Would this actually be an "effective" gun control measure?

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Ammo seems like it'd be MUCH harder to get a good black market going

You've never reloaded, have you?

Given the choice between having to fabricate ammo and having to fabricate a modern firearm, the ammo is a LOT easier. Sure, making brass isn't easy, but it takes a lot less machinery than making, say, a Glock.

It's also easier to pilfer from "legitimate" sources. A few small quantities add up to a big one.
 
Short answer is a resounding "no."

It is my understanding that some states, most notably CA, has already tried increased ammunition tax and microstamping, as well as other ammunition control measures, and, big surprise, they worked about as well as every other gun control measure. That is to say, they didn't.

Like every other gun control measure ever forced on law abiding citizens, all such a thing would accomplish is to increase the burden and financial cost to law abiding citizens who wish to practice to and maintain an acceptable or useful level of proficiency while giving governments one more means with which they can eventually deny us the basic fundamental right to self-defense. Meanwhile, as they always do, criminals will find a way around the law.

Quite simply, gun control is gun control whether implemented against ammunition, firearms with certain cosmetic features, or cliche' terms like ".50 caliber sniper rifles" or "Saturday Night Specials." All it does is create more victims at the expense of individual liberty.

And for the record, "effective gun control" is an oxymoron.
 
Would this actually be an "effective" gun control measure?

It saddens me when I read of shooters in America even considering getting on board the concept of gun control. America is my second home. Give the gun control spankers an inch and they'll take 1200 yards. Concentrate on punishing the criminals and leave responsible shooters alone.
 
The operative word is 'control'.

What part of the phrase shall not be infringed
is so hard for these 'supposedly' educated people to understand?
(Must of been that govment edumacation, huh?)... :rolleyes:

Oh wait...
They DO understand exactly what the phrase means
and THEY do know what it is they are trying to do.
CONTROL US.
Make no mistake about it.
 
Where do people come up with these lame ideas?

We don't need gun control, we don't need ammo control. What we need is criminal control, with swift trials and punishment. The so called judicial system has become so convoluted that people tend to forget about criminals by the time they finally get to trial.

Maybe we need more "Lawyer Control"

...Shall not be infringed.
 
According to my copy of Criminal Justice by Inciardi (an old edition I admit) the FBI is able to say that at least 50% of all violent crimes are committed by a mere 1.5% of the total population, and only 3% of the population in any given area will commit a violent act of any sort in their lifetimes. So half of the violent crimes are committed by repeat offenders. REPEAT OFFENDERS.

So one can simply ask what was the population in the last census, and then figure out what 1.5% of the population is, and then compare that figure to the total number of prison beds, to determine if there is sufficient prison space. (You will find every state in the Union is woefully under the needed amount)

Before banning any item, how about jailing known, violent individuals for long periods of time?

Florida once had a low repeat offender rate, and it had no parole system. The Federal Government, in the wisdom of the 1960's, determined that the Florida system was unfair in that it locked away too many minority offenders. So the state was forced to enact a parole system, and lucky Florida's repeat offender rate jump up to match the national average.

Does the average voting Joe know that the Federal Government has no parole system, but expects the states to maintain such a system? Another excellent example of Federal decision making that the government sees fit to ignore on its level.

Anti-firearms people love to tout foreign countries and their crime rates..., when you check those countries' legal systems, you may find it's not the lack of firearms or the heavy restrictions..., it may be guarantee of punishment. In Germany (iirc) if you get 5 years, you do the whole 60 months. "Good behavior" is what you should've been doing instead of committing crime; it holds no weight if you are good in prison. Some of the countries they cite have systems where the accused is guilty when charged, and must prove innocence. Not really a fair comparison.

The late Peter Jennings of ABC News once compared Vancouver BC to Seattle WA, very similar cities in demographics and economic at that time, and Jennings touted the lack of handgun deaths in the very restrictive atmosphere of Canada (he was born a Canadian). He was correct on that point, BUT...,

He never bothered to inform the audience that the murder rates for both cities were equal that year..., the Canadians merely found other means to kill each other than handguns when the handguns were not available.

In closing, blaming crime on handguns is the same as blaming spoons for national obesity. (btw obesity will cause more deaths and cost more money to the tax payers than handguns ever will.)

I am sorry to confuse the issue with facts, as I am sure previous posters on this topic are as well. :cool:

LD
 
I'm continually amazed, and sickened, from reading ideas proposed by supposed "pro gun" people about how to make a "good" gun control law.

Completely ridiculous.
 
Let's see ...the bad guys ignore all the laws against murder, rape, robbery and everything else ... but they're suddenly going to obey a law that says they can't have ammo?

Please explain to me how, exactly, that works.

By the way, it's already a FEDERAL FELONY for a convicted felon to so much as touch one round of ammunition. That law works pretty good, too, huh?
 
Maybe there should be a moratorium on ANY new
'propsed' legislation until the politicians
can REFORM what's already on the books.

Way too many contradictory laws out there right now as it is.
 
A permit for exercising a right?? I think not, my friend!

If you read through crime statistics, I believe you'd find most crime, especially violent crime, is perpetrated by a relatively small number of people. Those people...especially if they've been convicted of violent crimes before...should be locked away forever, or face a rapid death penalty.
Before anyone gets on my case about the death penalty...it is not cruel or unusual. It meets the requirements of the Bill of Rights protection. What is cruel and unusual is the excessive time it takes to execute and number of appeals that burdens the rest of society.
 
