Would you be willing to go back to the old days before NICS?

[GhostShooter]

Ok as a Democrat (please hold your boos till the end) while I understand the reasoning behind not wanting a violent felons to have guns (notice I said violent) I really don't see how NICS is helping anything. First, how many felons are going to shell out the money we do to buy guns when they could get them much cheaper on the street with less hassle. Now, that being said, if I had to compromise I would get rid of the 4473 form not the instant check. No need for the 4473 form and the instant check could prevent those violent felons who for some reason have decided to goto the local gun shop to buy an illegal gun.

Let the Democrat bashing begin.....

 

[answerguy]

What NICS and the previous system do is enable the collection of data on lawful gun owners which, as we all know, can be used by unscrupulous politicians (in California, Maryland, Canada, etc.) for the eventual confiscation of lawfully owned firearms.

This is the biggest reason against NICS anyone has stated.

Your seeming short-sightedness and lack of knowledge amazes me.

I'll be willing to match my knowledge against yours. What are the rules?

In the good ole days, no one had to fill out a form, wait three days, or anything like that. Pay your money, get the gun. Pretty simple. Could felons get guns back then? Sure, just as simply and easily as they can today. Instant checks, etc, do virtually nothing to protect you and yours from felonious violence; they never have.

Certainly felons who are in the criminal sub-system of society know how to go about getting weapons. There are many small time criminals who aren't connected like that. And NICS stops them. It also stops mentally incompetent (who hear will argue on behalf of the incompetent having unfettered access to guns?)
Also people who have RO's on them are less likely to get guns. I personally would have no idea how to go about buying a black market gun.

 

[Chris Rhines]

(who hear will argue on behalf of the incompetent having unfettered access to guns?)

- Chris

 

[answerguy]

Well Chris let's hear your argument.

 

[*8*]

Absolutely, I would want to be able to mail order a few machine guns without the hassles of a form 4 and endless waiting. I was reading an old newspaper ad, for a 20mm- anti tank, $189 shipped. The ad said something like, "Its devastating accuracy coupled with torrent like firepower were directly responsible for the frantic redesigning of nearly all allied armored fighting vehicles". It goes on to say, ""hurls a 1lb. armor piercing shell up to 4 miles."

I'm positive some of us already own these exotic weapons.. but it would be nice for the rest of us to be able to afford 'em.

 

[BigG]

Not a libertarian

but a conservative. Yup, turn back the clock fer me, too.

 

[ahenry]

(who hear will argue on behalf of the incompetent having unfettered access to guns?)

Who defines “mentally incompetent†you? I’d rather take the risk of the "mentally incompetent" getting a gun, and then doing something wrong with it (note the two events that must happen for one bad thing to occur) than support more unconstitutional intrusions against my liberty...and yours.

And who says that in the absence of laws they will suddenly have unfettered access to a firearm? Do you mean to tell me that gun dealers aren’t capable of deciding for themselves if they should sell a gun to a particular person?

 

[ojibweindian]

answer_guy

You pick.

"This is the biggest reason against NICS anyone has stated."

A pretty good reason and not without validity, as recent events in California, Maryland, Canada, Australia, Britain, etc. have shown.

"Certainly felons who are in the criminal sub-system of society know how to go about getting weapons. There are many small time criminals who aren't connected like that. And NICS stops them. It also stops mentally incompetent (who hear will argue on behalf of the incompetent having unfettered access to guns?)
Also people who have RO's on them are less likely to get guns. I personally would have no idea how to go about buying a black market gun."

You don't need the kinds of "connections" you imply to get your hands on a hot gun. NICS stops nothing. The mentally incompetent can grab 'em without NICS as well, or do we forget the Capitol Building shooting of a few short years ago? The guy, from Illinois, was/is schizophrenic.

RO's? Seriously, you think they stop abusive spouses from grabbing a gun and shooting their significant others?

 

[answerguy]

Heres the definition of mentally incompetent

The current wording is:

Have you ever been adjudicated mentally defective (which includes having been adjudicated incompetent to manage your own afairs) or have you ever been committed to a mental institution?

Tell me what you find wrong with this.

 

[answerguy]

RO's? Seriously, you think they stop abusive spouses from grabbing a gun and shooting their significant others?

Like I said I wouldn't know where to go to buy a black market gun. Do you?

 

[ojibweindian]

answer_guy

Ever hear of self-incrimination? Anyone can get anything, if you know where to look and have enough cash.

 

[Chris Rhines]

Well Chris let's hear your argument.

Okay, but you won't like it.

Every individual has the inalienable human right to own the property of his choice.

That's it.

Like I said I wouldn't know where to go to buy a black market gun. Do you?

