Wondering about some THR member voters

[jnojr]

If I'm given a choice between two evils, I think I'll choose the one that's more likely to let me keep my guns for longer.

The infinity of possible choices everyone could make marches off into an infinity of potential futures. I believe that more and more of those potential futures include a "police state" type of environment here, possible secessions / civil war, economic troubles/collapse, etc. I hope that doesn't happen, and when I'm 80 I can look back and laugh at myself for having been so silly. But... if any of that does come to pass, I'd prefer to face it armed.

 

[cracked butt]

"Gee, we passed the Patriot Act, McCain-Fiengold and all other sorts of vile legislation yet the voters returned us to office.

Another reason to vote against any DEMOCRTIC incumbent, they overwhelming supported these laws. True, the Republicans voted in favor as well, but they aren't bent on taking more ground from citizens by banning guns.

 

[Biker]

Good God...So many in favor of keeping those in power who would deny the people of America their Freedoms, regardless of party affiliations.
Do y'all really want to sit in your houses, hunkered down, waiting for BATFAG to come for you so you can go out in a blaze of glory?
I don't.

Think about it...

Biker

 

[afsnco]

Yep, I've added to my mag collection. I remember what happened to hi-caps the last time Dems had control of congress. I've also already got an evil black gun that I've locked away, because I know that if they're not secured they'll sneak out and kill innocent children. The one I have is especially evil: It has a bayonet lug

 

[noops]

Deadlock might not be so bad

That's laughable. All the Democrats will do is raise taxes and ban guns. How will that slow things down?

Actually there is some good evidence for this. A national study was done on state house/executive control by state. It showed that Republican run states had the worst fiscal records, Democrats had a slightly better record (I know unbelievable, but true), and the best records were by states that had mixed governments. Am trying to re-find this study. Will add when I find a link.

Noops

 

[Zundfolge]

Good God...So many in favor of keeping those in power who would deny the people of America their Freedoms, regardless of party affiliations.

The choice is between Republicans and Democrats ... I don't care what other parties are out there, those in control will be in one of those two parties.

For me the issue is that the Democrats are much worse.

No I'm not 100% happy with the GOP right now ... but they are more pro-2A than the DNC and I like the tax cuts (good for the economy ... the DNC wants to ruin our economy with tax increases, more regulation, higher minimum wage and socialized medicine).

 

[noops]

Study found

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2003-05-18-spend-usat_x.htm

Noops

 

[Chuck Dye]

Those considering not voting or voting third party might want to read

http://www.ornery.org/essays/warwatch/2006-10-29-1.html

the stakes riding on which party controls congress next January are very high and very real.

(Thank you Lawdog for the link.)

 

[Soybomb]

I like all of my liberties. The republicans only like some, the Democrats only like some. Guns are not the end all decision factor for me. If I give up all of my rights just to keep guns, what good are the guns supposed to be? In a way shouldn't they protect themselves?

To quote Harry Browne - Left-wing politicians take away your liberty in the name of children and of fighting poverty, while right-wing politicians do it in the name of family values and fighting drugs. Either way, government gets bigger and you become less free.

 

[ETXhiker]

The Republicans have traditionally been the party of smaller government, lower taxes and strict constructionist judges. The Dems are becoming the party of socialism.

Although I disagree with most of the anti-Bush hysteria, those of you who think the sky is falling should remember that he will be gone in 2 years. If you want Hillary in '08, go ahead and vote Democrat today. Then you can enjoy higher taxes, more gun control and Janet Reno style assaults on the freedom of average Americans, not just jihadists. They will use the "fairness doctrine" to get rid of conservative talk radio and then the traitorous New York Times will be the voice of the country once more. The left wants socialism and socialism can't exist in a truly free country. You think we have problems because, during a war, someone gets a call from Afghanistan and gets a little scrutiny from the people in charge of finding terrorists? You have no idea what the left is capable of if they get full control. Most Republican politicians are aware that their supporters are not happy right now and probably wish they had a do over on the last couple of years. The left, on the other hand, IS doing what its base wants when they try to control our lives. You want to turn this whole country into California? Massachusetts? The states everyone of the board calls, "The Peoples Republic of..."

Yeah, vote for the left, that'll show those silly Republicans.

