Winchester Ranger: Too many QC problems, will no longer purchase **pics**

[Warp]

Unless you purchase Ranger ammo directly from an authorized Winchester distributor then you can't be sure of it's pedigree and quality.

Winchester doesn't allow its distributors to sell Ranger ammunition to the general public. If you purchase Ranger ammo from an unauthorized ("questionable") source then you're taking a risk in regard to quality.

List of authorized Winchester distributors, please.

Your input on the places I listed, RE: Their status as authorized Winchester distributors, please.

Your response to overruns being offered to the public and dealers who simply choose to skirt around Winchester's policy, please.

 

[Shawn Dodson]

List of authorized Winchester distributors, please.

Your input on the places I listed, RE: Their status as authorized Winchester distributors, please.

If you didn't have to provide LEO credentials then you obtained your Ranger ammo from an unauthorized source and you take your chances.

Your response to overruns being offered to the public and dealers who simply choose to skirt around Winchester's policy, please.

Overruns? If you didn't have to provide LEO credentials then it's not an "overrun". Winchester DOESN'T "offer" Ranger ammo for sale to the general public.

The ammo may have been sold (surplused) by the original purchasing agency (damaged from mis-handling, damaged from improper storage, etc.). This is what I meant when I said that one CANNOT be sure of its pedigree and quality. Who knows where it came from and why it was dumped on the market?

 

[MikeNice]

I agree!

Write Winchester and send them pics.
It is such a huge liability issue for them I'll bet they will swap you out.

If the cases and bullets are so bad can you trust the powder?
I think not.

No, you can't trust the powder loads. I've had Winchester Ranger 9mm FMJ rounds that were overloaded. One particular 147gr round nearly KBed my gun. It looked like I was shooting a snubby .357 mag. Not a comforting sight when shooting a mid sized 9mm with a 3.8" barrel.

I have never had an issue with the HP ammo, though. I have ran through several rounds of it and it all worked fine. The cosmetics are ugly, but they all fired and they all expanded in my informal testing. I trust what I have. I will be buying Federal HST, Federal Hydrashock LE, or Gold Dot instead next time.

 

[Warp]

Are you telling me that not one single retailer who sells Ranger to somebody without LE credentials is an "authorized" seller?

Not even the one that won't sell to me anymore because I am not an officer and they got in trouble, but which still offers it if you can prove that you are a sworn peace officer?

Really? What's what you are saying?

 

[AK103K]

Ive bought a bunch (20 boxes or so) of both Winchester 127 grain +P+ (RA9TA) and 147 grain (RA9SXT) from SGAmmo over the last couple of years, and they have all been fine. Nothing like what was shown in the pics. I just double checked a number of the boxes after reading this, and nary a scratch or battered bullet, everything looks pristine.


I used to buy a lot of bulk ammo from Streichers until I started getting what looked like old stock or returns. The boxes were all beat up and the ammo (Speer Gold Dots) looked abused. They really had noting to say when I called and asked, just that it was what they had and the next lot in the rotation out the door. They are a police supply, so the I suppose the "return" or "trade in" aspect isnt really a reach.

You might try getting the lot number off the boxes and call Winchester and see what they have to say. They should know where the ammo originally went and what it was. Who knows, maybe it was reject and meant to be sold for components, and ended up in the "unobtainable" supply chain.

 

[Warp]

I filled out a Contact Us entry on the appropriate section of Winchester's website yesterday. I mentioned that I had the boxes for the RA9TA and RA9B and could provide them with any lot numbers, etc, they desired for any reason.

 

[MikeNice]

Where is the lot number on your box? I never looked for it on any of my Winchester products.

 

[JTHunter]

Boy - seeing this makes me glad I load most of my own or the ammo I have is over 5 years old!

 

[Warp]

Where is the lot number on your box? I never looked for it on any of my Winchester products.

I'm not sure, which is why I told them I could convey what was on the boxes instead of simply telling them. A cursory look didn't show anything that stood out to me.

 

[Shawn Dodson]

Are you telling me that not one single retailer who sells Ranger to somebody without LE credentials is an "authorized" seller?

Not even the one that won't sell to me anymore because I am not an officer and they got in trouble, but which still offers it if you can prove that you are a sworn peace officer?

Really? What's what you are saying?

Yup.

From Winchester's LE website -

Where to buy. Winchester has Law Enforcement Ammunition distributors located throughout the Unites States and Canada for LE sales only.

This has been Winchester's policy since it withdrew Black Talon from the general public in the mid-1990's. Winchester requires LE distributors to enter a legal agreement NOT to sell Ranger to the general public. Don't take my word for it, ask them for yourself - http://winchesterle.com/Pages/ContactUs.aspx

Winchester Law Enforcement website: http://winchesterle.com/Pages/Home.aspx

 

[Warp]

All that proves is that not all of their distributors honor their policy. We have known this for a long time.

 

[grubbylabs]

thanks for reminding me why I roll my own

I second that.

 

[Furncliff]

Until a year ago Winchester White Box was my choice for 9mm and .45acp. Then the crud started to creep in, all kinds of deformities, in nearly every box. It made me think about what I couldn't see.

