Would THIS be the absolute ultimate home defense weapon...?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Does anybody really think a realistic home defense scenario is going to involve more than a standard tube of 12 gauge, if that? In almost every home invasion scenario that I am aware of the minute rounds start flying the invaders beat feet. Sure fire might be returned, sure people on both sides get hit or killed but ultimately we are talking seconds and all parties much rather being at the local pub talking **** then trading fire. I mean could a pitched firefight happen......I guess anything is possible. Has it happened.....probably at some level. Is it remotely likely? Not really.

So what you have is a heavy as hell, over complicated, unproven, damn near fixed emplacement weapon instead of a been there done that, proven shotgun that is light, handy and more then effective enough to put an end to all but the cartel has come to murder you as a statement fights.

If you expend 25 rounds of buckshot and are still alive buy a lottery ticket and sell your book and movie rights.
 
There is some merit to having a shotgun with a large capacity, given how shotguns are slow to reload compared to magazine fed weapons like the AR-15.
 
Something with 6-8 round capacity would be much light and handier, and also a lot easier to keep track of your ammo usage as you do tactical reloads during a prolonged firefight. I'd much rather have the gun with maybe a 5-6 round side saddle and a bandoleer over the shoulder than all the ammo stuffed in the gun to have to lug around. When you're shooting you also are exposed to be shot....so that should be kept to a minimum. Shoot, duck behind good cover and reload. Repeat.
 
Yep, most shotgun encounters end very quickly and with few rounds discharged, period... but those aren't the only possibilities...

On the street back in the cocaine cowboy era I routinely carried (along with a standard riot gun when on a weapons call) a bandoleer with more than forty rounds of buck and slug... It was never needed but I was worried that someday I might need it to come to the aid of my guys on the street that had stumbled into automatic weapons in the big city.... My intent would be to use the extra rounds solely to aid in extracting the good guys from a very bad situation. That bad FBI shootout was actually after the cocaine cowboy era - but I was working the day it occurred (fortunately on the other side of Dade county...).

Still, even if offered a multi-round heavy popper, I'd still want only a classic riot gun with four in the tube and one in the chamber -maneuverability and speed of movement are life itself on the street in my opinion. Glad I'm long out of that line of work....
 
kozak6 said:
I guess the biggest problem, though, is that $1400 will get you an 870P and half a garage of ammo. Or a used 870 and a defensive shotgun course.
Click to expand...
One of those two options would be the best choice for me..... Haven't decided which one yet....... They're both good.
 
Looks good, good range blaster. Pretty much a really expensive toy. Practical home defense not so much
 
Cooldill said:
hey need to make it a gas gun with alternating tube feed
Click to expand...

I've wished someone would create that - I think some of the world's best engineers would have to put their heads together to make it happen.

And I think 10 gauge mini-shells would be more effective, probably still less recoil than 2¾" Buck but more pellets than the 12 gauge mini shells.
 
While I agree with most folks here that it wouldn't be the greatest choice for home defense, I personally think it looks cool as heck. I have also wanted a high capacity shotgun for a long time. Why? I don't know why but it doesn't stop me from wanting one.
 
C0untZer0 said:
I've wished someone would create that - I think some of the world's best engineers would have to put their heads together to make it happen.

And I think 10 gauge mini-shells would be more effective, probably still less recoil than 2¾" Buck but more pellets than the 12 gauge mini shells.
Click to expand...

It isn't so much that the idea hasn't been thought of (or possibly even done before?) it is that weapons development is highly discouraged now. Been reading a lot lurking on this forum and decided to join under a funny name that applies to me (haha). What I've read is that basically the full-auto ban disenfranchised the civilians from further weapons development and a lot of the designs of what are considered modern firearms are actually all pretty darn old and come from civilians who developed them and were adopted by industries/militaries/etc.

On the note of the development itself, it wouldn't be that difficult to develop and I love doing such things and wouldn't mind partnering/getting into it professionally. Basically all you would need in the most simplistic terms are two barrels (say 8-12 rnds each?) with a tube selector plate that shifts from one tube to the next on a horizontal bevel/slide which would allow it to select each tube. There are also rotating shotguns that can do this but really there is nothing wrong with just loading alternate rounds in a single tube. The engineering really comes in when you want to put the capability of selecting which tube you want to access at that point., which wouldn't really be too difficult from a design standpoint just add a selector switch that changes the slide and selection of the barrel. I would prefer if semi-auto shotguns became the norm and got really decent inner workings, instead of the old pump methods which I guess are considered more reliable? I think they are annoying and need to be phased out. Why pump when we have better tech? Semi-auto shotguns are awesome, imagine a thief running into your house and you've got a KSG semi-auto loaded with all slugs or the routinely used half slugs half 00 buckshot alternating. Haha...

Some also may not realize that shotguns with optics and slug or "dart" (slug with fins for increased accuracy) are actually really accurate short-mid range powerful "rifles". Slug is a lot larger than a lot of the popular rounds in pistols/rifles etc.
 
KeyboardCommando said:
Some also may not realize that shotguns with optics and slug or "dart" (slug with fins for increased accuracy) are actually really accurate short-mid range powerful "rifles".
Click to expand...

