Workplace disgruntledness and firearms

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jeepmor

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Okay, this is a touchy subject, but I'm working at a large corporation that is doing some house cleaning to the tune of 10,000 terminations or so. They call it layoffs, but this term implies that once things pick up, you'll have a job again. This is not going to happen here to my knowledge.

The company is not offering early retirements, voluntary separation packages or anything of that sort as in the past. They just fired 1000 managers worldwide, many of whom are what truly made the culture here fun. Many of them have been here 15-20 years. In two weeks, rumor has it, they sweep though the engineering ranks, no numbers yet. Two weeks later, they sweep through the technicians.

The culture here is high stress but we really don't have any wacko's. What should one do if and when someone goes ballistic and enters the premises with a gun, hellbent on finding the manager that wielded the axe.

I've already concluded that if I hear gunshots near me, I'm tossing my chair thru the window and diving out from the second story. Thankfully, my cube is right next to the window, so this would only take seconds. I'd gladly risk a broken bone or two over a gunshot wound.

I won't bring a firearm to work because it is against company policy and just bad juju in general. If I get cut, I get some vacation before I find another job. Do I want to lose my job, heck no, but things are looking bleak and everyone is nervous. I think anyone could bring in a pistol in their bag, I don't believe there are metal detectors at the turnstiles because laptops have enough metal to set those things off.

How should one respond if this ugly situation were to occur? I have a friend from high school who was involved in such an incident, and he was shot in the belly with a 9mm, so trying to stop the guy would be out. Thankfully, he lived to continue raising his two daughters. But him and I were so tight and alike in high school, I can easily relate to the "step in and do something" mentality.

Comments welcomed, real world experiences welcomed all advice taken for what I pay for it as usual.

jeepmor
 
I can not understand

your reasoning for not packing a pocket rocket, if they do not have a metal detector, they are never going to find a kel tac .32 or even a .380..
A north American mini .22 is better then nothing.

You already know someone who survived, why push your luck?

edited to add, this is post 3,333
 
You plan seems ok. Sure you can bring in a real small pocket piece for protection but your still better running then going toe to toe with a disgruntled employee with an AK-47 and all you got is a .22 mini revolver. Honestly if your on the STAY list and someone finds out your packing, suddenly you might be on the GO list. I unfortunately when thru a similar situation a few years back. No one was shooting but spirits were real low. 10,000 is a lot of people but sometimes a competing company in the area will put the word out that they are hiring if they get wind of the layoffs.
 
Well, I'm gonna get pfired soon, so I know what you folks are going through. Remember that there's life after Acme Corp...

I'm VERY out of the gun safe, but I also tend to have interaction with just about everyone... Told the head of corporate security that if he ever hears any really loud noises that he really shouldn't be between my office and the doors at the end of the hall, because even tho I'm a big guy, I can get going pretty fast, but I can't change directions too well, and that at the first sign of someone going nutso, I'm chosing the straight line method of egress...
 
good plan IMO. get the heck out and let someone else take the bullets. if the company prohibits you from having the means to protect yourself while at work, they made that decision for you already. there is no shame at all in staying alive under such an adverse situation.

the idea of a naa .22 is just ludicrous and should be ignored. it will just cause a false sense of security that is completely unwarranted.

I would caution you to do a little investigation up front. You may not be able to open the window in the manner you think. Maybe a car escape tool is in order.
 
You may check to see the windows are not shatter resistant. Or you will be beating on the window when the boogie man shows up. Then those small bugs won't seem as ludicrous.
Jim
 
I too work for a high-tech company that likes to hack away at the US employee base to send jobs to third-world pits. We have been going through it for a few years now with another big hit next month (80% of my co-workers). My companie's big plan in the case of somone going postal? Call 911 and let the cops sort through the mess. In our last move, I got my desk right next to the fire exit for just this reason.

I hate that my work won't allow me to CCW, but I choose not to loose my job over it. I am in one of the teams deemed to stay and there has allready been some jealosy from those teams deemed to be cut. I listen every day for the sounds of a nut case going off, hasn't happened yet.

Don't know what to tell you other than keep a plan to get out in a hurry if needed and don't make any large purchases till the layoffs are over.

BTW, we call lay-off days Whack-a-Mole.
 
Develop an evac plan. Know where the exits are at all times. Know the quickest route to them. Remember that most folks will stand still like dear in the headlights in disbelief for a few moments. This will give you a chance to get ahead of the panicking human wave when they finally break and run.

Avoid the shooter.

Carry a punch and a hammer so that you can break that window instead of pounding away like a chimp in the zoo (they're cheap too).

http://www.knivesplus.com/GB-45991-Gerber-Window-Punch.html
 
Carry a punch and a hammer so that you can break that window instead of pounding away like a chimp in the zoo (they're cheap too).

