Winchester primers hotter than CCI?

[mugsie]

I shot some 308 today that had 44.5 grains of Varget under a 169g Nosler HPBT bullet using a Winchester Large Rifle Primer. They were .010 from the lands. I fired the first and the bolt was "sticky" with the primer flattened. I fired the second and I had to whack the bolt with a chunk of wood to get it open. I didn't fire any more.

I shot this same combination before, except I used CCI 400 Large rifle primers. No signs of high pressure what-so-ever.

Have you found the WLR primers running hotter then the CCI?

(I unloaded the balance of the cases and will reload with 40.5 of IMR 4895 which has proven to be very accurate for me. So much for Varget)

 

[Steve C]

I have got higher velocity with Winchester primers in pistol loads compared to the same or slightly higher loads using CCI. Can't say for sure that the rifle primers are hotter but your problem indicates that they likely are.

 

[USSR]

Yes, the Winchester Large Rifle primers are hotter than even the CCI Large Rifle Magnum primers, as determined by the American Rifleman technical staff.

Don

 

[Visionz45]

Look at the A Square primer tests. I read a report that had been copied and pasted that suggested that the results published in their 7mm rem mag test were similar in several calibers. CCi 250's or Fed 215's are my max primer in .30-06or similar cases. WLRM are super hot, Ive used them in 264 WM and 7mm Rem Mag and tended to get better velocities with the Fed's and CCI's. WLR's show pressure signs long before 215's and 250's in my .30-06. If your using Varget maybe you should try a CCI 200 for Fed 210.

 

[Jesse Heywood]

I fired the first and the bolt was "sticky" with the primer flattened. I fired the second and I had to whack the bolt with a chunk of wood to get it open. I didn't fire any more.

The wise choice would have been to stop at the first round. I never claimed to be wise, either. I got the latest Handloader magazine in the mail Friday. The first article: A Loading Manual Is Essential tells of some similar situations. A good read for all that reload.

 

[armarsh]

44.5 grains is past maximum in the Hornady and Sierra manuals. Quickload confirms it is very near max pressure.

If you are running near the max, it is wise to not change any part of the recipe.

 

[mugsie]

Think I found it

My reloading manual has 46g of Varget as max - I'm far below it.
I think I found the reason - I had turned the necks on these particular cases. Upon examining them, I found that rather than smooth necks, they were "gouged" up considerably. I'm sure they expanded and because of the rough turning job, managed to jam in the chamber causing the difficult extraction. That's one assumption.

The other possible cause (problem here was there are too many variables to lock into one condition which could have caused this issue) was these rounds were fired previously without incident - only problem was they were fired in a different barrel. Because that barrel had problems, I swapped it out for another. The rounds were neck sized for the previous barrel - although they chambered without incident, I'm thinking they were tight and maybe a little carbon build up and they jammed. tough to arrive at a definative cause though.

I did load up some Lapua brass, never fired before, and they loaded and shot perfectly with no problems what-so-ever. So the problem is with the previously loaded rounds. I'll take them all apart and start from scratch again, starting with FL resizing for the new chamber, sizing etc. Better safe than sorry.

 

[788Ham]

Bet that will solve your problem mugsie. Changing the barrels was probably the culprit, the FL sizing will eliminate that problem. Good luck!

 

[USSR]

My reloading manual has 46g of Varget as max - I'm far below it.

Yeah, but not with all brass. The .308 is one of those cartridges where loads can vary considerably according to the brass used. 46gr of Varget is fine for Winchester or Hornady Match brass, but not for Lapua, Federal, or milsurp brass.

Don

 

[kaferhaus]

What did the primer look like???? It could be a chamber/brass problem.

There are problem barrels out there but every manual I've ever seen had a fairly conservative load listed as "max" when using the components listed.

I do a lot of long range bench rest shooting and it's fairly normal when working up a load to progress until you see the beginning signs of over pressure and then back up a bit. Not something for the casual re-loader but I've always found that the true "max" load in my rifles with the components I use to be above the published max by a couple grains at least in medium to large capacity cases.

I'm not recommending anyone do this... just saying i'd be looking to the chamber or brass for issues there first. If this is a "tight neck" chamber you may have already found the problem. You need at least .002" neck clearance or you can spike pressures.