Woman arrested in Disney Land for concealed weapon
- Thread starter vzenmn
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skud_dusty
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- Feb 3, 2007
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My local news station made a huge deal about it.
Last night they played the clips that have been circulating. At the end the report says in a very astonished and scared voice, "The woman had SEVEN loaded live rounds of ammunition."
I wonder what would happen if she found out I daily carry 16 live loaded rounds in my Glock
Last night they played the clips that have been circulating. At the end the report says in a very astonished and scared voice, "The woman had SEVEN loaded live rounds of ammunition."
I wonder what would happen if she found out I daily carry 16 live loaded rounds in my Glock
Mongo the Mutterer
Member
Vector1 said:
This statement is proof you are a troll, my friend. Oh and saying you are "CCW since way back" when doesn't cut it. People who CCW know when they got their licenses. Oh, and if you want to buy a shotgun, buy it.
The words "fanatical" and "average Joe's" give you away. I and others on this forum can spot an elitist gun grabber from a mile off, and you certainly have the stench and have left a trail.
Have a nice day, now go away.
fletcher wrote;
I was not aware that CCW holders were elite or a cut above, but you obviously think so. When I took my course, there were plenty of people who had no clue about how to properly handle a firearm. Though brief and limited training did exist in the class, many were just as clueless as they were before hand. I personally know of a CCW holder who shot himself in the leg while cleaning his gun. I also know a victim of an idiot who was taking his gun out of his shoulder holster and pulled the trigger while doing so. He also had a CCW but was still a menace. The course is too short and I liken it to getting a DL. How often do you sit in amazement that so many pass their DL exam and are licensed on the road driving like maniacs? The CCW program has licensed some of the same type of people. Why you put so much faith into them (safety wise) is beyond me.
While I believe in the program and the right to carry, I certainly don't think the training is sufficient to educate or weed out people who are a danger to themselves or others (safety wise).
I don't understand the question.
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To those who have now decided I am not a troll ,but rather an "elitist", who knows maybe there is a little truth in that. I don't think of myself as an elitist and am not trying to come across that way. When I use terms like average Joe, I am speaking of people who have the desire to own something, but not the responsibility to learn how to do it properly. For example anyone can have kids, but cannot be a responsible parent.
I grew up around guns, and learned at an early age how to be a responsible owner. While any law abiding citizen should have the right to own a gun, some of them have no business walking around with them in public. When I go to places like Disney, I do not want to worry about untrained or irresponsible people with guns around my family.
BTW- For those who believe Disney only has unarmed security, Disney has armed personnel on site as well as Orange county sheriffs.
I was not aware that CCW holders were elite or a cut above, but you obviously think so. When I took my course, there were plenty of people who had no clue about how to properly handle a firearm. Though brief and limited training did exist in the class, many were just as clueless as they were before hand. I personally know of a CCW holder who shot himself in the leg while cleaning his gun. I also know a victim of an idiot who was taking his gun out of his shoulder holster and pulled the trigger while doing so. He also had a CCW but was still a menace. The course is too short and I liken it to getting a DL. How often do you sit in amazement that so many pass their DL exam and are licensed on the road driving like maniacs? The CCW program has licensed some of the same type of people. Why you put so much faith into them (safety wise) is beyond me.
While I believe in the program and the right to carry, I certainly don't think the training is sufficient to educate or weed out people who are a danger to themselves or others (safety wise).
I don't understand the question.
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To those who have now decided I am not a troll ,but rather an "elitist", who knows maybe there is a little truth in that. I don't think of myself as an elitist and am not trying to come across that way. When I use terms like average Joe, I am speaking of people who have the desire to own something, but not the responsibility to learn how to do it properly. For example anyone can have kids, but cannot be a responsible parent.
I grew up around guns, and learned at an early age how to be a responsible owner. While any law abiding citizen should have the right to own a gun, some of them have no business walking around with them in public. When I go to places like Disney, I do not want to worry about untrained or irresponsible people with guns around my family.