 

[C. Rabbit]

Hmm. I'm considering the following issues; the WoT, taxes and economy, gun rights, SCOTUS appointments.
The dems, as a party, have no stomach for a long or hard war. Running from Iraq will have made our emmense toil there useless, and be a huge blow to our perception in the eyes of the terrorists, and simultaneously give a huge boost to the terrorists. This will not end the WoT, the dems will just try their hardest to ignore it as terrorists step up their attacks.
The dems want to raise taxes, which will, of course, hurt the economy. They will want to fund more useless programs and raise taxes further. They will be very bad for the economy.
The dems are, as a party, against gun rights. They aren't running it as a platform, but they will doubtless be tempted to enact new restrictions, unlike the republicans.
Importantly, whoever controls the Senate controls any Supreme Court appointments, which unfortunately are very powerful. This could determine if the court continues becoming more pro-constitution or reverts back to a more activist court than that which took away property rights in a recent case. Challenges to un-constitutional laws will wind up in the SCOTUS; do you want a more pro-rights one or not?

Yes, the republicans have been bad. But dems will be worse, and we have a two party system, so not voting is helping the dems. You can cut off your nose to spite your face, but you may wish you had that nose back down the road.

CR

 

[Sean Dempsey]

I am sad to see that people vote SOLELY on 2A issues. Wow. That's pretty ridiculous.



Democrats might want to take away your guys, yeah... but Republicans, they want to take YOU away. And I supposed you'll need those guns when living in a totalitarian Republican police state.

I can't wait until your pro-2A republicans come after YOU, all they have to do is claim you're a terrorist. Sure, they want good citizens to keep their guns. But there's no way to know who is a good citizen and who is a terrorist, is there?

so what are you, a good citizen or a terrorist? I'll tell you: you're whichever fits their needs at the time.

Sure, Democrats MIGHT want to disarm you. But Republicans? They MIGHT want to arbitrarily declare you a terrorist and enemy of the state.

You can't win. Don't vote.

 

[cpaspr]

Actually, Noops,

using increases in state spending isn't really a good measure, since many "increases" are the result of prior year budgets passed by the "other" party. And don't take into account population increases which cause tax revenues to increase, etc.

A better measure is how well the state lives within it's means. States that are run by conservatives (read: Republicans), generally tend to have lower deficits.

___________________


Also, we should all remember that the Second Amendment guarantees all the others. Without it, the Bill of Rights isn't worth the parchment it's written on. No candidate or party will meet all the desires of any voter; and unfortunately it often really is a choice between the lesser of two evils rather than between one good and one bad.

 

[GoRon]

Vote Democrat, vote libertarian/3rd party.

The Supreme Court pick(s) President Bush will make shouldn't influence you. Of course if the Republicans don't hold the Senate the chances of getting someone at least as good as Alito/Roberts are slim to none. Who cares?

We need more moderate Supreme Court picks who believe the constitution is a living document. We need more judges like Ginsberg. They can make it up on the fly!

Your vote doesn't matter, don't vote at all!! Let the Democrats set the agenda for awhile. They don't want to take your guns, I haven't heard them talk about it so they must have changed their minds.

We don't want an originalist to take Ginsberg or Stevens place on the court. We want the Democrats to run the Senate and dictate to the President what type of judge he can nominate. A nice living constitution activist judge, someone Ted Kennedy can be proud of.

 

[Houser52]

Have I lost any freedoms under the Republicans? None that I can think of.
I'm not planning a terrorist attack or anything to try to overthrow the government. So I don't care if I'm being watched or if the gov is listening to my phone calls.
If the gov captures a known terrorist and has to beat the crap out of him in order to get info to protect US citizens, what's wrong with that? If he's going to blow up innocent people, the h*** with his so called rights. Do what is necessary to save innocent lives.
If the anti gun people are in control I would be more afraid of being imprisoned for selling a friend or relative one of my rifles for deer hunting or a gun to protect his family.

 

[Sean Dempsey]

Have I lost any freedoms under the Republicans? None that I can think of.
I'm not planning a terrorist attack or anything to try to overthrow the government. So I don't care if I'm being watched or if the gov is listening to my phone calls.

You think YOU'RE the one who decides what is a terrorist activity and what isn't? You don't think that the gov't arbitrarily decides who to act against and who not to?

