Working in some "bad" places, would like training advice

[Slappy McGee]

I'm going to be travelling to some "bad" places for work in the coming months. Libya, Angola and Nigeria are on the list and while I've travelled and worked abroad quite a bit, this will be my first time in places with, shall we say, an ill repute.

I'll have a bodyguard in the nasty ones (he can call me "Al" ) but other than striking a weaver pose and putting holes in a stationary piece of paper at 3-20m I don't know the first thing about handling a weapon in an urban combat situation. Getting involved in bad situations won't be an explicit part of my job, but just in case I'd like to know what to do if I came under fire. In terms of training, I don't want to play "operator" for a weekend, rather I'd like to know how to move and return fire under cover, get experience engaging moving targets, and using/transitioning between a rifle and pistol. I'm primarily interested in a simulated urban environment rather than kicking down doors and playing SWAT.

Ideally I'd like something close to Charlotte, NC but don't mind flying for the best possible experience. I'm also thinking as much as I'd like to do this type of course with my tacticool M4gery, a stripped down AK would be what I would most likely encounter and that's what I should run with. Does that make sense?

Again, this is all new to me so your patience is appreciated!

 

[Fred Fuller]

IMHO you need to work on the handgun first. Let's see what the itinerants are up to...

http://www.defense-training.com/sched/schedform.html
25-26 Oct 08 Fighting with a Handgun, Columbia, SC
Here's a chance, if Oct. is soon enough. John Farnam will give you your money's worth.

http://www.yfainc.com/schedule.html
Louis seems to be cutting back on his east coast adventures... I hate to see that but economic realities cannot be ignored, I suppose.

http://www.randycain.com/
Randy's mostly in FL for the rest of the year...

http://www.morr-con.com/schedule.html
Nothing close from Bill Jeans...

http://www.tridentconcepts.com/index.aspx
Jeff Gonzales has a carbine class in Charlotte on 24- 25 Oct...

http://www.rangemaster.com/
Tom's crew doesn't have anything in the area... if you can make it to Memphis 24-26 Oct, you can take advantage of a threefer- Ed Lovette, 'Southnarc' and Tom Givens in one training weekend. Go to the class schedule, and click on Full Spectrum Self Defense down toward the bottom of the list for a full description. This one is a LOT of bang for the buck, I can guarantee you. I have seen all three of these gentlemen at work.

http://www.vikingtactics.com/instruction.html
Kyle doesn't seem to have anything open in time to meet your needs, or close by either.

That's everyone I know in the travelling show business, I'd be happy for other members to chime in with the many I have undoubtedly missed. In fact I am going to set up a 'sticky' of traning links based on the number of questions that come up repeatedly about this issue.

Y'all PM me your school favorites, fixed base or travelling, and I will set up a state by state list for future reference.

Thanks,

lpl

 

[ZeSpectre]

Are you even going to be allowed to be armed in these places?
If so you must have some serious connections.

Anyway, first off I'd go to the Dept of State page
http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/a2z/index.htm

For example the warning about Nigeria (http://www.travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/tw/tw_928.html) starts out with this paragraph (and there is lots more, you should read).

October 30, 2007

This Travel Warning is being issued to warn U.S. citizens of the possible dangers of travel to Nigeria, and to note the continued unstable security situation in the Niger Delta region. American citizens should defer all but essential travel to Delta, Bayelsa, and Rivers states because of the very high risk of kidnapping, robbery, and other armed attacks in these areas. American citizens who are resident in the Delta are strongly advised to review their personal security in light of the information contained in this Travel Warning when deciding whether to remain. The ability of the U.S. Government to provide consular services to Americans in these areas may be limited. This Travel Warning supersedes the Travel Warning for Nigeria issued January 19, 2007.

So in all seriousness, that region is WAY past "maybe I need a handgun for self defense". If you aren't already well versed in firearms handling and use I fear it may be too late to get up to speed and your best tactic(s) will be escape and evade and let the professionals handle the wetwork.

Don't misunderstand me, go ahead and take the classes if you can get into them, but don't let it give you a false sense that you are ready and protected when going into those areas, you will most likely need to depend heavily on others for your security.

(p.s. Somebody must be paying you a HELL of a lot of money! I know you couldn't drag me to Nigeria or Libya right now)

 

[Loosedhorse]

You need to know this why? In case the body guard throws you a piece during the attack? Or because you'll be packing?

If the latter--my hat's off to you. We're talking a serious amount of pull!

How about a few extra BGs, a lead car and a trail car?

And prayer--best of luck.

(If the BG is going to throw you anything, maybe make it a machinegun. Then you can head off to Nevada and train for full-auto at Front Sight.
http://www.frontsight.com/courses/M16-training-assault-rifle.asp
Just a thought. )

 

[Slappy McGee]

Lee,

Thanks for your very helpful links. I'll check them out and that "triple play" option in Memphis seems like a decent place to start.

Fortunately or unfortunately I won't be armed, since my "connections" and $6 will get you a coffee at the local starbucks.

