Winchester 6.5 StaBall in the 6.5CM... how good is it?

Charlie98

Charlie98

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I've been loading the 6.5CM for 3 different rifles, for about 3 years. Nothing earth shattering, but accurate enough at 100yds or so. Initially, because I couldn't find any of the 4350's, I started loading with IMR4451. I was not very happy with the results IMR4451 gave me... so I finally worked through that can, and moved on to H4350, which is supposed to be the Final Solution for the 6.5CM.

My brother is very likely going to be picking up a hunting rifle in 6.5CM... his Christmas List is very short this year in the hopes Santa will just pick that item and be done with him... so I will very likely be ramping up my 6.5CM handloading. To that end, I need to lay in a supply of powder appropriate for the 6.5...

I was at my LGS yesterday, just window shopping. They had 8#ers of H4350 and Varget, both pushing $400! But there sat an 8# of 6.5 StaBall... for $300. It was almost too good to be true.

So, after my disappointing experience with one of the 'new and improved' powders, IMR4451, before I drop the coin on something like 6.5 StaBall... and be stuck with 8# of another disappointing powder... I thought I would axe those of you who have used StaBall, and particularly in the 6.5CM your experiences with it, and your impressions...

As a ball powder, does it require a Magnum primer?

How are the velocities in reality, vs what the data predicts?

Any crazy behavior... when it is very hot, or very cold? Heavy vs light bullets?

Does it really give the 4350's a run for their money?
 
Charlie98 said:
I've been loading the 6.5CM for 3 different rifles, for about 3 years. Nothing earth shattering, but accurate enough at 100yds or so. Initially, because I couldn't find any of the 4350's, I started loading with IMR4451. I was not very happy with the results IMR4451 gave me... so I finally worked through that can, and moved on to H4350, which is supposed to be the Final Solution for the 6.5CM.

My brother is very likely going to be picking up a hunting rifle in 6.5CM... his Christmas List is very short this year in the hopes Santa will just pick that item and be done with him... so I will very likely be ramping up my 6.5CM handloading. To that end, I need to lay in a supply of powder appropriate for the 6.5...

I was at my LGS yesterday, just window shopping. They had 8#ers of H4350 and Varget, both pushing $400! But there sat an 8# of 6.5 StaBall... for $300. It was almost too good to be true.

So, after my disappointing experience with one of the 'new and improved' powders, IMR4451, before I drop the coin on something like 6.5 StaBall... and be stuck with 8# of another disappointing powder... I thought I would axe those of you who have used StaBall, and particularly in the 6.5CM your experiences with it, and your impressions...

As a ball powder, does it require a Magnum primer?

How are the velocities in reality, vs what the data predicts?

Any crazy behavior... when it is very hot, or very cold? Heavy vs light bullets?

Does it really give the 4350's a run for their money?
Click to expand...


It shot alright for me not crazy good not crazy bad but your rifle may love it you won’t know till you try your brother in laws rifle may not like what your rifles likes just an fyi
 
horsemen61 said:
It shot alright for me not crazy good not crazy bad but your rifle may love it you won’t know till you try your brother in laws rifle may not like what your rifles likes just an fyi
Click to expand...

Very true... but I was thinking more along the lines of wondering if it had any glaring bad habits, or simply didn't produce (like IMR4451.) Ball powders are not normally the first choice when you are thinking accuracy and performance.
 
Forty plus tax and you can try it. Just because so and so doesn't like it doesn't mean it won't work for you. I'm always up for trying a new one
 
Well you can go at it like hodgdon says. Pick a compressed one or one on either side of it. Read it for the straight scoop. To gout and buy a supply of power without testing one lb first is asking for possible disappointment
 
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Charlie98 said:
I'm not... I've had more failures than successes trying different powders.
Click to expand...
That was somewhat true for me when I tested powders in 45acp. But, I found out what I liked and stocked up on it. I used some of the rest in other calibers, a few of them I don’t intend to buy any more. I did learn a lot in the process.
 
Toprudder said:
That was somewhat true for me when I tested powders in 45acp. But, I found out what I liked and stocked up on it. I used some of the rest in other calibers, a few of them I don’t intend to buy any more. I did learn a lot in the process.
Click to expand...

That was my biggest disappointment... trying to find alternate powders for 9mm and .45ACP. But, as you say, I DID learn some things, even in failure... like how good Unique really is, even after all these years. I don't intend to buy ANY of them, ever again. I was bamboozled by all that 'new and improved' packaging, much like my detour with IMR4451.
 
Charlie98 said:
horsemen61 said:
It shot alright for me not crazy good not crazy bad but your rifle may love it you won’t know till you try your brother in laws rifle may not like what your rifles likes just an fyi
Click to expand...
I was thinking more along the lines of wondering if it had any glaring bad habits, or simply didn't produce (like IMR4451.) Ball powders are not normally the first choice when you are thinking accuracy and performance.
Click to expand...
You guys are making me nervous about testing my bottle of StaBall Match (Winchester's answer to Varget). 😁

I picked up StaBall Match to test based on good range report by Ultimate Reloader video (Jump to 7:11 minute for 6.5 loads)
www.youtube.com

Compared: StaBALL 6.5, Match, and HD!

