Wolf ammo & your AR15...

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I have shot Wolf 55 grain in my AR's with no problem. My main problem with Wolf (besides the smell) is that it chrno'd about 400 fps slower than M193. I just didn't like the slower speed. Also at about that time, South Afrikan surplus was available, so I loaded up on it at $279/2700. It was cheap enough that I didn't want to worry about Wolf any more. Now in the SAR 1's, that is all I shoot.
 
It isn't the lacquer that is causing the stuck cases and other reliability problems. It is the thick red sealant that they used to seal the bullet into the cartridge case.

Those of you that are having this problem, check your chamber next time you fire Wolf - you'll see a red gummy mess. The lacquer is green and doesn't melt off even at relatively high heats you are unlikely to see in a semi-auto.
 
I put 50 or 60 rounds of it through my Bushy Varminter. Had no sticks, but I didn't shoot very fast.
It does stink though!! Dang....
and I'm too used to my handloads giving my 1/2" groups at 100 yards. Seeing that 3 inch group was just uninspiring.

But, I was lazy and didn't load my own, and the ammo was borrowed, so I can't complain.

As far as buying it? Nah...I'll get bulk Black Hills or Winchester White Box if I need to stock up ammo.
 
My Q3131A only cost me $170 a case. Considering my Bushmaster is my home defense weapon I think the extra money is worth the difference.
 
Wolf ammo in AR-15

I have used it in my Colt AR with no problems, but with Sellier and Bellot at around $4.00 why bother? S&B is more accurate plus you have empty brass to reload. If you don't reload then save it for someone else I'm sure you can find a home for it as it's REALLY nice brass.
 
The steel case is boxer primed. I reloaded 20 rounds of it just to see if I could, worked fine, haven't fired it yet though.

rk
 
Ran 400 rounds through my DPMS Lo Pro Classic without any problems. Guy next to me at a plate shoot when I shot them off (I had mentioned to him it was my first time using Wolf) said he used then all the time in his Colt without any probs.
 
quote.
The steel case is boxer primed. I reloaded 20 rounds of it just to see if I could, worked fine, haven't fired it yet though.

rk
end quote.

If you haven't fired it...... how do you know it worked fine? :D

Just messin with ya. I haven't heard of anyone reloading the steel case stuff. Let us know how it works. I can't see it saving you much money reloading the stuff.

Along the same lines. I never understand why people will buy a case of the wolf stuff, say it's junk, and then stash it away for "a rainy day" or their "SHTF stash" Personally if I have any doubt about weather an ammo is going to function or not, that is the last thing I would stock up on no matter what the price is. I do shoot the 7.62X39 wolf ammo in my AK. As for my Colt and my ASA AR-15's, I buy the Winchester White box value stuff at Wallyworld. The stuff has never given me one problem.
Basicaly I say plink with the crap and stash the good stuff if you feel your life may depend on it.
Just my $.02
 
My Colt chews up Wolf ammo without any problems. I thing I have had a couple fail to feeds but that was due to the cheap 40 round mag and it was the 40th round in the mag.
 
have2rotties,

what I meant was it reloaded without any problem. The sizer didn't crush the neck, the primers seated deep enough, the bullets seated right, ect. The reason I put it up was cause I know it works in my gun and since its laquer coated it should store indefinitely. Also since its not what I want to shoot in my AR regularly I'll keep on reloading and leave that alone. Depending on the rain tomorrow I'll most likely try it out. No $ saving intended, I just got bored.


rk
 
If you agree with Jeff Cooper, (in this case I do, though I do not always...) and believe that the rifle is the "queen" of weapons, why would you feed Her Majesty McDonalds?

I beat the snot out of certain weapons that I own. My Ruskie guns get banged around and my shotguns get treated like the tools that they are (not pampered, but not coddled). My "good" rifles on the other hand, are treated as the precision insturments that they are. I have nothing against knocking them around on the outside, (muzzle crown not included) but the INSIDE, where it counts, gets the royal treatment.

Being that I am fairly poor at this time, I would love to save 70-90 bucks on a case of ammo. Be that as it may, I will not do anything to my rifle that may damage it's ability to function. I have heard that Wolf has caused some problems for many folks in their AR rifles. These reports are too frequent for me to ignore. Therefore, my rifle will never come into contact with it, unless it is the only option available. I will stick to NATO spec. ammo at the very least.

