the best shotgun for home defense for THIS GUY

[rageofangels]

So as I journey further into more urban areas of our great country's Midwestern section, I seek what I am told is the ultimate of Self-Defense weapons; the shot gun. Versitle in as much as it can be loaded with slugs or shot, rock salt or "non-lethal" beanbags, I will be moving down into an area of Cincinnati that is not nearly as nice as the commute from Kentucky I now take.

While moving to a third place is simply out of the question I am wondering what is the best possible 12 gauge home defense weapon I can purchase, naturally, for as little as 300 dollars USD.

Because of my age, I will admit that I am somewhat drawn to the tactical side of things as a moth is drawn to the light yet the pricetags of such tactical items are usually enough to steer me away and back into the practical realm of things.

I have shot a few shotguns, so I am fully aware of the kick of a shotgun and that buckshot can and does go through drywall. However, though I will be moving to a urban area, I will only have to worry about one other person as a housemate in addition to our dog (outside only). So the worrying of buckshot going through several of our own house's walls and killing a loved one is slim.

What is being considered:

As of this very moment, I am considering purchasing a Mossberg 500 Persuader that holds 7. I would like to spent less than 500 dollars but if I can be convinced that spending a few more dollars will get me the proverbial bang for the buck, I wouldn't mind getting it. This will probably be my last gun purchase in the next year or so as I will be graduating from college and Sally Mae will be siphoning large portions of my paycheck.

I checked CDNN and I saw the H&K Fabar (sp?) shotguns for 489.99 or so and this would explain my rant on tactical stuff. The H&K would be ubersweet to have, but I can't necessarily justify it.

Any other recommendations? Is it worth the price of the H&K?

Thanks in advance.

Also, how do you feel about FN shotguns? CDNN has a tactical one for 599 w/free red dot sights. The police 8 shot model is 269 w/out all the "toys."

Am I wrong in thinking there is a better home defense weapon?

I am completely open to suggestions and relatively new to the gun world (less than a year).

The only experience I have with a shotgun is shooting a few hundred rounds through a Mossberg Mariner 12 gauge with pistol grip only.

Also, this is my first post to THR. Thanks for having me!

x-posted in lots of places.

 

[Brian Williams]

Big Welcome to THR, the new guys buy ammo I will take some reduced recoil 00, thanks

First off if you have a shotgun or two get an old barrel for one you have used well and cut it to length. or get a basic shotgun with a short barrel and do what one of our Shotgun Gurus saysBA UU R

means Buy Ammo, Use Up, Repeat. do so often then get what you NEED to make it "tacticool"

 

[A Cleaner]

How it looks won't help it defend you but being able to shoot it well will.

The Rem 870 Exp Home Defense is my first choice. Then Mossberg 500 Persuader. Then Winchester 1300 Defender. Just my preference. All can be had for less than $300.

Being prepared to acutally use it and being skilled enough to use it effectively should be primary concerns, in my humble opinion (IMHO).

Good luck in your search. Good to have you here. As you can tell by my number of posts, I too am new to this site. So far everyone here has been great.

 

[Gordon]

I agree with A cleaner.

 

[Fred Fuller]

IMO KISS applies here- that's 'keep it simple...sir'. 8^)

Best advice I can give is to start out with a bone stock short barreled (18- 21") pumpgun by one of the major manufacturers (Ithaca, Mossberg, Remington, Winchester in alphabetical order). I would suggest the 590 as opposed to the 500 if you want Mossberg, you can easily clean out the magazine on the 590- not necessarily so with the 500, you have to remove the magazine tube to do that on the 500. I suggest you try several manufacturers' products and see what feels best to you before you buy.

Then buy ammo, lots of ammo, shoot it all up and repeat until the gun handles like a body part. Once use of the box stock gun is instinctive, then think about adding neato tacticool gizmos that can actually improve the gun's utility and not detract from it.

As to the FNs, they are essentially Winchesters. Stay away from the straightstocked red dot requiring model- not good for learning the basics on, too much stuff to get in the way.

If it matters, I prefer Remington 870s hands down... along with several million other users including 90 some percent of the law enforcement market in the US...

