Would this be considered an NFA item?

[TITAN308]

Take this kit:

Then permanently affix this item to the opening:



Tailor to meet the 16" barrel and 26" overall length measurements.

There seems to be some gray area regarding attachments not technically attached to the barrel itself. I know the ATF uses the rod in the closed breach method to measure, with the shroud affixed to the carbine kit, the rod would have to go down the shroud to access the barrel, there would be no possible way to do it otherwise.

 

[joeschmoe]

Tailor to meet the 16" barrel and 26" overall length measurements.

There seems to be some gray area regarding attachments not technically attached to the barrel itself.

What grey area? The law says 16" barrel. That gun still has a pistol length barrel. The ATF has ruled that flash hiders/brakes that are permanently attached TO THE BARREL, still count as barrel length. In this example nothing has changed the barrel length.

Don't do. IMO, it's NFA/SBR.

 

[MasterSergeantA]

My opinion (and not necessarily that of the ATF) would be that the barrel shroud would NOT change the short-barreled rifle to a Title I rifle. It is not a part of the barrel itself. In the same way, a long, free-floated handguard on an AR with a 9" barrel inside it is still a SBR, handguard or no. When you pull the pistol out of the HERA unit, the barrel shroud does not come with it. When the ATF drops their measuring rod down the barrel to the face of the bolt/breech, they will also pull out their pocket Streamlights to see where the actual muzzle is measured down deep inside the shroud.

If it WERE a legal Title I firearm, you could pretty much accomplish the same thing with a stock and paper towel cardboard core.

As joe said, "don't do it".

_______________________________________________
Sent from my antiquated desktop computer by my fat fingers

 

[TITAN308]

Then can you explain this?

Product Description

BATF Approved No Tax Stamp Required *State and Local Laws Still Apply*

"Glock 17 ONLY"

 

[TITAN308]

And the G1 they had for years...



Just to clarify, the SBR and non-SBR versions cost exactly the same thing, so I seriously doubt they are throwing in a 16" barrel under there to be nice guys.

 

[joeschmoe]

And the G1 they had for years...

Just to clarify, the SBR and non-SBR versions cost exactly the same thing, so I seriously doubt they are throwing in a 16" barrel under there to be nice guys.

"All NFA Rules Apply" http://www.ammoland.com/2010/09/ema-tactical-roni-carbine-conversion-kit/#axzz2NeKxCO6i

 

[TITAN308]

You linked to an SBR version. I don't understand your point.

The images I showed are the ATF approved non-SBR versions.

My point being the non-SBR versions are nothing more than the SBR kits with enlongated moldings to create a "shroud" and extend the length of the kit.

So when the other posters said my idea would still be an SBR, I would like an explanation on how CAA is able to sell them as "ATV Approved non-SBR" with the same concept.

 

[MasterSergeantA]

I am only guessing here, but my guess would be that what is NOT shown in the ad is that there is a requirement to use a 16" barrel in the unit to be legal. The barrel would likely fit just fine down the attached tube. But in the absence of one to measure and inspect, I can only conjecture.

 

[joeschmoe]

Then can you explain this?

"NEW" Civilian Legal RONI model featuring a 16" threaded barrel .
Includes all the great features of the RONI without the NFA (SBR) paper work"

http://store.commandarms.com/products/RONICG2.html

 

[Sam1911]

Obviously they're either using a long barrel under that shroud, or they've got a letter from the Tech Branch that blesses their method of constructing this so they don't have to.

One or the other must be the case.

So if you're curious -- ASK THEM. They'll know better than we will!

(And don't try to extrapolate a theoretical answer for yourself based on what you see in their ad. Even if THEY have a letter blessing their design, that's only good for THEM. If you want to do the same, you'll need your own letter blessing your design.)

 

[Sam1911]

" "NEW" Civilian Legal RONI model featuring a 16" threaded barrel ."

Ah...so it's the former then. Figures.

 

[TITAN308]

Yes I saw the "threaded barrel" - but this makes no sense.

$499.99 for the SBR version and $499.99 for the non-SBR version.

They are tossing in a 16" threaded barrel and a kit with more polymer for the same price?

 

[Sam1911]

Seems so. Title II stuff has a bit of a cachet to it. They could well ask the same price for less raw materials.

But a wise man once said ask THEM. All we can do is guess.

 

[joeschmoe]

16" barrels are actually cheaper in most cases (in anything other than OEM barrels). I assume it's because of volume. I want a pistol length 300 blk, but they are more expensive than the 16". From every maker I've found. Go figure. I believe they take cheaper mass produced 16" barrels and cut them down. Add $50 for machine work and labor to make a 7" pistol barrel from a 16" barrel.