If this new lacquerless (sp?) Wolf works out, perhaps I will give it a try. But, there is a small voice in the back of my mind reminding me that steel cases and tight steel chambers do not mix well, even if the cases in question are very soft mild steel.

To each his own.
 
Again the S&B works great for $4.00 a box then you save the brass and reload the premium bulletts that would cost you $ 16-18 a box. Here in the northeast wolf runs about $3.50-3.75 a box then you throw away the cases instead of reloading them like you do with the 44.00 S&B
 
If you watch Bass Pro sales in the fall, they put Q3131A on sale for $2.88 a box. Did it about 3 times this past season. That works out to about $144/K for Q3131A. It don't get much better than that.
 
I figured it out once and decided that after 10,000 rounds, the savings in Wolf Ammo over something of good quality like XM193 would be enough to buy a whole new Rifle.

Which would be all well and good provided the rifle you're buying isn't a replacement for the one the Wolf crap tore up. :eek:

I guess no net loss is okay....for some.

Personally, between a complete 20" Bushy, a complete 20" Colt, Cav Arms/Bushy dissipator, and a 24" J&T, none have seen a cartridge of steel-cased ammo. And they probably won't.

Aside from the malfing chances, I just don't think the savings in money is worth the extra wear and tear on the rifle. They're not safe queens, but I grew up believing that you take care of what you have. For me, that means minimizing potential problems.

But that's just my opinion.
 
Some people look at steel case ammo from the wrong point of view.If i were a gun manufacturer,i would want my guns to function properly with any ammo commonly available on the market.Steel case ammo is NOT something that was just cooked up 5 years ago!!! If AR's are this sensitive to steel case,lacquered ammo then perhaps its the design of the gun that needs to be reexamined!
Ive NEVER had a lacquer or red sealant issue in ANY of my guns that have digested steel case such as Wolf and none of my guns are high dollar items.Sounds to me like AR's need to be pampered safe queens!!!
 
Which would be all well and good provided the rifle you're buying isn't a replacement for the one the Wolf crap tore up.

What's the difference? Spend more money for quality brass ammo or buy a new AR-15 if Wolf ruins yours after 10,000 rounds. If you look at the price difference ($99/case wolf vs. $170/case xm193) the money spent is about the same either way.

ignoring the fact that shooting 10,000 rounds of Wolf through an AR probably isn't going to destroy it in the first place
 
Been said before.

I will use Wolf in my SAR-1 AK, but not in my Bushy AR-15. It is just too dirty. Perfectly fine for the AK because it runs dirty without much trouble. But the AR-15 is too finicky I think for Wolf.

Actually, that is why I bought my AK - cheap plinker and I don't have to keep her clean.
 
I have used it with poor results. I had several duds (hard primers?) and jams but the thing that convinced me not to use it anymore in my ARs was a really bad stuck case that I had to pound out with a cleaning rod and a hammer.:what:

This was with a Rock River AR and a Colt. The bad stuck case happened to the Rock River but if I had shoot more of the Wolf through the Colt, it may have happened to that as well.

The main reason I got rid of my ARs and all my .223s was because ammo cost more than 7.62x39mm and the cheap stuff didn't seem to work as well. In my AK or my SKSs, the Wolf has been nearly 100%. I had a few jams in the AK but none in any of the five SKS that I own and I have shot case after case of the Wolf trough them.
 
The position held by Olympic Arms as stated on their website (As far as I am concerned, not gospel; but information, nonetheless. Still seeking info from other makers. Always glad to help muddy the waters):



Lacquer Coated Ammo
If you plan on using lacquer-coated ammo in your Olympic Arms AR-15, please be aware of the following. We have received many recent phone calls, as well as some rifles sent in for repair, complaining about reliability problems in their Oly Arms AR's. The first question usually asked is, "What ammunition are you using?" The answers to the question, as well as seeing the chambers of the rifles that were sent in are showing us that lacquer coated ammo is clogging the chambers badly.

