Winchester -- What is their story exactly

[rcmodel]

Well, they must have sold the name to both Browning, and FN-USA then.

FN-USA makes the Model 70 Winchester and Winchester shotguns now in Columbia, SC..

And they don't have a thing to do with Browning in Morgan Utah, except they are both owned by FN Herstal.

rc

 

[DPris]

RC,
Nope, you're confusing the layout, which is understandable since it's a little convoluted.
Browning is owned by FNH in Herstal, Belgium, as you noted.
"Winchester" has been owned by FNH for several years also, as you noted.
The FN-USA plant in South Carolina is owned by FNH in Belgium.

"Winchester" as a fully fleshed business entity has not existed for quite a while. The USRAC plant in New Haven was not Winchester, by the time it was closed it was only a plant owned by FNH that produced three models carrying the Winchester brand. Those Winchester-branded products were sold through Browning channels, and serviced & repaired by the joint Browning/Winchester center in Missouri.

Browning has handled the Winchester product line behind the scenes for some time, with both "companies" headquarters located in the same building in Utah.

FNH had Browning buy the Winchester licensing rights so that FNH (through FN-USA in South Carolina) can manufacture "Winchesters" in the US, and can manufacture Winchester marked guns outside the US & import them as "Winchesters" through Browning as the import agent.

FNH, through its three subsidiaries in the US can produce "Winchesters" in this country in South Carolina, at the Belgian plant, and/or have them produced by Miroku in Japan and other plants (Turkey, Russia, etc.) .
Browning has been actually doing the marketing of Winchester guns from whatever source they came from, and the companies are all inter-related to some degree in that sense.

It's something of a shell game, but since Browning actually manufactures nothing itself & was already importing many of its firearms from other countries and handling the "Winchester" brand anyway, positioning it to buy the rights to the brand when they came up for bid does make sense from FNH's point of view.

Denis

Edited to add: Not sure you'll find many Winchester shotguns made in South Carolina, I have not looked for a few months but I think you'll see most are produced in other countries.

 

[chevyforlife21]

buy the book history of winchester if you want accuracy. i suspect when you call winchesters boring your a ar15 and tactical plastic stuff fan. carefull youll get ripped up for calling legendary guns boring. personally i like both classic and new

 

[Owen]

highorder,

when FN won the contract for the M16, the governmetn improperly released the TDP to FN. Colt Sued, and won. FN was given the option to continue producing the M16, as long as they agreed to stay out of the commercial market with M16s

 

[Baba Louie]

and then along comes Mossberg, now making a nifty little lever action that looks all the world like the old model 94 itself.

http://www.mossberg.com/products/default.asp?id=31&section=products

Hmmmmmm. Trying to keep Marlin on their toes I suppose.

Curiouser and curiouser.

 

[alemonkey]

I still can't figure out for the life of me why they haven't reintroduced the model 94.

 

[DPris]

They have.
Two high-dollar commemorative rifles in .30-30, made by Miroku in Japan.
Denis

 

[Golden_006]

By the way I didn't mean to step on any toes . . . I actually could be an owner of a new-to-me Winchester. My dad's late friend left one to my brother who has no interest and I could get it if I want it; I am not crazy about a lever shotgun however. I think shotguns should be side by side or semi auto; no over and under either. i guess i might not be used to it.

Also, for christmas I bought my father a Winchester book and was looking through it one night; then a few days later was at the bookstore looking at Gun magazine where they had product reviews; I remember thinking to myself: "no wonder they went out of business, it looks like they were making the same gun for the last 80 years." . .. that's what I meant by boring . . . not that those old guns were boring . . .

 

[Gaffer]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and that applies to guns as well as art. Many of the older Winchester bring very high prices now so it appears that they are well sort after. I personally don't like the AR type of look but I own one in case we have to take our country back by force.

The reason we have many different gun manufacturers is that people have different likes and dislikes. To come on this forum and start spouting off why Winchester failed is wasted hot air. They failed for many reasons just as GM did. What appeals to gun buyers will help a company succeed and what doesn't will cause it ti fail. That doesn't mean that either the company or the buying public are right. To express otherwise is a fools errand.

 

[TexasBill]

Smith & Wesson's been making basically the same gun in different sizes and calibers for 110 years; nobody's calling them boring.

If you want a .223 from FN-Herstal, they have several interesting ones for sale to civilians, including the radical FS2000. For a more traditional gun, look at the SCAR-16.

Those willing to do a little history reading will find that John M. Browning began working with Fabrique Nationale in 1898. As I understand, he was having difficulty finding a U.S. manufacturer to produce his designs. He became FN's head designer and held that position until he died just over 83 years ago in Liege, Belgium. Browning did the original design of the GP-35 High-Power but it was FN's Dieudonné Saive, who succeeded Browning, who finished the work. Don't recall anyone complaining about the High-Power.

I own an FNP-9 and it is truly boring: it always works, the trigger is always smooth, it's monotonously fun to shoot, it's every bit as accurate as I am, it's easy to maintain, and it came with three magazines because the boring people in South Carolina didn't get the word that they can make more money by not including extra magazines (Yo! SIG! Ya listenin'?). Lacking in excitement, true, but I can live with that.

 

[mooner]

Actually the buying public is always right and the company needs to follow that to survive. As you said, companies that provide what the public wants at a price they are willing to pay survive. If a company cannot do that, it most certainly is not in the "right". The job of the company is to make money, not to preserve heritage. If preserving heritage is what makes you money, stick with it. If not, better find something that will.

 

[JohnBT]

Anybody have a complete collection of S&W bikes?

 

[DPris]

Browning was not employed by FN and had no problem finding buyers for his designs in the US. He sold many to Colt, Winchester & Remington.
Beginning a relationship with FN gave him the royalty basis that Winchester wouldn't (Winchester insisted on buying designs outright, and several were buried) along with better access to the European market.
Denis

 

[Golden_006]

Actually its a Winchester 94 that I could be getting. A lever action makes sense as a rifle. I like Winchester now