I'd like to know these types of skills as worst case insurance (I already have AD&D, medivac, kidnap, etc). I don't have any illusions of Mr. Bodyguard tossing me an AK and fending off a squad of jihadists as we high five each other and a stirring soundtrack rises in the background, but I'd like to have some rudimentary skills in case the poop hits the fan I can do something other than cower in fear, plus I've been meaning to take some "real" training and see what it's like, and this gives me a good excuse. I'm competent on basic firearms skills, but again I have no experience in a "dynamic" environment and the most cover work I've done is putting on my ear muffs.

I'm "in country" for 2 week stints and after the less desirable places I get to bop around Asia, Europe and LA, so it's not all Lagos and Libya (oh my).

 

[ScottyT]

The poorer you look and the crappier your transportation the safer you will be.

 

[Slappy McGee]

The poorer you look and the crappier your transportation the safer you will be.

Yeah, I plan to leave the bling bling at home, although it's going to be a bit hard to blend in as a chubby white guy in Africa.

 

[TallPine]

I think I would work as a greeter at Walmart before going to some of those places

 

[rainbowbob]

...I am going to set up a 'sticky' of traning links...

That's a great idea...thanks Lee.

 

[Slappy McGee]

I think I would work as a greeter at Walmart before going to some of those places

I enjoy seeing different parts of the world, even the crappy ones. Makes me appreciate what I've got and realize most human beings are more alike than different. Plus it will be good stuff to tell my kids about someday .

 

[CWL]

Libya and Angola aren't going to be any trouble.

If you work petroleum, then no handgun is going to protect you in Nigeria. BG do lots of assaults and kidnapping, a novice with a handgun doesn't have much of a chance v. automatic rifles.

Either trust in your security detail, or don't travel.

 

[strambo]

Well, if you won't be armed...why not focus on unarmed skills. They should be the foundation anyway and you won't ever be without them.

These guys have 2-2.5 day courses that are outstanding, I'd get to one of these if I was in your position. www.targetfocustraining.com Go to the products/training page, they have a special going on for the rest of 2008. 1 class in OCT in Vegas, Nov in Miami and San Diego in the beginning of December.

Also try www.jimwagnertraining.com He trained the guy who did the "Searching For Bin Laden" film in terrorism survival skills before he headed over to the Middle East. I've taken live training from Jim Wagner, it is very good. His week long course would be best...if you have the week to spare and the schedule works out.

At a minimum, a 2-3 day shooting course and a 2+ day hand to hand training course would put you ahead of 99% of the human population in terms of combat survival skills, to include any lowlifes you may encounter in the 3rd world...they'll just have an advantage of numbers and weapons.

 

[gmark340]

Other courses

I didn't see anyone mention Larry Vickers. He bases out of Fayettville and has probably been to some or all those places in his previous life. He has some really good pistol and carbine courses:

http://www.vickerstactical.com/Training/2008Schedule.aspx

I've taken a couple of his pistol courses and definitely felt that I not only learned some "real world" lessons but significantly improved my shooting.

 

[ezypikns]

Would it be possible for you to get some 'Press' credentials?

Maybe from a local paper in your area. I really don't know if this is any kind of a good idea or not, but my impression (maybe completely wrong) is that journalists may be given a little more leeway.......or maybe they'll just concentrate their fire on you.

 

[AndyC]

Ok, so you're likely familiar with AR15s, so rather get equally familiar with what will be available over there as AR15s aren't common - I lived in Africa most of my life, so I would train with AK's, H&K G3s, Galils and FN-FALS as well as CZ 50/70/75s, Tokarevs, Makarovs, Beretta 92s and Browning HPs.

You'll be in a potentially hostile environment with what sounds like a single BG (and I hope to hell he's not going to be the driver as well - a driver can't do much except drive when you're under fire). You will not be allowed to carry firearms but you *might* need to be competent with anything you might come across (or be able to figure it out in a hurry) - highly unlikely, but training is training.

The likelihood of you actually returning any fire yourself would be about 1/10,000, so I would spend a fair amount of time studying the K&R dos and don'ts (Kidnap & Ransom) - you might need to know certain things to stay alive if you're kidnapped. Buy a few Krugerrands and sew them inside the waistband of your pants, if you like. Don't visit prostitutes and don't go stupid places. Dress as much like a local as/when you can and keep your eyes open - awareness is king, so listen to the little voice if it speaks. Figure out where the nearest safe refuge (hospital, police station, embassy, etc) is beforehand and know how to get there alone if need be; a lot of people die in Africa because they didn't know where to go next, so get your bearings quickly.

I would agree that Nigeria will be the likeliest country for problems (it's a sh*thole), with Angola behind that, then Libya, but that doesn't mean you can relax and act like a dimwit tourist in Libya - stay awake.

 

[wheelgunslinger]

Blackwater is in Moyock NC on the coast. With enough funds, you can get private training from some very good trainers there.
And, they have the facilities to provide you training on how to be a better bodyguarded principal.

But, if you're in Charlotte, Moyock isn't a far ride in a car and is a short flight from Douglas.

*points at self* born in Charlotte.