If you look at the Winchester 12ga Super-X slug, it only penetrates to around 14.50" and expands to 1.24" in ballistic gel - which should dispel the myth that ALL slugs completely pass through an assailant and keep going to wreak havoc downrange. Some slugs go clear through but some slugs don't...



When a .45 ACP round penetrates to 15" and expands to around .78", people generally say that's a great performing projectile, but a shotgun slug that penetrates about the same distance but has over 1½ times the expansion is somehow not a great performing projectile ?
 
The extra length is a huge plus. The old KSG was perfect for blowing ones hand off.

Now they need to make it less ugly, and semi auto. And even longer. My 3gun shotty has a 24" barrel. Make the KSG a couple inches longer than that.
 
C0untZer0 said:
If you look at the Winchester 12ga Super-X slug, it only penetrates to around 14.50" and expands to 1.24" in ballistic gel - which should dispel the myth that ALL slugs completely pass through an assailant and keep going to wreak havoc downrange. Some slugs go clear through but some slugs don't...



When a .45 ACP round penetrates to 15" and expands to around .78", people generally say that's a great performing projectile, but a shotgun slug that penetrates about the same distance but has over 1½ times the expansion is somehow not a great performing projectile ?
Click to expand...


Perhaps it is the power of the kick vs a pistol round that turns many off or even perhaps it is the industry who would rather make and sell ammo that is less useful but more expensive and uses more magazine space, because, well, you know...

It's more of a well kept secret than anything else. Something that tactical teams know about and not so much civilians. When a "civilian" thinks of a shotgun the majority always think of buckshot and any time I mention slugs to an ordinary person they act as if they've never heard of them. Frangible rounds are about in the same niche. I assume some people don't realize they can kill rats and other such vermin/small game with a little 22 target pistol that uses shotgun .22 cartridges. Easier to hit a bird/squirrel/etc with a .22 rifle than it is with a shotgun using buckshot.

The only time I really realized the great benefit of semi-auto shotguns with optics was when I played tactical games like Rainbow Six (Raven shield/Athena Sword/etc). Even though it is just a game, it still gives you a solid example of how something performs and a slug and optic turn a shotgun into a very nice tactical weapon versus buckshot or a pistol. Some times it's all you need, other times a shotgun is the last thing you need or want.

I like the round you showed, by the way, I hadn't done any new research on the available rounds and didn't know they made expanding slugs. That is Really useful. :) The main thing, when you use slugs and want to stop an intruder, is to shoot thru the door -- that is what slugs are intended for in a home defense situation. That or a 20ft shot or so in your yard, they aren't incredibly accurate and have a tendency to stray off target since shotguns generally have short barrels and no rifling -- also, I assume that slugs ... being the large hunk of metal that they are, probably have an additional tendency of ricocheting back if they hit any other metal/solid object which can be really dangerous.

There is an idea, a semi-auto tacti"cool" shotgun with rifling and magazine or tube capacity that is primarily intended for slugs and medium-range accuracy. Could probably design more aspects of it around the function of the round itself or even go more advance and include the timer rounds and gps guided rounds, haha. I usually get way ahead of myself when I design things. I like to go all out. Imagine a GPS guided incendiary or explosive slug/dart round that could have a delayed, timed, proximity, kinetic or even impact warhead? Sheesh, talk about overkill -- just like those grenade launchers you could shoot your shotgun once and have a programmed dart round fly right behind the enemies cover and explode with flak without doing any major damage to the structure or the surrounding area. You could also go even more advanced, like hostage rounds that have a specific ability to direct their blast or even smaller projectiles but that is too advanced for the human species at this point and I think I'll stop myself now, haha.
 
Last edited:
A $1400 home defense weapon that holds 41 rounds of 12 gauge? I think I'll stick to my $400 Glocks. If things get bad, I have a $500 AR.
 
FL-NC said:
A $1400 home defense weapon that holds 41 rounds of 12 gauge? I think I'll stick to my $400 Glocks. If things get bad, I have a $500 AR.
Click to expand...

Well, I'm not really defending keltecs ridiculous prices for their plastic guns, I'm more-so just a designer. I didn't mention that there is an AR style rifle that uses magazines that is setup as a shotgun and it looks pretty neat. You can get one pretty cheap on GunBroker for a couple hundred bucks. I don't know if it has the rifling I was talking about, but that could definitely be an option for some if they are looking for an affordable shotgun. There are also semi-autos, single shot break aparts and of course the ol' pump on there as well. They are polymer but there is one with a walnut stock that is pretty nice and I think the AR shotgun might be mostly metal. I'm not going to tell you exactly who is selling them because I don't want the prices to go up too high but you can find them if you try. ;)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

J
  • Locked
Home Defense Shotgun
Replies
21
Views
2K
MADDOG
M
Panzerschwein
  • Locked
  • Poll
Double-barrel defensive shell length?
2
Replies
25
Views
2K
Float Pilot
Float Pilot
A
  • Locked
Good Ammo for home defense and range?
Replies
2
Views
394
mountainclmbr
M
M
  • Locked
The ULTIMATE scattergun?!!
Replies
18
Views
1K
Zero_DgZ
Z
R
  • Locked
the best shotgun for home defense for THIS GUY
2
Replies
28
Views
2K
KarbineKrazy
K
Back
Top