Winchester Ranger: Too many QC problems, will no longer purchase **pics**

[Warp]

I think that I have about had it with the Winchester Ranger line of ammunition.

Strike One:
I ordered a case of RA9B (9mm 147gr bonded) a few years ago from OMB Express. This was during the ammunition buying craze when very little was generally available.
I wouldn't have gone with RA9B if not for the price and availability during that time.

Every round from that case is FUBAR. We had discussions about it on Glock Talk at the time and the end result seemed to be everybody said it was acceptable and
nobody would take returns or exchanges or otherwise fix the problem.
I refuse to load it defensively because it is FUBAR, IMO, which basically made for an expensive case of practice ammo/general JHP feed testing ammo.



The top row is the first 4 rounds I pulled from a regular box. The bottom row is the first 4 rounds from a random box from the 'FUBAR' case.
They all look at least that bad, if not worse.

You cannot tell me the row on the bottom meet any kind of QC standard for bet-your-life ammunition.
Coincidentally as a result of this plus another problem I had with them I refuse to do business with OMB Express.


Strike Two
I bought a Glock 30SF this spring. It was my first/only .45. I bought RA45T (.45 auto 230gr talon) as my initial choice in JHP ammunition. The RA45T failed miserably in the 30SF.
I blame the 30SF, but then HST +P failed once in 100 rounds and the RA45T failed once in every 10-15 rounds. Also, I came across this round fresh out of the box:




Strike Three
I ordered a few boxes of RA9TA (9mm 127gr talon +P+) from mahsupplies around a couple of months ago.
I took the first box of it out with my Glock 26 yesterday and I loaded this round without noticing (good reminder to inspect every single round you load for
actual potential defensive use!) it until it failed to fire:



It is more disfigured than I can get the image to convey. I am surprised I loaded it at the range without noticing.
The gun partially chambered it. The slide appeared to be forward and the trigger reset but it was not completely in battery and of course would not fire.



What is going on here? How do we get entire cases/an entire batch/whatever it was of RA9B that looks like that? And it is supposedly okay?

Am I just that unlucky that out of the last 3 boxes of Ranger Talon I have fired I came across two totally FUBAR rounds in two different calibers?

I have always preferred Gold Dot. I have fired more of them than any other JHP in my years of shooting. The more these things happen the more and more I strongly prefer Gold Dot.


Has anybody else experienced anything similar?

 

[CoRoMo]

Holy-freaking-cow man.

 

[FuzzyBunny]

I agree!

Write Winchester and send them pics.
It is such a huge liability issue for them I'll bet they will swap you out.

If the cases and bullets are so bad can you trust the powder?
I think not.

 

[wildman5759]

I have a half dozen boxes of the ammo in your first picture and mine look pretty much the same. I have a few rounds that the cavity is half full of lead. QC is pretty crappy lately with these. I have 5 or six boxes of .40 cal bonded that are similar as well. I went back to Speer, although none of the Winchester ammo has failed on me (yet).

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

They must be hiring straight from Century Arms.

This is why I try to avoid Winchester. Unfortunately When I go get Remington, they are usually sold out and I have to get WWB for plinking. I trust my life to Remington Bulk JHP.

 

[kd7nqb]

wow thats goofy, send this to Winchester.

 

[Gottahaveone]

....and I loaded this round without noticing (good reminder to inspect every single round you load for actual potential defensive use!)

I know I'm a bit anal but on carry ammo I not only do a visual, if the ammo is for a semi auto I take the barrel out and drop each and every round into the chamber to check for fit before I'll load it into a carried magazine. For a revolver I actually load the "spare" ammo in the cylinder and verify it closes and turns freely before it goes into the speed strips. And I do the same with the original carry cylinder full.

It takes a little time and effort, but I feel my backside is well worth it

 

[Kingofthehill]

YIKES!...

Although I am pretty devoted to Corbon and Gold Dots (due to my own personal ballistic testing trying 11 popular brands), I am really shocked to see so many problems with the Winchester stuff.

I certainly wouldn't trust my life with those.

 

[W L Johnson]

Wonder if we're starting to see counterfeit ammo?

 

[SSN Vet]

thanks for reminding me why I roll my own

 

[NYH1]

I thought Winchester ammo was supposed to be pretty good ammo? Obviously not.

NYH1!

 

[Strykervet]

Wonder if they sell "factory seconds" and this is where they come from.

This thread really concerned me, since I carry these in .40 and my wife in 9mm. I also use them in .45 for a bedside pistol. Note I get all these from the same place and they also sell to police around here. I don't know if Winchester does factory seconds, but those sure look like seconds in the picture.

So I pulled them out and looked at them. I have RA911HP+, RA9124TP, RA40TA, and RA45TP. I also have an old box of 147gr. 9mm Black Talon. All LE boxes.