Stay safe,

lpl/nc

 

[mnrivrat]

Remington 870 Express Synthetic 18" barrel .

Factory # 25077 6 rd mag. for about $300

Others will do OK also, but me thinks this one is likely the best value and the best handling. Try it - you'll like it !

 

[Bob F.]

Yeah; what A Cleaner and the esteemed Mr. Lapin said. And welcome!!

Have a 870HD myself and love it. Need to shoot it a lot more. Like the Hornady TAP 00 REAL well. A low recoil #4 buck would be nice.

Stay here, read all of Lee Lapin, Dave McC, and SM's posts. Then BA/UU/R!!

Stay safe.
Bob

 

[sm]

Welcome to THR.

Me, I am currently trying to find a mutant ninja bear as a pet - I figure with a Surefire around its neck, I have found the perfect defensive tool.

Well maybe Lee has the best advice afterall.

BearAmmo
BearUp
Repeat

 

[det.pat]

i have an 870 with a sure fire light, anongst many other shotguns. i really like my saiga 12. takes 5 or 8 round detachable box mags and can be used stock or dressed up until you can't lift the thing. also really cheap.
pat

 

[rageofangels]

I appreciate the input and if anyone else has any suggestions, I gladly will accept them.

Currently I've been bouncing around the same internet stores for a fair local price on the following:

Mossberg 500 or 590 (unsure about the differences between to two)

Remington 870

Winchester 1300 series

To narrow down the search, I would like something that holds at least 6+1 rounds. It is my understanding that different mags can be installed in different shotguns to later accommodate a larger capacity.

As for accuracy, I was OK with shooting the Mossberg Mariner 12 gauge at about 22 yards out and hitting an empty 5 gallon pickle bucket. My mom works at Texas Roadhouse which equals free targets. Obviously there is room for improvement, I was only using cheap Federal bulk pack ammo.

Someone on another board recommended sending the shotgun into Wilson for a few hundred dollars and they would convert it and turn it into a fine-tuned machine. Is this worth it?

Is 300 bucks enough to spend? It seems that the average asking price for the three guns I listed fall within 40 bucks plus or minus. Is it worth paying an extra hundred or so for something a little nicer?

Also, I noticed a lot of other forum threads encouraging to keeping it simple.. while this obviously cuts down on the price, is it still worth it to have an attachment for a flashlight and a decent flashlight on the end of it?

Thanks for the warm welcome. Can I use the new guy ammo joke on the next one?

 

[sm]

I am the resident Rebel in case nobody told you...they will...

I use a bone stock 870 Express with the 28" bbl loaded up with slugs only.

Academy Sports, $199 less the Rem factory rebate of $25 - so $174 plus whatever tax was for mine.

One of these days I will fire enough rds to know what I need on a shotgun. Currently I just concern myself with Gun fit.

Oh...still reading Brister's book....

 

[justsurvivingincalifornia]

For the difference between the Mossberg shotguns check the mossberg.com the same for remington.com

 

[JShirley]

Hey, welcome to THR.

There is no requisite amount to spend on a defensive tool. More money does not always = better.

The things to worry about are dependability- both in function and in hitting your target- and fit.

A lot of people prefer the 870, and I can see why. They usually seem more solid than the 500. I grew up with a 500 in my hands, though, and I love the thumb safety. One of my dedicated HD longarms is a Mossberg 500 with Ghost Ring sights. The only mods I've made are swapping out the over-long stock with an Outers Cadet stock for better fit, and tossing on a sling.

If you're willing to spend a few extra bucks, you might consider getting a Ghost Ring model as well. I decided I might as well just get everything I wanted from the start, so I ordered a model with Parkerizing, short barrel, and good sights.

If you wanted to try the Mossy- and willing to spend a few bucks more- you can probably pick up the 18" barrel GR version from WalMart for about $330 (though you'll probably have to order it). The 590, IIRC, has a 20" barrel, holds another round or so, and is a few bucks more.

I've really only shot Remington Reduced Recoil slugs through the Mossy for the last 5 years or so. Plenty accurate for quick shots out to 50 meters or more, and if you do your part, they'll knock the stuffing out of a big deer- or the size equivalent.