Full Story: https://bit.ly/3NmOLkLUR on RUMBLE: https://rumble.com/ultimatereloaderUR T-Shirts: https://bit.ly/2UEAkgWUR on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/...
www.youtube.com www.youtube.com

6.5 group testing at 8:30 minute of video
www.youtube.com

TESTED: Winchester StaBALL 6.5 (Creedmoor-Class Powder)

Full Story: https://bit.ly/2M1qCTeUR T-Shirts: https://bit.ly/2UEAkgWUR on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/ultimatereloaderFinding the right powder for your...
www.youtube.com www.youtube.com

Johnny's Reloading Bench testing of StaBall 6.5
www.youtube.com

Winchester StaBALL 6.5 - Temperature sensitivity test

Today we have a look at StaBALL 6.5, a new powder from Winchester. Its main selling point is that it's supposed to be insensitive to temperature swings, so ...
www.youtube.com www.youtube.com
 
I'd also suggest trying a 1lber before going all in. I know your bro does not have his rifle yet, but you can sure test it on your rifles.

I'm doing that with H4350 right now in my 6.5CM. There are some 8lber's sitting on the stores shelf, but I want to be sure my rifle likes it before buying in. Found some excellent groups with it, so will be picking up an 8# jug right quick.
 
JEBruns said:
I'd also suggest trying a 1lber before going all in. I know your bro does not have his rifle yet, but you can sure test it on your rifles.

I'm doing that with H4350 right now in my 6.5CM. There are some 8lber's sitting on the stores shelf, but I want to be sure my rifle likes it before buying in. Found some excellent groups with it, so will be picking up an 8# jug right quick.
Click to expand...

I was very tempted to drop the bills on an 8# of H4350 this past week... but, jeepers, $400?!?! What will happen is... I'll decide to stay with H4350, and THEN I won't be able to find it. ;) Be quick about it... H4350 is out in the wilds right now... I've seen it, and that's not hoary internet lore! 😁

Truthfully, although I've not really gotten into serious load testing with H4350... having just finished up the can of IMR4451... I find it pretty hard to believe I can't work up a decent load between the 4 rifles I'll be loading it for. Different bullets, mind you, but I'll bet the H4350 will work well enough.

Going back through some of the older threads here (which I don't remember reading, because I've slept since then...) I'm seeing that StaBall 6.5 gets a little testy at max load. That reminds me of what I read, and ultimately experienced, with IMR4451... that it didn't deliver the velocity the 4350's would unless you maxed it out.
 
Charlie98 said:
I was very tempted to drop the bills on an 8# of H4350 this past week... but, jeepers, $400?!?! What will happen is... I'll decide to stay with H4350, and THEN I won't be able to find it. ;) Be quick about it... H4350 is out in the wilds right now... I've seen it, and that's not hoary internet lore! 😁

Truthfully, although I've not really gotten into serious load testing with H4350... having just finished up the can of IMR4451... I find it pretty hard to believe I can't work up a decent load between the 4 rifles I'll be loading it for. Different bullets, mind you, but I'll bet the H4350 will work well enough.

Going back through some of the older threads here (which I don't remember reading, because I've slept since then...) I'm seeing that StaBall 6.5 gets a little testy at max load. That reminds me of what I read, and ultimately experienced, with IMR4451... that it didn't deliver the velocity the 4350's would unless you maxed it out.
Click to expand...
Varget and 4064 seem to want max loads in my 308 and 223 loadings. Tac seems unhappy at max. My conclusion seems to be that if one likes a full case, even some crunch extruded is the ticket... on the opposite end if one is looking for the cheapest range fodder (aka blamo) extruded is way more expensive.
 
AJC1 said:
Varget and 4064 seem to want max loads in my 308 and 223 loadings. Tac seems unhappy at max.
Click to expand...

I think TAC is a pretty dense powder, and hard to get good case fill without tapping the governor. I must admit, IMR4064 with the heavies in .308 is a pretty hard to beat combo... but I'll find out how well TAC stacks up in a few weeks. In any event, as you say, TAC makes a pretty good blasting powder.
 
The 6.5cm's I reload for are a Savage 110, Axis II, and a T/C Compass. Staball 6.5 is good in them, but I can't say that it is any better than Varget or RL16. I can get similar groups with all three and 140bthps.
 
IMR4451 has been a Lazer beam in my old 270. Please don't say it's bad out loud. I only have a little left
 
I worked up loads with StaBall 6.5 for my rifle and it shoots okay. I've gotten better results with RL-16 and H4350, but if I couldn't get them, I'd be happy to shoot it. With H4350, I routinely shoot sub MOA groups and frequently get sub 1/2 MOA groups. The same for RL-16, although with the current price increase, I won't be shooting it once I run out. The last time I saw it on line it was $458 for 8 lbs. . I can shoot sub MOA groups with StaBall, but not as consistently as I can with the other two powders. I kept a couple pounds in case I can't find H4350.
 
Barmcd said:
I worked up loads with StaBall 6.5 for my rifle and it shoots okay. I've gotten better results with RL-16 and H4350, but if I couldn't get them, I'd be happy to shoot it. With H4350, I routinely shoot sub MOA groups and frequently get sub 1/2 MOA groups. The same for RL-16, although with the current price increase, I won't be shooting it once I run out. The last time I saw it on line it was $458 for 8 lbs. . I can shoot sub MOA groups with StaBall, but not as consistently as I can with the other two powders. I kept a couple pounds in case I can't find H4350.
Click to expand...
This is a solid reply.

It all depends on the accuracy expectations of the shooter.
 
LiveLife said:
How about Match Rifle?
Click to expand...
They say it is very much like Varget, and I was going to try some until the price went up a bunch, so I just
bought an 8 pounder of Varget when I could. I have three powders now that I can use for 6 Dasher if need be.

Well, really 4 - RL-15, RL-15.5, IMR-8208, Varget
 
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