Good point hso. Mythbuster did a show a year or so ago about a guy running threw a skyscraper window. Apparently the glass is not easy to break. You don't want to get stuck doing this:banghead:
 
what is the first rule of a gunfight?

the answer is ....have a gun!

of course a mouse gun is no match for an AK, but most disgruntled
spree killers are not your praticed rifleman either.

Running away is preferable, but if you're cornered with no escape
you'll regret not having a simple little tool.

I managed to carry a sp101 in the extreme anti gun enviroment
of San Francisco, a pocket rocket is much easier...

it's your hide though.
 
Keep up your guard....always!!

I'll try to track down the article, but surprisingly the greatest incidence of Workplace Violence occur in the weeks or months following terminations. - not immediately after!!

As some persons become distraught over job loss and associated family/social issues, the result is to blame all the problems (justified or not) on the initial job loss.

So watch your six!
 
I worry about this alot, Not just for me but for who they will likely run into first. This is a topic that has not received proper do yet unless I've missed it.
Jim
 
Agree that running away if possible is the most sound tactical move. Won't discuss morals -- you're the one who has to live with yourself.

Only thing I would add is that I disagree with your reasoning about not carrying a gun. A gun isn't necessarily used to protect everyone around you, it's for defending yourself when you can't run away. "Against company policy" doesn't matter a whole lot if you're going to get fired anyway ...

Your plan to toss a chair through the window & follow it out is reasonably well thought out. Run away if possible. (Call it the "Monty Python" defense.)

Now, what are you going to do if the disgruntled murderous employee comes into the office while you are in the bathroom? No windows there!

pax
 
In a building with short lines of sight and narrow hallways, a pistol is far from useless. Pocket carry can be amazingly subtle, as can be keeping a pistol inside some ready accessible but innocuous object. P32 fits into photo lab envelopes, snack boxes and the like, if you prefer to carry it off-body. If something goes down, just find an area with sover or, at least, concealment and wait for the shooter to come to you. Good chance they'll never contact you if you were not on their personal list.
 
Kevlar?

You could also look for a passive defense. I remember hearing about Kevlar pads that could be put in a briefcase, backpack or something similar. You could hold it between you and the assailant while making a speedy escape. Not the best solution, but also not one that could get you in trouble.

Regards,
Dirty Bob
 
I can guarantee you're not the only one thinking about the situation, and that goes double for the managers and veeps. Under the circumstances, getting caught carrying would be grounds for immediate termination, and possibly -- given today's climate and the plethora of weasels --er, I mean lawyers-- criminal charges and civil suit for mental anguish, etc. etc. Just something to include while weighing the choices.

PS: Do we get to start out gruntled before becoming disgruntled?
 
Carry something innocent and about 3 pounds of metal (like a small metal weight plate) in your briefcase to see if the metal detectors exist.

If you can, I'd bring a big hammer to break the glass and leave it in your desk drawer. Could double as a HTH weapon.

I would consider basic concealed kevlar vest.

I would also carry a concealed handgun to work. They are easy to conceal and might save your life.

If I worked for a company that 1) prohibited me from defending myself and 2) there was a violent attack -- I would absolutely file a lawsuit against the company. It would wake up other companies with stupid policies.
 
The fact that there are not many violent responses to massive layoffs indicates that people in the workforce - you know, those working at honest jobs in corporate america to make a living - are as a group far, far more law abiding than gun-grabbing politicians give them credit for.

There's a very large divide between mainstream America and the subculture responsible for most violent crime statistics.

Just think about how many workplace "incidents" the media would be playing up if 1/10 of 1% were prone to going postal . . . or even 1/100 of 1%.
 
what is the first rule of a gunfight?
have a gun

No, the first rule is not to get into one. If you've failed in that then the options expand.

SJG26 is correct in that the weeks after the layoff are the most dangerous. Bills stack up. New jobs don't pop up. Family finances seem hopeless.
 
If I worked for a company that 1) prohibited me from defending myself and 2) there was a violent attack -- I would absolutely file a lawsuit against the company. It would wake up other companies with stupid policies.

How do you figure the company is responsible for the criminal acts of a former employee?

That is no different than blaming law abiding gun owners for the acts of criminals.
 
How do you figure the company is responsible for the criminal acts of a former employee?

I would expect a company to offer resonable security. If a company knows they will lay off a large number of employees, it would be wise to hire security that week, and maybe for the month after.
 
ilbob:
How do you figure the company is responsible for the criminal acts of a former employee?

I think the "criminal" aspect is not the important one - it's whether the result is harmful, and predictable. The company is reponsible for it's own acts/policies, and if they lead to predictable harm, a lawsuit seems fair. If the policy was, that you had to work with asbestos, and NOT wear breathing protection, wouldn't that make the employer liable for any harm? Particularly if you tried to use protection, and were denied.
 
The employer is not resonsible for workplace violence not do they have any obligation to protect you from it.
 
so, at my local ACME corp where I work,
In Colorado you have to post a sign that says CCW isn't allowed. (and of course, the only violation is trespassing)
that sign isn't posted at my place of work.

don't ask, don't tell.
 
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