die. I should definitely measure bullet movement for these now that I think about it. Maybe load 6, shoot 5, then measure the last one.
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tws3b2
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500 primers - $54
1 pound w231-$41
100 hornady 38 spl 158gr xtp bullets - $28
100 hornady 9mm 147gr xtp bullets -$28
100 9mm once fired brass casings -$10
1 38 spl Lee loading kit -$40
1 9mm lee loading kit - $40
Rounds Loaded to date 5
I figure that comes up to around $48.2 per round. "If I don't count gas tracking it all down or the $7 to get into the gun show to get the primers".
So Far - I don't know if I can afford saving money by reloading.
1 pound w231-$41
100 hornady 38 spl 158gr xtp bullets - $28
100 hornady 9mm 147gr xtp bullets -$28
100 9mm once fired brass casings -$10
1 38 spl Lee loading kit -$40
1 9mm lee loading kit - $40
Rounds Loaded to date 5
I figure that comes up to around $48.2 per round. "If I don't count gas tracking it all down or the $7 to get into the gun show to get the primers".
So Far - I don't know if I can afford saving money by reloading.
There’s your problem right there. You’ll run out of projectiles then primers. The powder you bought will make a lot of ammo. I’m still working on my first two pounds of pistol powders, W231 and CFE Pistol.
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tws3b2
Member
My first 5 reloads were my first fired at the range today. One hand, 7 yds. The lower of the hits in red are actually 2 hits.
I fired probably 30 more rounds of fmj store bought rounds after and none were as nearly good "different target".
Now I will start reloading.
I fired probably 30 more rounds of fmj store bought rounds after and none were as nearly good "different target".
Now I will start reloading.
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ballman6711
Member
LOL!!!! You got off easy for your first five rounds. I started reloading about five years ago with 45acp. My first round cost me just over $400!
The good news is that my next 499 rounds only cost my time, I basically paid for all of them with the first round.
That pound of W231 will get you almost 1800 rounds of 38spcl at 3.9gr per round. Your brass can be reloaded a lot of times, maybe not forever, but if you keep it reasonable it may outlast you.
Hornady Custom 38 Special Ammo 158 Grain Hornady XTP Jacketed Hollow
Hornady custom-grade ammunition from the factory. Every round of Hornady Custom ammunition is hand inspected before packaging to ensure the highest...
www.midwayusa.com
You could have bought 100 rounds of 38spcl Hornady 158gr XTP from Midway for $128, plus tax and shipping.
Hornady Subsonic 9mm Luger Ammo 147 Grain Hornady XTP Jacketed Hollow
Hornady Subsonic Ammunition is designed for accuracy and performance below the speed of sound. Each XTP Bullet has a swaged core and drawn copper jacket...
www.midwayusa.com
I don't reload 9mm, but 100 rounds of 9mm Hornady 147gr XTP from Midway is $108, again you have to add tax and shipping.
So your total is $241 (I didn't count your $7 entry fee or your gas) vs. buying the same (or at least similar) loaded ammo for $236 (also not counting shipping and tax). So it cost you $5 more to be able to load your own 38spcl and 9mm (100 rounds each). You can make an extra 100 rounds of either for another $28 (assuming you can get the bullets again for the same price) or you can use different bullets and make ammo for less.
chris
ballman6711
Member
Once you decide that you like it and want to keep at it, get a press to make it easier and faster.
And one last thing, welcome to the addiction!
I mean hobby, welcome to the hobby!
chris
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tws3b2
Member
LOL!!!! You got off easy for your first five rounds. I started reloading about five years ago with 45acp. My first round cost me just over $400!
The good news is that my next 499 rounds only cost my time, I basically paid for all of them with the first round.
That pound of W231 will get you almost 1800 rounds of 38spcl at 3.9gr per round. Your brass can be reloaded a lot of times, maybe not forever, but if you keep it reasonable it may outlast you.
Hornady Custom 38 Special Ammo 158 Grain Hornady XTP Jacketed Hollow
Hornady custom-grade ammunition from the factory. Every round of Hornady Custom ammunition is hand inspected before packaging to ensure the highest...
You could have bought 100 rounds of 38spcl Hornady 158gr XTP from Midway for $128, plus tax and shipping.
Hornady Subsonic 9mm Luger Ammo 147 Grain Hornady XTP Jacketed Hollow
Hornady Subsonic Ammunition is designed for accuracy and performance below the speed of sound. Each XTP Bullet has a swaged core and drawn copper jacket...
I don't reload 9mm, but 100 rounds of 9mm Hornady 147gr XTP from Midway is $108, again you have to add tax and shipping.
So your total is $241 (I didn't count your $7 entry fee or your gas) vs. buying the same (or at least similar) loaded ammo for $236 (also not counting shipping and tax). So it cost you $5 more to be able to load your own 38spcl and 9mm (100 rounds each). You can make an extra 100 rounds of either for another $28 (assuming you can get the bullets again for the same price) or you can use different bullets and make ammo for less.
chris
Right now I'm in the middle of " I don't know" land.
At the range today I was fairly impressed with the accuracy of my first 5 reloads. And, I picked up about 100 9mm casings and 50 38 spl casings off the ground.
So, I'll start reloading 100 9mm and 95 38 spl and see what happens from there.
I don't intend to get into it heavy. But, I have to admit I already have been looking at a press.
Maybe, maybe not. Just have to wait and see.
ballman6711
Member
Take your time with it. Enjoy the time reloading. Don't get in a hurry. And most of all check and recheck, be safe.
At some point you'll decide whether you like it or not. If so, then you can start looking at and researching presses. If not, you can walk away knowing that you can do it again if you want or need to.
LOL! This is how it starts. Some jump into the deep end and some dip their toes. I got started because "I wanted to try it". My first reloads functioned fine, in fact pretty good. But the accuracy was so poor I would have had trouble hitting the side of a barn from the inside.
A few weeks ago I hit a 10" steel plate at 50 yards with my reloads. I was shooting my 3" 1911 in 45acp. Hit it three times in five shots. Missed it completely with the next five shots so maybe i got lucky.
If you stick with it, you can save money on a "per round" basis. The equipment will pay for itself, how fast depends on what you load. But a side benefit, you will be able to continue shooting when commercial ammo isn't available. Another benefit is you can load what you and your guns like. Try finding 185gr swc in 45acp, or any type of 480 Ruger ammo.
Nice shooting by the way.
chris