You don't care if you're being watched eh? You sure put ALOT of trust in your government. I am sure they all want what is best for you. They'll protect you, from yourself if need be.

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

I would suggest that remaining outside the major parties and counting on a third party to win is not near as effective as remaining inside the major parties and changing the platform from within.

Changing the platform certainly won't be easy; but it will be a lot easier than building a third party from the ground up - and that is exactly what will have to be done to go the third party route.

 

[Zundfolge]

I am sad to see that people vote SOLELY on 2A issues. Wow. That's pretty ridiculous.

There's lots of other reasons to vote for Republicans and against Democrats.

Virtually every complaint I see in these forums about Republicans can apply to the Democrats. If you honestly think most Democrats in power don't love the patriot act and the war on drugs you're not dealing in reality.

The ONLY complaints I see about Republicans that the Democrats wouldn't do the exact same thing is on the gay rights front and the issue of abortion (oh and they would cut and run from Iraq).



I believe it will be easier to change the GOP over time and return them to their small government pro freedom roots than changing the DNC.

 

[Houser52]

Just because torture and wire tapping has been in the news lately doesn't mean that it hasn't been around for years and years. Does anyone really think it just started since 9/11 and by the Republicans?

 

[orangelo]

I was harassed by the federal government an infinite amount more under the 'rats than Republicans. Because of the klinton ban I even got a visit from the ATF because a dealer might have sold me magazines that weren't really pre-ban as advertised. So far I've had 0 government visits from the Republicans.

1 atf visit because of klinton divided by 0 visits under Bush = undefined number aka infinity

So voting demon'rat is infinitely bad.

Now one of you whiners that parrot the leftwing 'Bush is taking away all my rights' nonsense give an example of how you have personally faced persecution under the Patriot Act. I'll bet none of you drama queens can.

 

[cpaspr]

Wrong !

GoRon - They don't want to take your guns, I haven't heard them talk about it so they must have changed their minds.

Just because they shut up about it doesn't mean they've changed. They know they can't win when they reveal their true agenda, so they hide it till the people forget who they're dealing with and the Democrats are back in power, then bring it back out again.

That's why if they win you can bank on your taxes going up and your gun rights being attacked. Again. They cannot change who or what they truly are, any more than a leopard can change it's spots. They can just hide till it's (apparently) safe to come out again.

 

[Malone LaVeigh]

States that are run by conservatives (read: Republicans), generally tend to have lower deficits.

Noops cited a report to back his assertion. Can you?

I would suggest that remaining outside the major parties and counting on a third party to win is not near as effective as remaining inside the major parties and changing the platform from within.

These days I tend to agree with that sentiment. I was 3rd party up till this year. I still don't (didn't today) vote the party line. I just think there's a better chance of making a difference working within the Dems and just don't think I could get along very well with local Repubs. I am who I am and would rather hang out with people who care about human rights, future generations and giving the little guy a break than the others. Though I know a lot of Dems have been misguided on how they pursue thos goals, that is still the tyoe of person I'm likely to fit in with better. Therefore, I can do a better job promoting RKBA with that group than the authoritarian types that populate the Repubs.

 

[BigFatKen]

"Three words to remember as you go to the polls today: Speaker Nancy Pelosi"
---------------------------------------
Now thats scarey

How about if the Dems win the Senate, there will be no chance of confirming a pro-2a Justice to SCOUS.

What about these words " Cheif Justice Rodam voted with Justices Schumer and Feinstein for .........?"

 

[Gordon Fink]

Now … give an example of how you have personally faced persecution under the Patriot Act. I’ll bet none of you drama queens can.

Not legally.

~G. Fink, who isn’t voting for any known Democrats anyway

 

[Joe Demko]

Now one of you whiners that parrot the leftwing 'Bush is taking away all my rights' nonsense give an example of how you have personally faced persecution under the Patriot Act. I'll bet none of you drama queens can.

Are you ready for your close-up, Ms. Desmond? Okay, you had a visit. Did they beat you up? Did they rape your dog? Did they kill your wife? Did they burn your house down? Did they even confiscate the magazines in question? You used some very provocative words to describe the visit from BATF, so either come across with some details or admit you were dramatizing.