BTW- For those who believe Disney only has unarmed security, Disney has armed personnel on site as well as Orange county sheriffs.
You will always have DA's who have negilgent discharges. They are everywhere. Whether they are CCW or not is meaningless except that I would be willing to bet on a persentage basis far fewer CCW's have them than non's.
And I don't know what to think about your CCW class. Where was it taken? I just want to make sure and never have to take a class there. My first class and subsequent classes weed out inexperienced, irresponsible gun handling very, very quickly and those that cannot become profficient are not passed.
They are required to come back and take additional classes. What happens after that is anyone's guess but overall I think that CCW holders are a cut above. That is far from elitist. It simply means that we have gone through training and have a mindset that we carry firearms. We will be held to a higher standard when it comes to the use of firearms because of that. Elitist? Hardly. More like voluntary joining a group of more responsible persons. Any idiot that is not blind can get a DL. The same is not true of CCW. Not in my state anyways.
And I don't know what to think about your CCW class. Where was it taken? I just want to make sure and never have to take a class there. My first class and subsequent classes weed out inexperienced, irresponsible gun handling very, very quickly and those that cannot become profficient are not passed.
They are required to come back and take additional classes. What happens after that is anyone's guess but overall I think that CCW holders are a cut above. That is far from elitist. It simply means that we have gone through training and have a mindset that we carry firearms. We will be held to a higher standard when it comes to the use of firearms because of that. Elitist? Hardly. More like voluntary joining a group of more responsible persons. Any idiot that is not blind can get a DL. The same is not true of CCW. Not in my state anyways.
Markbo wrote;
I can go along with your % guess. However when person (A) discharges his weapon accidentally, it will probably be in his own home or business. When a CCW does it, it is more likely to be in public.
I took it through the Homestead police department, and it is my understanding that it was more stringent than many of the classes that have popped up now days to make a buck. Heck one guy who is "afraid of guns" took and passed a recent course. I thought for sure he would wash out, but he proudly displayed his CCW for all of us to see one night. Fortunately he does not carry, he has it just in case he ever wants to.
Personally I thought the officer teaching my class was good, but some of the girls and yahoo's in the class had even him worried. Heck one of the girls was talking with her hands on the range with a loaded gun
In Florida, you only have to renew once every 10 years by paying the fee in the mail, so no follow up testing is required. While that is convenient for me, it does nothing to help those who need the extra training that will otherwise not get any.
Again, I like the fact Florida has a CCW, and think the restrictions such as sporting events, hospitals, schools etc are reasonable. To the fanatics who think you should be able to carry a SAM into an elementary school, sorry, but reasoned and rational gun owners like myself do not agree with you.
I can go along with your % guess. However when person (A) discharges his weapon accidentally, it will probably be in his own home or business. When a CCW does it, it is more likely to be in public.
I took it through the Homestead police department, and it is my understanding that it was more stringent than many of the classes that have popped up now days to make a buck. Heck one guy who is "afraid of guns" took and passed a recent course. I thought for sure he would wash out, but he proudly displayed his CCW for all of us to see one night. Fortunately he does not carry, he has it just in case he ever wants to.
Personally I thought the officer teaching my class was good, but some of the girls and yahoo's in the class had even him worried. Heck one of the girls was talking with her hands on the range with a loaded gun
In Florida, you only have to renew once every 10 years by paying the fee in the mail, so no follow up testing is required. While that is convenient for me, it does nothing to help those who need the extra training that will otherwise not get any.
Again, I like the fact Florida has a CCW, and think the restrictions such as sporting events, hospitals, schools etc are reasonable. To the fanatics who think you should be able to carry a SAM into an elementary school, sorry, but reasoned and rational gun owners like myself do not agree with you.
A few points:
According to previous posters many people do carry in Disney. Doesn't seem to have done anything. You have to live with "irresponsible or untrained" people carrying at Disney right now, and nothing terrible has happened.
