Working loads up with 296

Bazoo

Bazoo

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Cecilia, Ky
If the manual lists 16 to 17 grains for a 357 magnum load, with my bullet. How does everyone else work up a load? I’ve seen little to no difference in accuracy when working up by .2 of a grain. I don’t have a chronograph so I can’t say what the velocity difference would be. For those that have done it, would you mind sharing how much velocity difference I’ll have from min to max.

This is a general question about load work up, not specific to x bullet. I have worked with several different bullets in the past and I notice this trend with this powder and am curious as to what others do.
 
For the old W296/H110 there really isn't any work-up so far as I've been able to tell over the years with 44 mag loads. Revolvers don't get into issues with cycling and ticking up or down a fifth of a grain doesn't seem to matter enough to be noticable so far as accuracy in a handgun goes. It doesn't play well with downloading so generally it's a book recipe type of thing. Of course for those who enjoy proof testing their sixguns there will be some who will advocate adding powder for max velocity until you see pressure signs then back off a tick. Frankly there is only so far to go with a 357 or any other handgun round before a different cartridge would be a better idea.
 
I do have a chrono.

Keeping in mind that H110 works best with a full case... When working up a load I just keep adding powder until velocity flattens out. IOW, when an additional .x grain adds no velocity, that's the end.

I did notice that additional velocity almost always equaled better accuracy; at least in the revolvers I shoot.

Notice: this pertains only to H110 powder in 357 Mag.
 
Preciate the replies. Still I wonder how everyone else approaches a 1 grain min to max load development?
 
With h110 i start a couple grains below max and then went up by .5. When looking at 15+ grains a load I am not good enough to see any changes at .2. In a little 380 I do .2.
 
Bazoo said:
Still I wonder how everyone else approaches a 1 grain min to max load development?
Click to expand...

It's more of a 'why.' There can be a difference in burn efficiency between, for your example... 16-17grn. That .5 to 1.0grn may make a difference in efficiency, and it may or may not show up on paper.

Although it has a slightly wider window... I found that very thing with IMR4227, 1grn difference made ALL the difference.


From the pressure side... using QuickLoad... and the Hornady 158grn XTP (to use a bullet many are familiar with...)

16grn H110 shows 98% case fill, and 85% max pressure (30K PSI, 1750fps from a 20" barrel) and 88% burn
17grn H110 shows 104% case fill, and OVER MAX Pressure (37K PSI, 1850fps) and 91% burn...

...so, yes, that 1grn workup is valid. Because a powder like H110 is already at near maximum, there is little room to work up... but it's still the safest way to do it. If I was working up your load, I'd start at 16grn and work up in .3grn.
 
Both charges will produce a magnum level load. I would load a few of the lighter load and if they shot well I would just go with them. I think I still have an older can that stated to not deviate from the data on the can. Yet the loading manuals do.
 
I usually start a couple of grains above the minimum and end a couple of grains below the maximum when I do my load development. So for your load it would look like this for me, 16.2, 16.5. 16.8 grains. All of my load development is with the intention of duplicating factory ammo as closely as possible so my chronograph is a must..
 
If I recall correctly, Winchester’s original load data for .357 Magnum and their 296 powder stated 16.6 grains with a 158 gr jacketed bullet. DO NOT REDUCE! Granted, that was back in the 70’s, and many published manuals since then list reduced loads, as well as lower (and some higher) maximum charges for various bullet weights.
I have always loaded .357 Magnum between 16.0 and 17.0 gr with 158 gr jacketed bullets when using W-296/H-110 and have experienced good accuracy and consistent velocity without significant differences. Also use the recommended magnum primers and firm roll crimp.
 
I appreciate the replies. I don’t particularly care for the powder in question but I have a couple pounds of it. Unfortunately, I have about 1/4-1/3 a pound from 3 different eras / lots. It looks slightly different from one another. I also have a nearly full pound. I been wanting to use it up And I’ve always wondered what others did as far as work up.

I have a good clean shooting load worked up with 357 using 38-150-swc. I have a single box of xtps to load too. Be my first time loading jacketed in 357 magnum.
 
H110 or 296 is very good. Load it up to 357 magnum load and enjoy it. 2400 better for lswc but 296 is the powder for xtps.
 
I like W296/H110. But, I do not stray from published data, either up or down.

If I remember correctly, Winchester does not recommend max data reduced more than 3% so if the published data is greater than that, I do not reduce the load more than that.

As long as the max load of any published data is not wildly higher than the average of the rest, I have found it to be safe. Load data outside the averages of the rest, I find to be questionable.

I use W296/H110 in 357 Mag, 30 Carbine, .410-2-1/2” shot shell and 300 Black out. If I ever load 44 Mag or 41 Mag loads, I will probably use W296/H110.

I have not used 2400 since the Hercules days but I did not like it then. Too much unburned powder left behind. IMR 4227 did not light my fire either.

One of these days, I’ll try Accurate#9.

Your “milage” may vary.
 
You’re doing what can be done with H110/W296. 10% reduction on a 17grn max is only 1.7grn, and there’s rarely any sense in loading any closer than 0.2grn increments, and most people don’t even have equipment capable of doing smaller steps anyway, so what you’re doing is what is done.
 
cfullgraf said:
I have not used 2400 since the Hercules days but I did not like it then. Too much unburned powder left behind. IMR 4227 did not light my fire either.
Click to expand...

I was pretty disgusted with IMR4227 the first time I tried it... which was a starting load in the .41MAG. Dirty, smoky, poor accuracy. But then I ramped the powder charge up... and got much better results. IMR4227 likes a full case, as does 2400 (within published data, of course.) I never really had good luck with 2400, either, not in pistols... but it works really well in .41MAG rifle, and as a reduced load for the .45-70.
 
How I work up a load for 357 with a 158 is:
I use a Magnum primer. Then put 16.5 grains in the case and seat to the cannelure or crimp groove. Be sure and crimp it firmly.
I've used cast, Speer, Hornady, and Sierra bullets without noticing a difference.
@Charlie98 put the numbers that pretty much match my experience.
If I go over 16.5 with some cases or bullets I start deforming bullets. If I go much under. I get worse accuracy.
It's kind of like some people's Varget loads in 223.
 
The reason why the load manuals recommend such a small loading window for H110 / Win 296 is that it only really burns well at high pressures and also why you never see it listed for low pressure cartridges, or low capacity cartridges.

In this case if I were given a load range of 16-17 grains I would load up 5 or 10 each of 16, 16.5, and 17 grains, and I would shoot them over the chronograph and check that I'm getting velocity that makes sense, no unburned powder left in the case, no flattened primers, and cases don't take an unusual amount of force to push out of the cylinders. If you start getting sticky extraction then its time to stop and back up. If you make it to 17 and everything looks happy, then you are good to go.
 
I appreciate the replies. Like I said, I’ve used the powder before but, it isn’t as comfortable to me as other, more forgiving powders.
 
It is actually a very forgiving powder in 357, 41, and 44 mag because its difficult to get enough of it in the case to cause a pressure problem with most bullet weights. Just doesn't burn well with too light of a load.
 
In 44's with 6 inch barrels the 1 grain min to max only amounted to about 75fps in my guns. I little more in my rifle but not much. I use to just load max. Now I just load halfway. The difference in accuracy and speed isn't worth worrying about.
 
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