Heck yes. I try and keep track of such things, just in case.

- Chris

 

[2nd Amendment]

You have no problem with felons buying guns? No reason to make it more difficult?

Nope, it's none of my business who buys what and certainly none of the governments business. It's what you do with your purchase that matters. My personal opinion is: Do a crime with a gun, go to jail. Period. Goodbye, been nice knowing you, no, I won't come to visit. Maybe your grandkids will in 50 years...

 

[answerguy]

Every individual has the inalienable human right to own the property of his choice.

Regardless of how deranged or insane? No matter how many voices are telling him his neighbors want to eat his brains?
Just wait for him to committ his crime and then take his gun away, right? Do you find many people who agree with you?

 

[Tamara]

answerguy,

Sorry, but I'm not real keen on punishing somebody because they might commit a crime. A little too Minority Report for my tastes; all creepy and Orwellian and stuff.

If they're too dangerous to trust with a gun, they're too dangerous to trust with a Buick or a book of matches or even to be allowed outside without adult supervision.

 

[answerguy]

Tamara,
So that I might respond could you tell me what statement of mine you are commenting on?

 

[spacemanspiff]

why should i? no waiting period up here, and with that little laminated card from the Division of Concealed Handgun Permits i dont need to wait for a NICS clearance.

in fact, i just bought a winchester 1300 the other night from walmart, walked in and out in the amount of time to fill out the 4473 and have it rung up.

 

[answerguy]

why should i? no waiting period up here, and with that little laminated card from the Division of Concealed Handgun Permits i dont need to wait for a NICS clearance.

Are you sure about that? In Michigan my CCW says I don't have to go to the police department to get a purchase permit for a handgun, but I still have to go through the NICS check.

 

[Bacchus]

I don't want felons buying guns. But what does that have to do with the NICS system?

Two completely different topics.

 

[Chris Rhines]

Regardless of how deranged or insane? No matter how many voices are telling him his neighbors want to eat his brains?

Yup.

Just wait for him to committ his crime and then take his gun away, right?

Actually, no, not then either. At least, not in all cases. Just how detailed a description of privatized law do you think you can handle, eh?

Do you find many people who agree with you?

Do you honestly think that this is even a consideration for me?

- Chris

 

[spacemanspiff]

Are you sure about that? In Michigan my CCW says I don't have to go to the police department to get a purchase permit for a handgun, but I still have to go through the NICS check.

must depend on the state laws. i've picked up one transfer without the NICS call as well as the shotgun. the store just has to fill out the sections on the 4473 that allow for no phone call. they record the effective date and expiration date of the CHP and some other stuff too.

 

[biere]

I think we have to go back to times before all this data base compiling because the government has been shown to not use things properly. The 4473s and the maryland shooter come to mind as the most recent.

And tamara beat me to the best reason.

The government will trust someone to drive a car. To live next to many small kids. To go to a grocery where common cleaning supplies can make bombs, killing gases, and other stuff. But they want to tell him he can't own a gun to protect himself. And there is a public library to educate him if he needs to learn about chemistry.

You deal with the actions of people. The object did nothing wrong.

Either someone should have all their rights including owning a gun and voting, or they should be in prison.

And the overpopulation problem is showing that it is way too easy to get into their system and lose your rights.

I really consider registering the item to be darn close to trying to burn books to limit knowledge. Someone wants to control that which should not and really can not be controlled.

 

[Justin]

Regardless of how deranged or insane? No matter how many voices are telling him his neighbors want to eat his brains?

I would say that the odds of a person like this being around, and actually acting upon their delusions to eat human brains is probably nil. In fact, I would venture to say that even given all the schizophrenics, depressives, bipolars, sociopaths, psychopaths, and all other people suffering from mental illnesses who *might* represent a danger to others that the odds of being victimized by one are right about nil.

Do you think we should start regulating knives, cleaning supplies, and electrical equipment for the same reason?

After all, the worse school mass-murder in the country was committed by a psycho(s) with guns. It was committed by a psycho with explosives. (Bath, MI, sometime in the 1920's.)

 

[TallPine]

who hear will argue on behalf of the incompetent having unfettered access to guns?)

Heck, we elect them to congress all the time.

So why not let them have guns - they couldn't do much more damage than they already are doing.

 

[triggertime]

answerguy,

"What everyone hears is: "I don't want my gun traced back to me after I use it in a crime"

So you're insinuating that any American citizen who understands the principles outlined in the Constitution and then holds the opinion that the gub'mint has no business monitoring, tracking or regulating the sale of firearms automatically possesses some form of criminal intent?

Ergo, Constitutionalists = Criminals?

Don't paint with such a broad brush.