Disney is not banned for carry by Florida State codes.
And, if you don't want irresponsible or untrained people carrying at Disney, why would you want them at the mall, or walking down the street, or at the restaurant or at the supermarket (all of which I have recently carried, and all of which have kids)? What makes Disney so different? By your argument the risks of CCW carrying at Disney outwieghs the benefits, and I don't see how that would change anywhere else. An ND outside of Disney would still be an ND.
By your logic CCW should not be allowed anywhere. Yet you have a CCW, and carry. Just seems illogical.
According to previous posters many people do carry in Disney. Doesn't seem to have done anything. You have to live with "irresponsible or untrained" people carrying at Disney right now, and nothing terrible has happened.
Disney is not banned for carry by Florida State codes.
And, if you don't want irresponsible or untrained people carrying at Disney, why would you want them at the mall, or walking down the street, or at the restaurant or at the supermarket (all of which I have recently carried, and all of which have kids)? What makes Disney so different? By your argument the risks of CCW carrying at Disney outwieghs the benefits, and I don't see how that would change anywhere else. An ND outside of Disney would still be an ND.
By your logic CCW should not be allowed anywhere. Yet you have a CCW, and carry. Just seems illogical.
I don't consider myself a fanatic and disagree with a lot of the more extreme positions put forth on this site (for example, to note your strawman, I don't think people should own SAMs) , but I certainly think I should be able to carry my pistol at schools, hospitals, and sporting events the same way I carry everywhere else. As well as churches or nursing homes or the non sterile parts of airports or government offices or whatever other ridiculous exclusionary zones anti-gunners come up with. What harm is done carrying there that I would not do carrying anywhere else?
Not carrying in these places is just a form of white magic, as far as I can tell. No one actually intent on committing harm was stopped by a "no guns allowed" sign. And if you believe gun owners by their mere presence cause problems, than you might as well give up on CCW altogether.
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"When I go to places like Disney, I do not want to worry about untrained or irresponsible people with guns around my family."
Your statements don't seem consistent to me. If you believe in CCW (and apparently you do since you claim to have a license), then how do you decide which places are suitable (in YOUR view) to be around others who may have a CCW?
Presumably you go to movies, restaurants, shopping (malls department stores, etc), and numerous other places where CCW is allowed and I don't hear you complain about that. So why is it that going to Disney where other CCW's may be is such a bother to you? Besides, in ANY of these places, I would be a h*ll of a lot more worried about those thugs who are carrying WITHOUT a CCW than I am those who DO have a CCW.
Yes, I think your views sound eliteist and anti-gun to me. Your views are very common among those who think that only the "highly trained" such as police officers should be allowed to carry firearms in public. While you profess to own guns and believe in the right to CCW, your other statements indicate a different point of view.
Your statements don't seem consistent to me. If you believe in CCW (and apparently you do since you claim to have a license), then how do you decide which places are suitable (in YOUR view) to be around others who may have a CCW?
Presumably you go to movies, restaurants, shopping (malls department stores, etc), and numerous other places where CCW is allowed and I don't hear you complain about that. So why is it that going to Disney where other CCW's may be is such a bother to you? Besides, in ANY of these places, I would be a h*ll of a lot more worried about those thugs who are carrying WITHOUT a CCW than I am those who DO have a CCW.
Yes, I think your views sound eliteist and anti-gun to me. Your views are very common among those who think that only the "highly trained" such as police officers should be allowed to carry firearms in public. While you profess to own guns and believe in the right to CCW, your other statements indicate a different point of view.
Vector I wrote: "In Florida, you only have to renew once every 10 years by paying the fee in the mail, so no follow up testing is required."
That is FALSE. I just renewed mine and it had been only FIVE (5) years since last time. I'm beginning to wonder if you really have a license.
That is FALSE. I just renewed mine and it had been only FIVE (5) years since last time. I'm beginning to wonder if you really have a license.