Good luck, and think about buying a little less expensive shotgun, and using the rest of the money to get a good shotgun cleaning kit, be sure you've got the right LOP stock, and buy lots of ammo.

John

 

[Dave McCracken]

Lots of good input, some of which seems hauntingly familiar.....

The Cool Factor gets the wrong people killed. Forgo the tactical bling for the moment.

After trying the Big Four, pick the one that feels best. Use it until you can operate it effectively 10 seconds from REM sleep in low light under very stressful conditions, because you may need to.

When you get to that point and ONLY then, think about what addons or modifications will aid you it accomplishing the mission and what will not. Get one thing at a time and integrate it into your "Chops".

A box stock, short barrelled Big Four pumpgun is an amazing weapon for CQB. Shun the foreign stuff,this is something we do better than anyone.....

 

[Tomac]

Remington 870 Police Magnum trade-in. Most are excellent internally with some finish wear. Here's one for $275 shipped: http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976537741.htm
Add a +2 mag extension (if you want one) and/or any other accessories you feel neccessary (sidesaddle? tactical light?) and you're good to go.
Tomac

 

[Brian Dale]

Welcome to THR, 'angels.

The only experience I have with a shotgun is shooting a few hundred rounds through a Mossberg Mariner 12 gauge with pistol grip only.
..I was OK with shooting the Mossberg Mariner 12 gauge ... I was only using cheap Federal bulk pack ammo.

You're almost there with that PGO Mossy, but you'll be a LOT happier with a regular stock. Again, any Big Four pump, and choose the one that fits you best. That cheap ammo wil work just fine; as the man said, BA/UU/R.

Can I use the new guy ammo joke on the next one?

Sure!

In the meantime, I'd like one of those cheap Federal bulk packs, please.

 

[rageofangels]

How do most of you feel about having a stock like this? If it is good to have both a pistol grip and a shoulder for longer distance more accurate shoot'em up style, wouldn't this be the best of both worlds?

 

[Gordon]

Oh that side saddle would sure bruise the cheek!
I switched to that style Choate Machine stocks on my 870's and 1100's in the mid 80's when they came out. My idea was to have a similar stock to my ARs, FALs, and HKs. However it never was quite right. Around the turn of the century (has a cute ring to it , Huh?) I decided that shotguns were a different critter and 'conventional' though shorter stocks (about 1-1 1/2" shorter than what a bird gun LOP is) works best. 5 years and lots of training later has verified my desision.

 

[berettashotgun]

My beretta 1201 works great, light and has never had a problem. I load up with #4 hevi shot with a 00 buck followed by a slug at the end. I love my beretta(S)

 

[gm]

get an 870 express with a 20" smoothbore slug barrel..magnum receiver optional but nice for those heavy loads.

Id look around for an older model without the lockable trigger and the plastic trigger assembly.should set you back 175 bucks or so .

 

[rageofangels]

I picked up this month's Guns and Ammo mag which has an article about Home Defense shotguns... surprise! It had the same recommendations as most of you have save with the exception that it suggested 18" was the max length.

I insist on having at the minimum a 20" mostly because a lot of the 8 shot scatterguns are 20".

 

[Nnobby45]

I'm predjudiced in the matter 'cause I've hunted with 870's all my life. I recently received my Scattergun Tech 870 Combat shotgun with SureFire Fore-end. They're built on the Express model. It's as smooth running and nice a shot gun as is available. It costs too much, but I bought it anyway. I also sent in an older 870 Wingmaster to Scattergun Tech/Wilsons to have it reconfigured into the Border Patrol Model. Now I'll have two combat shotguns and two more for hunting. All 870's.

There are those who are not familiar enough with a pump to reliably shoot it under stress and keep from short shucking. You can learn to use it reliably, however. Lots of practice.

I personally don't recommend a pistol grip fore-end . They were designed for folks like SWAT team members who can hold on to the shotgun with one hand while using the other to attend to equiment, etc. A pistol grip has no advantage when the shooting starts, and is much easier to disarm than a straight stock. Too many buy them 'cause they look cool.

Lastly, who in the world would put a butt cuff on the same side of the stock as the cheek is placed? Unless the pictured stock above was used by a lefty.