What we are seeing is that once the chamber in the rifles gets hot, it is melting the lacquer off of the casings, and leaving a gelatinous goo in your chamber. Under continuous fire, this is usually not noticed, but once you stop, the barrel cools, the lacquer sets and you now cannot chamber and/or properly extract your ammunition. You will experience this in AR-15's much more frequently than other rifles such as the SKS and AK/MAC variants. In most cases the 7.62x39 rifles have chambers cut to the large end of the safety spectrum so that feeding and reliability is uncompromised by the type of ammunition or the consistency of the case dimensions. AR style rifles, and especially those from Oly Arms will have tighter chambers so that you can experience a greater level of accuracy that these rifles are capable of performing...
...Major brands of lacquer coated ammo we have seen are Wolf, most Russian ammo (even if it has the Remington head stamp), Norinco (or most Chinese) and most all former eastern block countries.


Our recommendations: DO NOT USE LACQUER COATED AMMO. Otherwise, be prepared for the consequences. Additionally, most lacquer-coated ammo utilizes steel cases instead of brass. BAD FOR YOUR CHAMBER.


The Consequences: Poor feeding, poor extraction, poor accuracy, and an impossible to clean chamber possibly resulting in a rifle that simply does not work.


Although Olympic Arms only warrants their firearms when used with new production brass cased US manufactured ammo, we would be remiss to think that the bulk of our customers do not use remanufactured, imported or reloaded ammo. We know that they will, and do. The reason that our warranty does not cover the use of this ammo is as much to protect you, as it is our product and our product. If you are using factory US new manufactured brass cased ammo, and something goes wrong and the rifle is damaged, the ammo manufacturer will usually take care of any repair costs. If not, and the damage can be proven to be the fault of the ammo, you have some sort of course of action you can take against that manufacturer to recover some or all of the expenses of the repairs. If you use foreign lacquer coated ammo as an example, you have NO options.


Is your rifle worth it?...

...What ammo should I use?

We recommend that you use brass cased domestically produced new production ammo only. There are many manufactures and types of ammo that meet these specifications, so your options are large. But remember this, any autoloading rifle is only as good as the ammo and magazines you use in it. I will never understand why a person would spend $800- $1,000 on a new firearms, and then go out and buy a whole case of the cheapest garbage ammo he can find, and then complain because his rifle does not work properly when firing it. To me this is a bigger mystery than Bigfoot or the Bermuda Triangle. Use junk ammo, get junk results. Use quality ammo, get quality results.

Fine Print Warning!

We have all heard this before, but it applies here as well; always read the fine print. There are several well known manufacturers of ammunition that also sell ammo that is manufactured over-seas and then imported to the US. Additionally, most major manufacturers offer "less expensive" lines of ammunition bearing their factory names. I will not single out specific brands other than the Winchester which has caused many a problem, there's no getting around that.

The thing that these major brands have going for them is the name recognition. People see names they recognize, and they by the ammo with confidence thinking it is a good quality ammo. But the fact remains, that this is not always the case. CHECK THE FINE PRINT!

I have some ammo in my hand, sold under a major brand name label. I have 6 boxes of ammo, all from the same manufacturer, and they manufactured in 5 different foreign countries and imported back into the US. Italy, R.P. (Haven't figured this one out yet), RSA (Republic of South Africa), R.O. Korea, are all represented on this list.

So what is quality ammo?

Here is a short (incomplete) list of quality ammunitions in no particular order:

Ammunition that has been used by Oly Arms as test fire ammo:

Hornady
Black Hills (new production)
Federal
PMC (US Manufactured only)
Remington (new, non-UMC brand)
American Eagle

Ammo that may cause reliability problems *:

Wolf
PMC (imported ammo only: READ the fine print)
Reloaded ammo if not properly re-sized
Winchester (imported only: read the fine print)

(*Based on customer reported reliability problems)
 
I find it interesting that Oly didn't address steel casings as an issue. It seems to me to be a significant consideration; perhaps less so than "lacquer", but still significant.
 
I'm suprised no one has mentioned the fact that Wolf doesn't use the red lacquer sealant any more, they use a gray polymer that doesn't gum up chambers. It's been this way for a few months now.
 
Wow this thread came back to life. We decided against using the Wolf & have been using Winchester 3131. I was wondering the same thing MMcCall. At the last gun show my son bought some Wolf 7.62 and the sales guy mentioned that it was made different now
 
I'm approaching 500 rounds of wolf (and maybe 60-90 Q3131A) in my AR without any cleaning (just some more CLP after a session). That includes dirty dropped mags and rounds, and firing prone in the sandpit. So far, no failures of any kind. :cool:
 
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