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Mongo the Mutterer
Member
Of course he doesn't...
fletcher
Member
I disagree. A holstered weapon cannot have a negligent discharge. It's still more likely to happen at home or somewhere else where it is unholstered/reholstered/being cleaned.
They clearly are at least statistically more proficient (not that those without CCW can't be), as they have to have concern for both the law and their actions in order to obtain such a thing. If they weren't, you would see much higher accident rates among them, which, you don't. Maybe your class just sucked. Mine covered safety rules, safe handling, relevant law, and had a shooting portion (which was easy, but you still had to be able to load and shoot your own firearm with some form of accuracy).
DrewH
I assume they are telling the truth and have done so. However if I understand Disney's policy, they prohibit anyone including off duty LEO's from bringing firearms into the park. So if these people have brought firearms in they are disregarding the private property rights of Disney, are they not?
That is a fair question. My objection is that Disney is primarily full of children and if someone were to discharge their weapon, it would have a much greater risk to the children. While I accept that I could very well be accidentally shot in a mall or other place you mentioned, those places will not have as great a number of children.
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I can see that someone pointed out my error on the number of years for renewal. It is 5, though I thought it was 10. However all I did was send in my fees and no further training or classes were needed.
I assume they are telling the truth and have done so. However if I understand Disney's policy, they prohibit anyone including off duty LEO's from bringing firearms into the park. So if these people have brought firearms in they are disregarding the private property rights of Disney, are they not?
That is a fair question. My objection is that Disney is primarily full of children and if someone were to discharge their weapon, it would have a much greater risk to the children. While I accept that I could very well be accidentally shot in a mall or other place you mentioned, those places will not have as great a number of children.
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I can see that someone pointed out my error on the number of years for renewal. It is 5, though I thought it was 10. However all I did was send in my fees and no further training or classes were needed.
AZ Jeff
Member
That specific mention of "children getting accidentally shot" tugs on the heartstrings nicely, but is really irrelevant.
ANYONE getting accidentally/unintentionally shot is a "bad thing". It's not like it's any worse when it's children, in all honesty.
By your argument, ANY location where children are present should be a place where CCW should be prohibited. If you are the CCW permit holder you say you are, are you trying to tell us that you NEVER CCW where children are present?
Winchester 73
member
Begging Mr.Whites pardon,but by now everyone realizes why I called this impostor, Vector I ,out last night.
He is not an elitist,he is not confused, and he is not someone you can try to reason with and use logic on.6 or 7 posters tried that diplomatic approach and failed before my post, Mr. White.
He is purely and simply a troll casting our waters for responses and more red meat to chew on.And I am adding to it.
But as usual the more he responds, the more ignorance he reveals ,the more we know he is (forgive me again Mr.White, his only staunch defender)a troll.
Mongo the Mutterer has nailed him much more precisely than I and is very Senior.Please listen to him.And let Vector drift away.
He is not an elitist,he is not confused, and he is not someone you can try to reason with and use logic on.6 or 7 posters tried that diplomatic approach and failed before my post, Mr. White.
He is purely and simply a troll casting our waters for responses and more red meat to chew on.And I am adding to it.
But as usual the more he responds, the more ignorance he reveals ,the more we know he is (forgive me again Mr.White, his only staunch defender)a troll.
Mongo the Mutterer has nailed him much more precisely than I and is very Senior.Please listen to him.And let Vector drift away.
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Mongo the Mutterer
Member
thank you Winchester 73, I appreciate it.
Vector I, please Vector out.
Vector I, please Vector out.
Winchester 73
LOL,,,It figures you would take umbrage with one of the few posters who tried to be reasonable and rational. Mr White made it clear he did not agree with my overall position, but at least he is civil enough to disagree without labeling or name calling.
I guess that is a trait you have yet to mature into. Regardless, once you learn how to interact with others whom you do not share the same opinion with, will be the day you take a large step forward.