The 1187 Semi Auto is a great gun, but some work with low recoil Tactical ammo and some don't. That's why Wilson's doesn't build them anymore. The Police were their main customers, and they have issues with the low recoil Tactical ammo they're required to use. Use it with standard loads and you'll be ok, but you won't have the advantage of the tight patterns now available with Tactical Buckshot loads from Federal, Rem., Winchester, and Hornady. Hope I was helpful.

 

[sm]

<pulls up two stools and offers a soda>

We have some sticky posts up at the top of the forum, I suggest you read some. Our Moderators, Dave and Eric have REAL life experience with shotguns, not to mention taxed with the job of training folks to stay alive.

WE have many others whom have 1) used a shotgun in defense of themselves and others. 2) have attended a LOT of training facilites, such as Awerbuck and others. 3) we have some that are top notch competitiors in various disciplines. 4) we have folks that have dropped more shells than some will ever fire.

SWAT magazine is good, the editor is also a Moderator here, he KNOWS shotguns as do many of our other moderators.

Gun Fit to shooter.
Gun must run with ammo, 200 rds of a particular ammo is proven to run without fail,before carrying.
Training, Training, Training
-then and only then-
any modifications a shotgun needs for tasks expected.

I always suggest Brister's Book, give young and old, new and experienced some insights into the nuances of the shotgun. Fred Misseldine is another.

I recommend SWAT , and the folks that submit to / write forSWAT in reading and learning.

You see the folks at SWAT, from the publisher (Rich Lucibella...like in The Firing Line) , to the editor Denny Hansen, to Betty the Graphics to...name anyone at SWAT have and continue to train.

These folks are NOT flowered shirted gun writers than decided to write about shotguns because there was no beach vollyball tourneys to write about...

Denny told me he doesn't even own a flowered shirt <oops>

I have my fun here, I have my friends here. Under all this...DEAD is forever.

I have a responsiblity to pass forward what passed to me. I take this stuff serious. Personally I get a LOT concerned when folks are more interested in the cosmetics and fuzzy dice hanging off a shotgun ( any firearm) over the training , mindset and practice of skills.

Bone stock pump shotgun, and a case of light target loads fired downrange will keep you alive better than a mag extension and shorter bbl.

You may have Awerbuck , or anyone else, share in training the benefits of a mag ext,or shorter bbl...I'd bet money Awerbuck or anyone else would rather have a student "explain" they spent the monies on a bone stock shotgun and a case or two of target ammo and getting the gun to fit - and firing target rds - Instead of coming to class with a gun shot little, that doesn't fit and fuzzy dice and curb feelers on it.

NO disrepect , I just do not want folks getting themselves or others hurt or dead is all.

 

[Jack2427]

I have been carrying shotguns professionally for 40+ years. I own at least one of every "tactical" or "fighting" shotgun produced since 97 (1897). If you look at what the pros carry, it is usally a lightly equipped SG. maybe a butt cuff, good sights, extended mag.

I echo the sentiments of everyone above who say "use the cash for training". In a critical situation your training and practice will save your bacon, not devices that complicate the use of your weapon.

I will be dogmatic on only one issue. The persuader, lest I am mistaken, is a pistol grip model. Do NOT use a pistol grip. Use a regular, albeit possibly shorter, standard stock. The regular stocks with a "tactical" pistol grip have a place, but they have a couple of disadvantages for HD. They make weapon retention more difficult because your 2 hands are gripping the weapon at right angles to each other. For the same reason it is more difficult to use the stock as a striking weapon, i.e. "vertical/horizontal butt stroke". Remember you have a SG because the range is close, inside a dwelling it will be real close and you may have to retain or strike with your weapon. A pistol grip is useless for either(as well as for shooting) and a pistol grip on an "assault" type stock makes them more difficult. And if there is one thing you do not need at that time is more difficult anything.

My personal HD load is #4 or #1 buck.

 

[Bob F.]

HOLY CRAP! Thanks for mentioning the "sticky"'s. Guess I'd gotten into a rut and hadn't revisited in quite a while. Lots of good stuff. Needed to read Loading Drills, and once again enjoyed The Geezer Squad and Shooting With A Lady. Thanks, Gang!