With the exception of a few that have slightly flatter crenelated noses, they are all fine. I measured some of the .40's, and every one was within .002 of 1.090" COL, except the ones with flatter crenelated noses. Those measured about 1.070. It looks like one of their seating dies needs to be cleaned or checked, but the rounds all look fine.

I shot some last time I went to the range, and they worked great in 9mm and .40, I didn't take the .45. The deviation in velocity was pretty low too, but I can't find my numbers off hand.

I don't know, it could be a coincidence. I appear to be the only person on here that has had a problem with Midway. But if I got three boxes like that, I'd stop using it too.

I tend to load for everything, and I load 10mm carry rounds since you can't find a good load in 10mm --they are all either too light or too heavy for carry. But 10mm is forgiving if you load within book specifications. Not so with .40 and +P loads, so I use these Winchester loads for carry and only load range ammo for these three. I got these loads because I had heard they were the best there are out there for carry.

I didn't turn up anything like this on the internet when I was shopping for defense loads, so it makes me wonder where the people you got it from got it from, and if seconds exist. I'm gonna follow this thread, I'd like to see you contact Winchester and see what they say after you send these pictures to them.

 

[Mac Attack]

Looks like Winchester need to contact their reloading plant in India and give them some additional training because they have some serious QC issues.

I'm joking, but that is just not acceptable QC.

 

[Strykervet]

Wonder if we're starting to see counterfeit ammo?

Not likely as you can't get these bullets in components. Much easier to counterfeit Corbon or Hornady or some other maker. Which is why I get mine from a reputable dealer. I can see the Winchester box with all the labels and stuff it comes out of.

But yeah, rolling your own can fix this problem quick. Fun too. But you may run into the problem I did. If you want +P for carry (I want all the advantage I can get) reloading close to pressure maximums is risky at best. With 10mm, not a problem though, since good carry loads are somewhere in the middle. Hotter than .40, but not max loads in 10mm.

Switch to Hornady and you might get better results. The round doesn't expand aggressively, but it has really good penetration and it expands enough. The bullet is insanely accurate, the XTP. So much so, when they made an FMJ target bullet, they made it the same shape as the XTP. They are what I usually use in 10mm, and what I use universally for accuracy. I put 5 out of 7 shots .357 into a sillhouette at 300m with a 140gr. XTP. Pretty nice.

 

[daorhgih]

Warp, @ o.p.

Please, sir, do try to make your post match the layout of the text-block allowed
for the post. It makes it much easier to read, for those of us who do not have 24-inch view-screens. Thanks. Otherwise, your point is well taken. DAO

 

[Warp]

The text doesn't wrap automatically?

 

[SwissArmyDad]

I think it's the picture's size that are making his posts irregular...

 

[hemiram]

Wow, I've never had that many bad rounds in almost 35 years of shooting. I had some Remington 9mm's that were bad, but they were obviously bad (distorted cases), and would barely go into the magazine. Last bad ones I had were .380 Win white box, about a dozen of them had the bullet set way too deep, and one look at them showed something was seriously wrong with them. The store I bought them at took them back, and gave me a new box and they were fine.

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

And this is marketed - and priced - as premium ammunition, to defend your life with? Winchester needs to be sent those pictures.

 

[BamAlmighty]

This has become a common occurrence with Winchester, no quality control whatsoever.

Over the last year I have purchased approx 20 boxes of .40 PDX1s and EVERY box had at least 2 duds that would have failed, worst box had FIVE. Considering the price and having to bet your life on this ammo I will never buy Winchester ammo again. There is no excuse for the condition of the ammo they are putting out.

 

[TexasRifleman]

Wonder if we're starting to see counterfeit ammo?

You know that's the first thing I thought too. Where was the ammo purchased?

With ammo prices like they are it's not unimaginable that some scumbag would try to put some junk in a new box and sell it as factory.

 

[jonmerritt]

Now you know why leo's don't use it.

 

[Warp]

You know that's the first thing I thought too. Where was the ammo purchased?

With ammo prices like they are it's not unimaginable that some scumbag would try to put some junk in a new box and sell it as factory.

I have complete confidence in the supplier of the RA9TA.

As mentioned the RA9B came from OMB Express, whom I will not do business with anymore as a result of this and another (smaller) issue.

The RA45T came from www.sgammo.com

Now you know why leo's don't use it.

They do.

My local LEA uses RA9T. They have for years and it has done well for them.

 

[Mike1234567]

This is just another of seemingly endless Winchester QC issues I've read about. I won't buy anything from Winchester until they've resolved them all and have a long track record of "reasonable" reliability.

 

[Shawn Dodson]

Unless you purchase Ranger ammo directly from an authorized Winchester distributor then you can't be sure of it's pedigree and quality.

Winchester doesn't allow its distributors to sell Ranger ammunition to the general public. If you purchase Ranger ammo from an unauthorized ("questionable") source then you're taking a risk in regard to quality.