Despite him having been on the board much longer than either one of us, he is not even worthy of a response to his posts. The only reason I would even consider responding to him is to put him in his place regarding my CCW. While I could not care less whether he thinks I have one, I'd like to see if he wanted to put his money where his mouth is, say for $500.00
We could have a neutral person from the forum hold the money from both of us, and if I could not produce a current CCW he would get the money. Conversely, if I produce it, I get the money. In reality that would probably be a futile challenge since he is most likely all talk and no action, so he would not agree to backing up his mouth.
I actually find it mildly amusing that SOME of the posters find it so hard to believe that not everyone agrees with them on this issue. Furthermore, they find the need to assume anyone who is not lock step with them must be labeled a troll or a gun grabbing liberal. Maybe it makes them sleep better at night feeling things are always black or white with no middle ground.
LOL,,,It figures you would take umbrage with one of the few posters who tried to be reasonable and rational. Mr White made it clear he did not agree with my overall position, but at least he is civil enough to disagree without labeling or name calling.
I guess that is a trait you have yet to mature into. Regardless, once you learn how to interact with others whom you do not share the same opinion with, will be the day you take a large step forward.
Despite him having been on the board much longer than either one of us, he is not even worthy of a response to his posts. The only reason I would even consider responding to him is to put him in his place regarding my CCW. While I could not care less whether he thinks I have one, I'd like to see if he wanted to put his money where his mouth is, say for $500.00
We could have a neutral person from the forum hold the money from both of us, and if I could not produce a current CCW he would get the money. Conversely, if I produce it, I get the money. In reality that would probably be a futile challenge since he is most likely all talk and no action, so he would not agree to backing up his mouth.
I actually find it mildly amusing that SOME of the posters find it so hard to believe that not everyone agrees with them on this issue. Furthermore, they find the need to assume anyone who is not lock step with them must be labeled a troll or a gun grabbing liberal. Maybe it makes them sleep better at night feeling things are always black or white with no middle ground.
Disneyland is an internationaly known theme park, making it an ideal terrorist target, or target of some psyco out to be infamous.
I would think it is a better place for CCW than many. Not wanting guns around your children is the very reason the locations of your children are such prime targets. Amusement parks, universities, schools and other places prohibiting weapons "for the children" end up getting more children killed.
What you really do not like is CCW and what it stands for, wishing to legislate it out of effectiveness by limiting it to few public locations.
Some places already do that. There are states where someone cannot enter a place that serves any alcohol, even a family restaurant, and cannot have them in posted locations. Essentialy you are not free even with a license to use that license to offer protection to yourself or family in the places normal people go.
That removes the very purpose of CCW in my opinion.
If you wish to remove CCW, then work to do that. Don't remove the effectiveness of it while pretending to be in favor of it, but making it worthless in more locations. Oh wait, I guess that is what politicians do. Pretend to be in favor of various freedoms, while working to restrict them (with a smile and compliments of course.)
Furthermore having a CCW would prove nothing. Some of the Brady bunch have them, and some of the most anti gun politicians in CA and the nation, senators Diane Feinstein, and Barbara Boxer want to be protected by firearms, and carry them.
Barack Obama blames them for violence and thinks nobody needs a handgun (his own words), yet after feeling threatened earlier this year wanted lots of secret service members armed with handguns to keep him safe.
Wanting to be able to protect yourself, but not believing "commoners" should be able to do the same wherever they want is nothing new.
Wow. Troll or not, CCW or not, who cares? I thought this thread was about a elderly woman forgetting that she carried her gun into a theme park in Central Florida without a valid permit.
My $0.02 - She was wrongfully arrested, and I hope that she gets off on this technicality. I'm no lawyer, so I won't pretend that she'd have a hope of this, but if there's any justice whatever, this would serve it well. Beyond that, assuming she doesn't lose her right to own a gun for good, she should seriously consider remedying the lack of a permit for concealed carry in PA.
My $0.02 - She was wrongfully arrested, and I hope that she gets off on this technicality. I'm no lawyer, so I won't pretend that she'd have a hope of this, but if there's any justice whatever, this would serve it well. Beyond that, assuming she doesn't lose her right to own a gun for good, she should seriously consider remedying the lack of a permit for concealed carry in PA.
