Would you be willing to go back to the old days before NICS?

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answerguy

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Just curious if anyone thinks it would be a good idea. For those that don't remember the 'old days' ; when a gun buyer went to a dealer he filled out a form (4473 IIRC) and had to answer the question " Are you a felon?". If he was a felon but said he wasn't he walked out with a gun.
 
So you mean not only before NICS, but before waiting periods, too. If we're jumping in the wayback machine, let's go ahead and set the dial for when you could mailorder a Thompson SMG or a Colt Monitor.
 
So.....

Henry, Chris, 2nd, Golgo (and everyone else who will pile on later);

You have no problem with felons buying guns? No reason to make it more difficult?
 
Nope, none at all. The list of things that make people "felons" today is ludicrous. A true felon (in the traditional violent sense) will either already have a gun or know where to get one in short order.

Greg
 
You have no problem with felons buying guns? No reason to make it more difficult?
Click to expand...
I don't. I'm of the opinion that everyone should have the right, and access to the means, to defend themselves and their loved ones. Even if they've been arrested and convicted in the past.

The question really assumes that sales from a gun shop are the way felons normally aquire firearms. I had a buddy in high school (late 80's) who bought a Colt 1911 with the serial number filed off for $50 -- NICS wouldn't have stopped him. Had a buddy in the National Guard who had 2 select-fire Uzis still in the cosmoline, and wanted to get rid of one for $500. Wouldn't have stopped that sale either.

Britain has more of a problem with "gun crimes" (and particularly "handgun crimes") than they ever have, and they've essentially outlawed civilian possession of them.

But no, I have no problem with a felon owning firearms. Assuming, of course, that I'm also allowed to own them.
 
I'd be willing to go back to old days where one could go into any department store, i.e. Sears, lay down some cash, get the gun I wanted, and have the cashier say "have a nice day". No paper work or anything, except for the warrantee form.
 
The libertarian point of view has been stated...

... and of course it was just what I expected. "No new (gun) laws and get rid of the old ones".

Is there anyone who is not a libertarian who would like to comment on my original post?
 
answerguy,

Did you purchase any firearms in pre-NICS days?

Was the world a safer or more dangerous place pre-Brady? Pre-GCA '68?
 
Be careful how you set the wayback machine, Sherman, at one point we had to sign for ammo purchases also.
 
"Is there anyone who is not a libertarian who would like to comment on my original post?"

Apparently not.

Has NICS, or the system before that, done anything to reduce your chance of becoming prey for a felon?
 
Am I willing to go back to the old days before NICS? I think we should go back to the days before the GCA '68!

Here's a question for you, 'Should guns have serial numbers?" Guess what my answer is. ;)
 
An unequivocal yes!

Because of the instant check and not the Brady waiting period I could (if I were gunless) go to the store right now and come home with one.
 
Is there anyone who is not a libertarian who would like to comment on my original post?
Click to expand...

Okay.

Yes, I would love to go back to the old-pre NICS days. Mostly because I, even though being a sworn officer, always have to wait the maximum three days to pick up the weapon I just legally purchased. :cuss:

See, Mom was not on US soil when she went into labor. And apparently, if you put 'Malta' in the 'Place of Birth' spot on the 4473 form, NICS automatically puts you in the 'Come Back Next Wednesday' category. :fire:

Anyhoo, back on topic. The pre-NICS days are also the pre-Assault Weapon Ban days. And the pre-Lautenberg Amendment days.

Cheap full-capacity magazines. An AR-15 I didn't have to mortgage my home to buy. An HK91 fresh off the boat from Germany.

*sigh*

Did felons get their paws on guns with more frequency in the Bad Old Pre-NICS days? No. Felons get their guns now the same way they've always gotten their guns - by by-passing whatever laws are inconviencing them.

Gun laws only affect the law-abiding gun-owners. Gun laws never affect those who don't follow laws to begin with.

A felon has already broken one or more felony statutes. Why should breaking one more bother his conscience any?

LawDog
 
That's interesting. I put "Germany" next to Place of Birth, and I've never had to wait more than 10 minutes. I wonder what problem they have with Malta.

As for the Wayback Machine, I'd set it to 1933, gun law wise.

Addendum: Sworn peace officers should purchase firearms under the same rules which apply to all citizens.
 
Your seeming short-sightedness and lack of knowledge amazes me.

In the good ole days, no one had to fill out a form, wait three days, or anything like that. Pay your money, get the gun. Pretty simple. Could felons get guns back then? Sure, just as simply and easily as they can today. Instant checks, etc, do virtually nothing to protect you and yours from felonious violence; they never have.

What NICS and the previous system do is enable the collection of data on lawful gun owners which, as we all know, can be used by unscrupulous politicians (in California, Maryland, Canada, etc.) for the eventual confiscation of lawfully owned firearms.
 
ojibweindian - I'm too young to know about when forms weren't required. Then again, I'm from PRK.

Then again, before the GCA of '68, you could mail order guns and "Zippy" the postman (back in those days the U.S. Postal service had a character they called Zippy) would deliver it to your doorstep.
 
You have no problem with felons buying guns? No reason to make it more difficult?
Click to expand...

No, for several reasons. For one thing, we got along without that restriction just fine for a couple of hundred years. Sure, there was crime - there always has been and always will be.

Second, dangerous felons should be in prison - no buying guns in there. After serving full sentence ... well, if they want to get a gun to do some dirty deed, they will get it some other way - probably by stealing it from you or me. Now, parole or probation is a different story - there can be specific conditions applied, of which "no firearms" may be but one.

Third, many felons are non-violent to begin with - tax evasion, perjury, drug possesion, etc ...

Fourth, and probably most inportant, for many persons this restriction applies to it is an ex-post-facto law which is blatantly unconstitutional.
 
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