Working Up a 223 Load. When to Stop?

[G. Freeman]

Hello Guys,
Been reloading for rifles for only 8 yrs or so. I have this Colt 6720 HBAR, 20 in, with 1-9 twist. I have been shooting my reloads using Hornady 55 gr FMJBT with IMR 4064 and H4895. Shooting from bench with front rifle rest and rear bag.

Charge: 24.0, 24.3, 24.5 using H4895. I have shot close to 400 rounds total of these various combinations. Just when I thought one load was doing better, I pull out all of my old targets only to realize the groups have been fairly consistent averaging ~1.5 moa at 100 yds.

In contrast, I have shot ~60 rounds of my 69 gr SMK using 24.0 gr of H4895 and the results have been much better.

When does one say this is a load I am sticking with for this bullet and powder and call it a day? Do most people test all possible combinations in order to find the "best" load? (if that even exists)

In the last 2-3 months, I've tried shooting from the bench using 10-shot groups, not worrying so much about fliers (with my AR or 10/22), and I've really enjoyed doing this.

I guess I'm tiring of the tedious process of load development and wondering if testing for 24.7 and 25.0 gr of H4895 would be of any use.

Having shot and reloaded for pistols for 30 years (fairly simple process), I'm realizing finding the right load for just 4 rifles has been a very tedious and time consuming journey.

I'd appreciate your input.

 

[Mark_Mark]

that Hbar is a classic! worth $1600+

I test many combinations, different COAL, powder, write it all down in my holly book. Find something I like abs roll with it.

 

[Demi-human]

When does one say this is a load I am sticking with for this bullet and powder and call it a day?

That is a personal preference thing.
For me? Never.
As long as you are happy with the outcome, you’re there!

Some bullets, 55 grain FMJ come to mind, just won’t shoot any closer, regardless of powder.
Some bullets seem to shoot well no matter the charges or powder.(60 grain Flat base hollow point)

Quite often I find the bullet is the limiting factor.
Especially so with Bulk Fodder, as so much FMJ is. The Hornady being an exceptional outlier.
And as you put forth, the other load shoots much better.
If accuracy is primarily what you are seeking, the sun seems to be setting on FMJs.

I guess I'm tiring of the tedious process of load development and wondering if testing for 24.7 and 25.0 gr of H4895 would be of any use.

Unfortunately, there is only one way to know.
Try out the higher charges.
I would, personally, would at least switch to the Hornady 55 grain soft point, V-maxs are my favorite hands down though.(Price is a consideration for me, I’m sure Noslers and Bergers shoot better. I would be miffed if they didn’t!)

 

[Random 8]

I stop when the consistency is suitable for the use.

Match loads with match components? I'll chase the rabbit quite a ways down the hole.

Hunting loads for a rifle that may sit a powerline or 2? I'd like to see 1 MOA if I know the rifle is capable.

Woods loads or casual plinking? Good enough for government work. If you were shooting a 55 Vmax for chucks or prairie dogs, I'd say tweak it to the 9s. With that 55 FMJ, you're probably already past the point of diminished returns. Shoot it and be happy. Practice those field positions.

 

[sfl_gunner]

Depends on what you’re trying to accomplish. For match grade stuff the development seems like it never ends. For plinking and fun I stop once I have a reliable load that shoots well enough.

 

[AJC1]

Completely personal preference. Some people never stop. The 6ppc guys are testing and tweaking their load every time, while at the match, or the day before. Sometimes you cant get the preferred powder so some people are testing other loads just to have backups. If your goal is ultimate accuracy then using known good components shortens the journey. Your testing with the SMK reflects what is well known in shooting circles that it's a great bullet. The bullet is the most important component in an accurate load. A good barrel with a good bullet will give good results even with so so performing loads. The best hand load in a crap barrel is just a waste of time. You may enjoy the testing videos on jonnys reloading bench. It may get the juices flowing on ideas and combinations you would like to try.

 

[Charlie98]

Depends on what you’re trying to accomplish.

That. It's also a matter of what you are expecting out of your components, and what is realistic. The 55grn FMJ is not known to be a 'benchrest' accurate bullet, so if you are getting 1.5MOA, I'd call it a day and move along.

The 69grn SMK is a different story, however... that bullet is capable of excellent accuracy out of a capable rifle. It also depends on where you want to go with it, too... if you are getting sub MOA groups with it, and you are happy... well, sweet! Job well done, go pop a brew and research your next load. If you want bug holes, well, as someone else mentioned... you can keep going.