Also, as long as the military or cops have them, they will slowly enter the black market and *once they're there it takes a long time to remove them.*

Cops and the Military have ammo too...and it is going to be a lot easier to sneak a few live rounds out than to sneak your gun out for sale.

Ammo seems like it'd be MUCH harder to get a good black market going, because unlike guns it is perishable (either by using it or in bad conditions).

What? Ammo lasts for a long long long time.

So why not require a permit to purchase ammo - like if you don't have a permit you have to do a big federal background check.

RIGHT...just another hurdle for your law abiding gun owner who buys 1000-10,000 rounds a year, but the gangbanger who only needs handful of ammo for a robbery or murder is going to be hindered?

We unfortunately have straw purchase of handguns, but then 1 handgun = 1 handgun. Straw purchase a WWB of 100 9mm, you now feed 10 handguns.


Would this work? How would thugs get their bullets?

As stated above
-buy from corrupt police
-straw purchase
-steal from law abiding citizens
-hire some guy to make the stuff (much easier than hiring a guy to cook crystal meth)
-buy from foreign sources right along with their drugs.
 
This thread is not very high road.

The guy had a idea, you guys bashed him over the head with it.

Every one agrees that crimes commited with guns are a bad thing...
 
Stupid idea. First of all, it's very easy to roll your own ammo, and the brass cases can be reused many times. Second of all, the average criminal doesn't actually use up much ammo. People generally give him what he wants as soon as he brandishes the gun without him having to fire a single shot. Third of all, there is no way to stop people from smuggling in ammo from other countries, just like drugs.
 
This thread is not very high road.

The guy had a idea, you guys bashed him over the head with it.

Proposals for bad gun laws are not very high road either. There's little chance something like this is going to just sit unanswered. It is getting very hard to believe that these posts about "reasonable" gun laws are coming from pro gun people. Either that or they are very very poorly educated on the subject.

And as we hashed out in sickening detail weeks ago, no gun law has ever been proven to reduce crime so whether we agree gun crime is bad or not has nothing to do with it. Crimes committed with guns are really bad, but laws won't fix that. Gun laws are never about lowering the crime rate, never. Gun laws are about control.

The thing some people don't seem to be able to grasp is that, shockingly, criminals tend to not obey the law. And since criminals get, what was it, roughly 90% of their guns by stealing them or other illegal means does anyone really think they wouldn't just steal ammo too?
 
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This thread is not very high road.
Why not? I didn't see any personal attacks or disrespect to the Glockfan1954. What I did see was a pretty firm response to point out the flaws in the notion of 'effective gun control'.

And that is as it should be.
 
The very concept of "gun control" is ludicrous at best -- nothing more than a utopian dream conjured by academics who have only a nodding relationship with reality -- so trying to find an effective method of it is an exercise in futility. What you need it thug control, and prison is a pretty good method of thug control.
 
What you need it thug control, and prison is a pretty good method of thug control.
^^^
That my gun toting buds is EXACTLY what we need.

I'd add that by allowing LAW abiding citizens
to be able to carry guns.
Perhaps the prisons wont get too full too quick
because bad guy decides it's a bad idea to break the law in the first place.
Or the sadder part for BG.
He gets his asp shot and decides AFTER
his stay in the hospital and prison...
he decides from then on, he will be a good guy. :)

(That's assuming he didn't die in the commission of his
intended bad guy deed).
 
It makes a lot of sense.

Make it illegal for criminals to do or possess something...

It's worked well in the past.

Make it illegal to kill people unjustly, and how are murderers supposed to keep killing people if its against the law!?

Make it illegal for felons to possess guns, and then how are felons supposed to get guns if its against the law?!

Just like during prohibition, make it illegal to make, sell, and possess alcohol, and then how are people supposed make, sell, and possess alcohol if it's prohibited?

/sarcasm

Passing ANY sort of gun control will only serve to disarm the citizens who the laws are intended to protect.

refer to sig.
 
Why should I, a law abiding citizen, be restricted by having to register to get a permit to buy ammo. That just gives LE people a better idea of what I have and what I shoot. It also gives them an address to come to when they are ready to confiscate weapons, like they did in New Orleans.

And,by the way, properly stored, ammo will last for generations. The only way it could go bad is to expose it to extreme conditions such as flooding or extreme heat.
 
Well I need a ‘permit’ (Firearms Certificate) to purchase firearms and ammo and it’s about as effective as an ‘ashtray on a motorbike’ in preventing crime.
 
Ammo seems like it'd be MUCH harder to get a good black market going, because unlike guns it is perishable

The word the opening poster was looking for is "consumable" not "perishable"-- ammunition is consumed as it is used, like gasoline, alcohol, etc.; ammunition is not perishible unless it is stored unsealed in extreme conditions.
 
As far as I'm concerned effective gun control includes the government seeing that everyone with a clean record that desires a gun is given a gun. That would cut waaaaay down on crime.
 
As far as I'm concerned effective gun control includes the government seeing that everyone with a clean record that desires a gun is given a gun. That would cut waaaaay down on crime.

Gun socialism isn't the answer. People need to get over the notion of the government 'giving' them something. It is not really giving when government confiscates part of your paycheck and then redistributes to someone whom they deem more deserving.

How about everyone having the freedom to choose what gun they want, and then going out and buying it.
 
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