Zoogster,
The only thing I can say is that I believe in CCW's with some reasonable restrictions. I think Florida has stuck a good balance. The only grey area is the places that serve alcohol. A place like Bennigens would be an example locally. They have a sit down bar right in the middle of the restaurant, but it seems like it is more of a food service establishment. The way the law reads it would seem like you could be in violation if in the middle of the place, yet ok if in the surrounding areas.
I agree, but in some posters limited minds, I am claiming something that is not true. If they are willing to put their money where their mouth is, so am I. However I suspect they are keyboard commandos and will tuck tail and run rather than back up their myopic assumptions.
As to being part of the Brady bunch, I am also an NRA member, but if certain posters dont believe that, they are welcome to the same $500 challenge. The bottom line in this discussion is that I believe in a few more limitations on CCW's as they pertain to children's theme parks, Disney in particular. To some that makes me an ultra liberal communist who wants to ban all guns. We will see if any of the loud mouths are willing to put cold hard cash to back up their assertions. I will also bet there will not be any takers. Anyone care to take that bet, say for $100.00?
The only thing I can say is that I believe in CCW's with some reasonable restrictions. I think Florida has stuck a good balance. The only grey area is the places that serve alcohol. A place like Bennigens would be an example locally. They have a sit down bar right in the middle of the restaurant, but it seems like it is more of a food service establishment. The way the law reads it would seem like you could be in violation if in the middle of the place, yet ok if in the surrounding areas.
I agree, but in some posters limited minds, I am claiming something that is not true. If they are willing to put their money where their mouth is, so am I. However I suspect they are keyboard commandos and will tuck tail and run rather than back up their myopic assumptions.
As to being part of the Brady bunch, I am also an NRA member, but if certain posters dont believe that, they are welcome to the same $500 challenge. The bottom line in this discussion is that I believe in a few more limitations on CCW's as they pertain to children's theme parks, Disney in particular. To some that makes me an ultra liberal communist who wants to ban all guns. We will see if any of the loud mouths are willing to put cold hard cash to back up their assertions. I will also bet there will not be any takers. Anyone care to take that bet, say for $100.00?
Vector now that the flames have died down a little and you feel like asking people to back up the assertions, I would like to ask you to do the same again. If you don't mind I'll quote myself:
I'll accept that we have generally pro-gun people with varying degrees of support for "shall not be infringed." They probably would tell the brady group that their concerns are just made up fantasies and things don't happen like that in the real world. Concealed carry is no different example and I would challenge you to hold your ideas to the same level of scrutiny you would put the brady group's to.
jrfoxx
Member
And we've all seen the video of the DEA agent who shot himself in the leg, in a classroom full of children.Guess LEO's and federal agents shouldn't be allowed carry around his kids either....
Conversely, in Oregon, permit holders can (and do) carry in schools, bars, amusement parks, the airport (up until you get to the metal detectors to enter the boarding area), etc, and I am unaware of a single license holder having and AD/ND in any of those places..or murdering anyone with thier ccw either.
Constantine-p89
Member
Doc2005 said it best!!!
Zen21Tao
Member
I am very sorry to see this happen to an elderly lady that has probably never broken a law in her life. But, the gun laws are strict in Florida for a reason. Florida has some very liberal and very reasonable gun laws that benefit the law abiding citizen and as such FL take it very seriously when such gun laws are broken. While I find this a very fair trade off (strict enforcement for gun laws that benefit the law abiding), I do hope that either prosecutors exercise good judgment and not file on this case or that the jury refuses to convict in this case (jury nullification).
It's always been a dream of mine to go on that ride with a shotgun and LOTS of ammo.
This may have been talked about but if the lady had her permit and the gun was discovered what would security have done..? Asked her to leave or just allowed her to lock it up as some of the members here have done at parks.?
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