Like you, I don't care for the tedium of lengthy load workups. Quite honestly, I don't have the time, or even the facility for it. If I get a load working well enough I'm happy with, I call it a day.

Question for you: Are you sure your H-Bar is 1:9, not 1:7? I've got a Colt H-Bar... it's 1:7. Just curious.

 

[Aletheia]

I have THE LOAD already developed for every rifle I own that will do everything I want from that particular gun. I tell myself fairly often that I will, from now on, load that one LOAD for that rifle and simply use it for whatever I do with that gun. Then someone makes a new bullet. Or I lose a little accuracy "game" to my friend and wonder if ...... Or I read an article, or forum post, or I find an old partial box of bullets I never really finished experimenting with, or - well, you get the point. I don't think I will ever actually stop experimenting even though I have very good loads for everything I own already written into my book. I think it's part of the fun of reloading.

 

[CMV]

I have a lot of .223 to feed, but I used a rem 700 and stopped at what seemed like a good spot for it. However it was mediocre for most of the ARs, so I went up a bit more and that 2nd stopping point also worked well for the ARs. At that point, I saw no point in continuing other than making sure that load was good with other bullet types too. VMax bullets good, then just pretty much had to get seating depths & FCD for #2266 SP and #2267 FMJ.

The FMJ is what it is and does about same as any commercial .223/5.56 - hits target fine, groups are gonna be what they are based on that gun but what you'd expect. That's "blasting ammo" - basic range training ammo. Plus anything running it most likely has a 2-4MOA RDS or irons anyway so really doesn't matter if that ammo is capable of a .25" group - there's no way I'm doing that with a red dot.

The SP are pretty accurate and honestly surprised me considering their low cost per in 6k bulk packs. Maybe it's just where I bump up against my skill level as a shooter, but I can hit a 2" target at 300 yds with my VMax load and a 3" (often the 2" as well, but not every time) target with the SP. Considering one is loaded with much fuss and care to be as precise as i can make it and the other is spit out in bulk on a 650, that just really was a pleasant surprise to see how close the performance is.

Kind of off topic but just in case OP doesn't know or have the right expectations....a 55gr FMJ - say something very similar construction to the bullet you find in M193, is fine for what it is, but isn't going to be exceptional for accuracy. Once I read/hear someone talking about how their AR (and most often an entry/budget-level one at that like an M&P Sport) does MOA/sub-MOA with XM193, Am Eagle, Win Q3131, UMC, etc I pretty much discount anything further they have to say. Maybe I'm way off or I just suck, but I sure can't do that unless i cherry pick a lucky group out of dozens i shot that day. Load up the VMax or SP and grab one of my ARs (with a better barrel, trigger, magnified optic, rest....) sure, all day long. But I'm not grabbing a handful of FMJ and doing it consistently.

 

[entropy]

Try 24.5 Gr. of IMR 4064 with those 55 gr. bullets. That should get you under 1 MOA.

My go-to 55 gr. load is 25.8 of BL-C(2) with CCI 400 (or #41) primer. It has given me just over an inch at 100 in several guns. Topped with Nosler Ballistic Tip Varmints, it is my hunting load. (Though I just loaded up some 60 gr. Partitions I have yet to test.)

 

[jmorris]

I generally set expectations or a goal, once that is met, I’m done.

Kind of like looking for the remote, normal people don’t keep looking for it once they locate it.

If your going for “the best”, the only way you know that is trying everything, so you can exclude all other possibilities.

 

[FROGO207]

Personally I find a good load that plateaus a good enough result. Then try a different propellant or bullet. Rinse and repeat. Then to get better accuracy you need to spend more money, as in better quality bullets. There is a reason cheap bullets are cheap. Then work up those bullets. Still want more, spend more. I was quite happy a couple rifles liked REM CoreLokt bullets best. Then they became unavailable, hope the Rem buy out brings componants back.

 

[dcloco]

EVERY barrel is different.

Barrel attitude can change through the lifetime of the barrel. Minimal changes are: cleanliness, buildup of ______, corrosion, etc, etc, and ETC!


Google "modified Audette load ladder"

Will take ten rounds to allow you to see, clearly, what this barrel likes. HIGHLY recommend shooting the load ladder at 200, preferably, 300 yards.

 

[earplug]

Get off the bench and practice.

 

[hdbiker]

when you get to tightest groups or to published average velocity numbers,,, hdbiker

 

[kalielkslayer]

For .223, I just want the ammo to function in every gun it’ll be used in and shoot near 2” groups at 100.