 

[joeschmoe]

Looking over the site it seems the g2-10 and other SBR models are $100 cheaper. Only the civilian model is $499.

http://store.commandarms.com/categories/RONI-%2d-The-Pistol%2dCarbine/

 

[TITAN308]

Sam I am asking. But while waiting for an answer, seems a could enough topic to bring up.

joe, my apologies, the prices I saw were not the OEM website.

But looking carefully, looks like the G2 is the newest generation, different body, some better features and design, I would hazard a guess that the extra $100 is due to it being the "new" version.

Could be wrong, time will tell.

 

[TITAN308]

Does the Sig system work like a Glock where it pulls back and tilts back when fired?

I am having a hell of a time finding a picture of a Glock with a view of the front. If it is like the sig version, with NO ceiling clearance for the tilt there is no way that "barrel" is actually coming out of the Glock itself.



Its like a similar picture of the non-SBR version is the holy grail, my Google Fu is failing me...

 

[joeschmoe]

Where did you get the pic in the OP? I never heard of the Roni before this thread either. I just know people have been wanting to put stocks on Glocks for a long time and always run into the same issue. 16" barrel or SBR stamp.

Sure enough when I looked into yours it falls into the same issue as all the others. Until you find some good reason to believe otherwise assume the current status quo has not changed. If you add a stock you must add a 16" barrel. No "grey area". If you do, let us know, but until you do assume the answer is "no".

 

[TITAN308]

Google tells me Sig does use the same browing designed tilting barrel lock operation. Look at that picture of the G1 "civilian non-SBR" version. That "16 inch barrel" supposedly is encapsulated by the kit - it would have zero ability to tilt and locking if that was an actual barrel that goes into the pistol.

Right? Am I missing something just using common sense and how tilting barrels operate?

Added red circle for clarification;

And no rifling in there if my eyes are not shot.

I have my concerns because if someone can find an actual detailed non-company photo, I'm left scratching my head... that very clearly looks like a tube, with no rifling and certainly no room for tilting movement.

 

[TITAN308]

Further more, product description on places like Midway USA:

Command Arms RONI Pistol to Carbine Conversion Kit 16" Threaded Barrel, Integral Collapsible Stock, Tri-Rail Handguard Fits Glock 17 9mm Luger Black

The RONI Pistol to Carbine Conversion makes it easy for the shooter to quickly insert or remove a Glock handgun, and doesn't require disassembly or any type of permanent modification to make the pistol compatible. Installation requires attaching a cocking handle unit to the rear of the Glock's slide, then pivoting open the RONI's hinged frame, inserting the pistol within, and securing the whole assembly together with 2 locking pins. Made in Israel.

Where is the "remove slide and change out barrels" step?

 

[joeschmoe]

It's "coming soon". So we have no way to know if it's just an artist/computer rendering and not a working model. Or maybe it jams after each shot. Who knows? Proportionately it doesn't look like a 16" barrel either, so I'm guessing it will be "coming soon" until they post a real pic or it just disappears like most of the other carbine kits.

Don't hold your breath. If it doesn't have a 16" barrel, it's NFA. There's still no guarantee it will work.

 

[joeschmoe]

Further more, product description on places like Midway USA:



Where is the "remove slide and change out barrels" step?

Where is the link to what you're talking about? This is getting silly. Either it has a 16" barrel or it's NFA. Get it? Post some links to where you're getting this crap. I guarantee it will lead to either an NFA stamp or a 16" barrel.

 

[TITAN308]

Joe that picture is the Gen 1 version, which has been replaced by then Gen 2 "coming soon" version.

Why are you getting bent out of shape over some conversation?

Im still searching for pictures or video that are not from CAA, good grief.

 

[TAKtical]

These have never even been sold in the US yet. They have been labled "coming soon" for over a year. I found out about them when they first came out, tried to pre-order one, and was told they were not taking pre orders. I have filed my paperwork to sbr one of my glock pistols and waited the 7 months and these civilian kits still arent available. Good luck with that. Hera Arms makes a better kit anyway.

 

[TITAN308]

Well that is good to know. And may explain why I can't locate any other pictures other than the stock ones they provide.

I'm scouring through their SHOT videos over the years and so forth.

But what you are saying clarifies why I see a lack of media.

Sounds like I need to just obtain a an extra barrel and have a machine shop simply create a slightly larger funnel to reach 16" and fuse the two together. haha