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Winchester Introducing a Rimless 357 Max

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by bluetopper, Jan 19, 2019.

  1. mcb

    mcb Member

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    Yeap that is certainly what it looks like. I am still really excited about the cartridge but that does put a minor blemish on it for me.
     
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  2. bluetopper

    bluetopper Member

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    It does have a steeper shoulder angle and less body taper. That will be realized after the first firing with a full charge load.
     
  3. Aim1

    Aim1 Member

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    So will this be a good hunting round?

    Up to what game could you kill with it, deer?

    What is the benefit of this round over what else is already out there?
     
  4. Jason_W

    Jason_W Member

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    It will be as good for medium sized thin skinned game out to 200 yards or so as a good number of extant cartridges.

    I’m guessing that at close range and with a proper load, it could probably be pressed into service for black bear and some of the larger North American hoofed game.

    As others have pointed out, it will be welcome in states that only allow straight walled cartridges, shotgun slugs, and muzzleloaders for deer hunting. It should have a little more reach than a .44 mag from a rifle and less felt recoil than the .450 bushmaster.
     
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  5. PapaG

    PapaG Member

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    Thanks.
     
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  6. Aim1

    Aim1 Member

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    Thanks. Cool.


    The benefit being it will shoot out of a regular AR15 with only a barrel change?
     
  7. Texas10mm

    Texas10mm Member

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    The rim is different you would also need a new bolt and different mags.
     
  8. someguy2800

    someguy2800 Member

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    The rim is the same as 223. It will need a new mag though because of the rib on the inside of most 223 magazines.
     
  9. Texas10mm

    Texas10mm Member

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    Are you sure?
     
  10. someguy2800

    someguy2800 Member

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    yes, 223 rim diameter is .378". The base diameter is measured just above the extractor cut.
     
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  11. the Black Spot

    the Black Spot Member

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    Wonder how wadcutters would work in it...
     
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  12. mcb

    mcb Member

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    It .003 different in nominal rim diameter and it's slight smaller than 223 Remington. The same bolt will work just fine with both cartridges. The manufacturing tolerance on 223 Remington is .378 -.010, I suspect 350 Legend with be similar. The video posted up thread about CMMG revealing their new guns chambered in 350 Legend basically said that it would use the same bolt.

    It will need a unique magazine since the rib that is suppose to trap the shoulder of 223 is going to be an issue. Guys that where playing with 357 AR Max and similar wild cats where taking large files and removing the rib from PMAG and similar plastic mags to make compatible magazines. No doubt similar will work for 350 Legend until cartridge specific magazine hit the market. I would be surprised if CMMG doesn't already have a magazine ready to go.

    Pulling this out of my keister but I think wad cutters would be an issue. I think some wide met-plat cast bullet could probably be made to work but I think a flush seated wadcutter is going to have issues with nose diving and stemming on the feed ramp and end of the magazine, at least in an AR platform. I have seen some surprising blunt bullets used successfully in 450 Bushmaster but they have always be closer to max OAL than flush seated to work.
     
  13. CoalTrain49

    CoalTrain49 Member

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    That's too bad. They probably did that to sell more loaded ammo and brass. Winchester makes brass. I was really looking forward to using the 30 lbs of .223 brass I had on hand.
     
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  14. gotboostvr

    gotboostvr Member

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    Same. It doesn't seem to gain anything over 357AR Max but uses proprietary brass.

    Well, hopefully some good bullets get made that I can utilize in the 357Max I already have, and the AR MAX I still plan on building.
     
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  15. Texas10mm

    Texas10mm Member

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    Ok, I'm confused. Some people say it's the same as .223 brass and others are saying it's not. Which is it?
     
  16. MCMXI
    • Contributing Member

    MCMXI Contributing Member

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    If you look at the measurements I posted and the SAAMI spec for the .223 Rem case it's clear that the Legend is about .010" larger in diameter at the base even though the case head has the same diameter. The web is thick at the base and probably won't flow too well when fired so .223 Rem brass might not fireform to Legend dimensions. I wouldn't be opposed to buying 100 or so Legend cases for a bolt action rifle but sure wouldn't want to buy hundreds for an AR. I have a .450 Bushmaster and have thousands of cases for that so it's looking less and less likely that I'll be jumping on the Legend bandwagon.
     
  17. mcb

    mcb Member

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    As I understand it so far 350 Legend does not use the 223 Rem case as a parent. The body of the case appears to be larger in diameter. It does however use the same diameter rim (or close enough for our purposes) to use the same bolt as a 223/556/300bo/204 Ruger/etc. This is alluded to in the video up thread about the new CMMG AR chambered in 350 Legend.
     
  18. bluetopper

    bluetopper Member

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    So it really is a 357 Maximum body with a 223 head, right?
     
  19. troy fairweather

    troy fairweather Member

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    i think it's longer the 350
     
  20. bluetopper

    bluetopper Member

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    I looked it up, case length for the 350 Legend is 1.71"...…...case length for the 357 Max is 1.605"
     
  21. Doc7

    Doc7 Member

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    Do you think this will be chambered in the Model 70?
    I am thinking I want one in a compact featherweight for my son. He’s now 4 but I understand the current 70s may be the best ever made so I want to jump on one soon. If the hype is true this would be between 243 and 7mm-08 with less recoil?
     
  22. HB

    HB Member

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    Would be cool in a Mini
     
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  23. someguy2800

    someguy2800 Member

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    You guys wanting to form from 223 also need to remember 223 is tapered, so if you wanted to make it straight wall you would have to make a tapered expander that went all the way down to the web to expand the case out or you would need to fire form it. Neither the 350 legend or 357 AR max ar going to be as simple as just sizing and trimming like 300 blackout is. We will have to see what winchester comes out with for pricing on brass. You can buy brass for the 357 AR max from starline already.
     
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  24. someguy2800

    someguy2800 Member

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    Hopefully somebody will come up with some tools to expand out a 223 case without fire forming.
     
  25. Fine Figure of a Man

    Fine Figure of a Man Member

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    I will probably put together an AR chambered for it. I'm not concerned about brass, it won't be a gun that I shoot hundreds of rounds through.
     
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