For hunting rifles, I pick the bullet I want to shoot first, then test and test until I can get it to sub 1 MOA. Different powders, seating depths, even primers.

Once I get a load that will shoot accurately, I go up by .2 grains until I get pressure signs, or groups start to open. Most of my hunting rifles are the most accurate hot...to a point.

 

[DMW1116]

Right now I’m just happy to find bullets, powder, brass, and primers that work together.

I have one load for my 16” barrel 223, another for my 20” barrel 223, and a couple for my 308. This is just based on what I could find at the time. No 175 grain Match Kings? Guess I’ll have to try these A-max instead. No 4064 powder? Switch to CFE 223. No 147 gr hollow points? I guess the 115s will have to do. I load up a test series of 5 or 6 charge weights and whichever groups best gets confirmed then put into production for the rest of the box of whatever I run out of first.

 

[BillWM]

I find VMax 55gr bullets accurate as are 55gr Hornady HPBT using IMR 3031 and CFE223. FMJ's are never very accurate. For heavier bullets you need to find powders that do not fill the case at max loads, strange how some references have load data that you cannot load because the case is full to the neck or beyond the amount to compress a load.

 

[Bartojc]

You stop when accuracy is good enough for you. You need to be realistic about what components you are using too. Your example of 55 gr FMJ vs 69 SMK is sort of apples and oranges. I'd say that is quite good for FMJ, but as you noticed the 69gr SMK is a different deal, and generally much more accurate.

As a general rule of thumb I like to see 1" or under for everything I load in rifle, but sometimes it depends on what you are working with. Set expectations and stop when you're there or its good enough. I load for fun and hunting but not for competition.

-Jeff

 

[DMW1116]

For my 20” barrel in normal times I’d like a day to day load and a show off load. Day to day I’d be happy if I got it consistently in the 1.5” range at 100 yards, maybe even 2”. For a show off load it would have to be under an inch and I’d probably chase it more to get there. The day to day load would be cheaper, easier to find components like FMJ bullets, regular primers instead of match or bench rest primers, a standard powder I could use in all my rifles, and likely range brass. The show off load might be match bullets and primers, one powder stocked just for it, and brass that either came only from my gun or was purchased new. The ratio supply of each might be 100 every day rounds to 10 or even one show off round, depending on how much I shot them and how expensive they are.

 

[243winxb]

Better bullets = Better Groups. 55 gr Nosler, 69 Sierra, 68 gr Hormady. IMR 4198 pushes them all out the muzzle, as would H4895. . I need a reason to shoot, so a different bullet keeps me interested.

 

[swg1]

When it satisfies the requirements for the assigned task in your mind.

For example, I like to use Nosler Partitions in my hunting rifles. They are expensive, tho' arguably the least expensive item in a hunt. I hunt in the jungles of the PNW. When I find a load near the top velocity wise that groups into 1.5 inch at 100yds, I'm prone to stop punching those expensive bullets into the dirt of the back stop and go ahead and sight in for the hunt. Partitions aren't a target bullet anyway,...

 

[BillWM]

For hunting bullets I like Speer HotCors, they are not expensive and the jacket is bonded to the lead core. I've never had them fail and they expand well.
Accuracy is decent and you can use the same bullet for practice so you have identical ballistics.

 

[ev780]

That's what's so cool about what we do! Bored with load development? OK. Learn a different cartridge or shotgun loading or whatever. Load a bunch up and go compete. Not into that? Well develop a SHTF stockpile.(That's an afternoon on youtube I'll never get back) My point is you can move in and out of different facets of the sport and it all just works.

In fact doing things different keeps your attention. Better attention = fewer mistakes.

 

[G. Freeman]

Question for you: Are you sure your H-Bar is 1:9, not 1:7? I've got a Colt H-Bar... it's 1:7. Just curious.
Answer: definitely 1:9


Thanks Guys for all the response. You have shed light on this mysterious topic for me. With this bullet, I do think I am already where I want to be.

I was second guessing myself a lot because I do read a lot in various forums that people will get "sub moa" all day with a certain load, or an individual will post a group with all bullets touching and I come out of a shooting session scratching my head. My groups are never that good.

Out of 20 five-shot groups I may have 4 groups that are in the .90's" range and the rest will be somewhere in the 1+ inch range. Few will be over 2 inches and those are not necessarily called out. Limitations in time, changes in wind, not enough ammo, fatigue, and not having other bullets to compare to, keep me guessing all the time. And I guess that's where these forums can shed light.

Thanks again for all your insight.