I have switched to S&B for 9mm and begun reloading .45, Winchester has lost my trust.

 

[Alex23]

This is worrying and I'd send high res pics to winchester and ask them what is going on. Perhaps they are counterfeits?

I've shot a fair amount of PDX1. Every round looked good and was accurate - for the price it darned better be.

Prefer Hornady though. Can't prove it but I just think they make a better round.

 

[Shawn Dodson]

All that proves is that not all of their distributors honor their policy. We have known this for a long time.

If anything is to be proved it's that you've purchased poor quality "defense" ammunition that was rejected by somebody for a reason.

Buyer beware.

 

[Warp]

No such thing has been proven. Conjecture /=/ proof

 

[Shawn Dodson]

No such thing has been proven. Conjecture /=/ proof

Are YOU not the original poster of the thread titled "Winchester Ranger: Too many QC problems, will no longer purchase **pics**"?

Are YOU not the one complaining about poor quality Winchester Ranger ammo you purchased from questionable sources?

Are YOU not the one who posted photos of poor quality ammo you received from questionable sources to prove your claim?

You're doing yourself a favor in your decision to "no longer purchase".

In addition you've done everybody else a favor in bringing this issue to light!

 

[Warp]

"Questionable sources" is why I see your matter of fact statement as conjecture.

 

[MikeNice]

Shawn the Ranger FMJ that nearly blew apart my CZ came from a reputable LE dealer in NC. So did the Ranger Bonded 147gr 9mm that I use. The quality of finish and amount of lead inside the hollow point is inconsistent.

The Bonded hps have performed flawlessly and tested to spec. They definitely aren't pretty though. Is Winchester's QC spotty? I can't say for sure, every company has a few lemons. I just know I'm not using their Ranger fmj ever again. It doesn't matter if it comes from a "reputable" source or not as far as I'm concerned.

 

[the357plan]

RANGER T-SERIES Lot Numbers

RANGER T-SERIES Lot Numbers are stamped (imprinted without ink) as shown in the red circle on the RANGER T-SERIES flaps. This only done on of the two flaps.

Most commercial ammo is done as shown below, on the inside of one of the two flaps.

Personally, I've never had a problem with any Winchester ammunition. Maybe someday, I might. Over the years, I have had problems with Hornady, Remington and Federal. I think problems just go around. I have shipped some (KB'ed on me) back to the manufacture. Lot numbers are important in case the manufacture needs to recall it.

I know better than to order a case of something without first testing a box of it.

Some article (several years ago) from some magazine like G&A or Shooting Times gave me the impression that Winchester was a little more liberal with how they loaded their Ranger Ammo (+P+ or sloppyness, don't know). Evidently, the LE community is less likely to sue Winchester over problems (like battering their guns) than the general public. But as you can see by the pictures, the article didn't stop me from buying it. I'm guessing that what's good for the police is good for me. However, I do switch out with Gold Dots and assorted others from time to time (especially since Ranger T-Series isn't made for 10 mm or 357).

 

[TriTone]

I've gotten a lot of ranger ammo in .40 at Cabelas before. The boxes were always smashed to hrll but never had a bad round out of thousands.

 

[Dnaltrop]

I've been burning up a few boxes of the 165's pictured above... I guess I'm just lucky, but the only ugly rounds in my mag are the top two from being tarnished by skin acids.

Seriously ugly rounds you have there... I need to get my dies moving, I've been *mildly* obsessive on the Schofield .45 for the last few months. (Point shooting practice... next up, Hip shooting

My .40 consumption has been extremely loooow, it's just not as "fun" now that my trigger pull is no longer jerking to the left.

Edit... current lot # I'm shooting is...27BK51, picked up at the local gun show about a year ago now, am on my last box.

 

[AWorthyOpponent]

Ive heard of soo many people having issues with this ammunition.

 

[essayons21]

Hmm... examples #2 and #3 are certainly damning. When did you purchase those rounds? I heard quite a few tales about how manufacturers were letting QC slip in their desire to churn out maximum quantity during the 2008 ammo craze.

Your first example, while certainly indicating a less than desireable level of QC, is not really terribly concerning. Did the rounds cycle and fire? Was accuracy acceptable? I really don't see the round failing to perform as intended inside a bad guy because of a few extra 1/10ths of a grain of lead.

I have noticed something similar in Federal 230gr Hydroshoks over the years. As they have been the issued round in the local department for almost 2 decades I have seen quite a few different batches. They show similar differences in the amount of visible lead in the hollowppoint, although they are fairly consistent among the box. I am certainly no expert on bullet manufacture, but perhaps the tooling gets dirty over time and is periodically cleaned, resulting in these differences.

I certainly don't blame you for giving up on the company or the line. One bad experience is certainly enough to raise questions about the quality of the tools you use to defend your life. I had a similar situation involving Hornady's Critical Defense .380 ACP, and it has put me off Hornady handgun ammunition ever since. I have used Speer products before and since, and have never had any issues FWIW.

 

[Warp]

The RA45T was purchased this spring. The RA9TA was purchased a couple months ago.

The first example, the RA9B, has functioned so far. I believe I have fired 250 of the 500. I've had those for at least 3 years.