Would you buy a modern carbine in... .30 Carbine?

[cluttonfred]

With the high cost of the Auto Ordnance (Kahr) M1 Carbines, and the the even higher cost of a nice original GI model, does anyone else think a modern carbine in .30 Carbine would be fun and handy?

I am not talking about a reproduction, but a new design for the same cartridge, likely one that would accept standard, unmodified milspec 15- and 30-round magazines. Target price would be less than an Auto Ordnance M1 Carbine and more than a Hi Point, so say $399 MSRP.

It could be a mild-mannered, Clark Kent kind of gun, along the lines of a Marlin Camp 9/45 or Ruger PC9/40. Or it could be a Superman evil black rifle with the look of a long-barreled HK MP5 or the pistol-caliber ARs. Heck, it would even make a great bullpup like an FN PS90 for home defense or even police use.

So, sound interesting, or no? Thanks for your feedback.

 

[Der Verge]

I would be interested in the rifle, if it were chambered in anything but .30 carbine. The cartrige sucks as a rifle round, and doesn't make all that impressive of a handgun round either......

 

[Eric F]

I like the Idea. Several years ago at a gun show I saw an ar-15 barreled and modified for the 30 carbine. A $400 30 carbine would be just right for leo and home defense as well as a fu shooter. The problem with m-1 carbines is that they break. I have never seen one last more than a few thousand rounds with out something going south. I wish the Galial(Mispelled I am sure) 30 carbine would make an apearance for $400.

The cartrige sucks as a rifle round,

I would not say that I have shot a few 3 gun matches where a 223 could not knock down the steel plates with out specific shot placement where as this old guy with a 30 carbine was whiping every one because he could knock down plates with 1 shot.
At double the weight of the standard 223 and only 1/3 slower its a great round if only there was a better bullet selection I am sure it would be a better hunting round for small deer fox and cyote.

 

[Blackcloud6]

No. .30 Carbine is not a very good cartridge when compared to ones like .223. I'd take a carbine in .233. Heck I already have an M-Forgery.

 

[DerHossMeister]

I might consider it, if it were relatively cheap in price. Say the $500-600 range. While still maintaining a quality weapon.

And, if ammo manufacturers started producing spitzer tips instead of round-nose ball in quantities large enough to bring the ammo costs inline with .223 surplus.

Since what I'm asking for is nearly impossible, I don't see it happening.

 

[Eric F]

Another positive note is that 30 carbine is way easier to reload than 223.

When you look at the power factor
bullet weightxvelociety/1000

30 crabine 1900 fpsx110/1000=219

223 55x3200/1000=176

these are rough figures but certianly obtainable. I have seen 30 carbine speeds up to 2200fps and these are also gun game formulas but still the 30 carbine is respectable by these figures.

 

[cluttonfred]

I think comparing .30 carbine to .223 or other rifle cartridges is like comparing a pistol with a rifle -- they just don't relate to one another. The .30 Carbine round (and M1 Carbine) were designed to replace the .45 ACP (and Colt 1911 pistol) as the issue weapon for people who's jobs made a rifle too cumbersome -- artillery, medics, officers, even paratroopers. The .30 carbine is that very rare breed, not a pistol nor a rifle cartridge, but a carbine cartridge.

Here are some numbers from the Federal Cartridge site:

POWERSHOK, 30 Carbine, 110 grains, Soft Point RN, 18" barrel

Velocity in Feet Per Second

• Muzzle 1990
• 100 1564
• 200 1231

Energy in Foot Pounds

• Muzzle 967
• 100 597
• 200 370

Wind Drift in Inches 10 MPH Crosswind

• 100 3.5
• 200 15.1

Short Range Trajectory

• 50 0.7
• 100 0
• 200 -13.0

Long Range

• 50 3.9
• 100 6.5
• 200 0

This seems to me to be an awfully good general purpose round out to 100 yards or so. For comparison, that 597 foot-pounds of energy at 100 yards EXCEEDS any of the Federal's .357 Magnum self-defense loads from a 4" revolver at the muzzle. Those trajectories also show nice, flat shooting out to 100 yards, and why the original M1 Carbines had 0-100 yards/200 yards L-type flip rear sights.

All in all, it seems like a pretty handy thing to me, within the range limit of about 100 yards, find for plinking, home defense, police and even urban combat use.

 

[lmccrock]

Voted Yes for an EBR. No practicality whatsoever, but my AMT Automag III and 30 carbine Blackhawk have none, either. If the Oly Arms 30 carbine AR was more common, I might have gotten one. Sadly, no longer available.

30 carbine is sometimes considered a pistol round. Note that it must be trimmed after a very few loadings, since it headspaces on the cartridge mouth. None of my other pistol rounds need trimming. Easier to reload than 223? About the same for me. Both need trimming, or at least need length checked.

Lee

 

[GeezerwithGuns]

No, the .30 carbine round does not interest me at all.

 

[ArmedBear]

The only reason I'd get a .30 Carbine chambered gun is if I found an old M1 for a good price. The caliber is incidental to the gun, then.

Note that Ruger and Marlin both cut their pistol-caliber carbines due to lack of sales.

There's little point in comparing pistol ballistics to carbine ballistics. I'd hope that a long gun would have more energy than a relatively small handgun. What the handgun offers is that it's, well, a lot handier than a rifle.

If you're going to lug around a rifle, even a small one, there are better low-recoil rounds to shoot through it than the .30 Carbine. That's why you see so many new carbines made and sold in, say, 5.56.

Re steel plates, that range needs to use different plates. Plates need to be designed for the rounds that they're used with. If a .223 doesn't knock down the plates at a match that's being shot with .223's, that's the plates' problem. A slow, heavy round will do different things than a fast, light one, but steel plates are not human attackers one way or another.

 

[Lashlarue]

If the price was right, why not! More powerful than everything but a 44magnum and they seem limited to lever actions...

 

[ArmedBear]

I was sad to see the Deerfield go. If Ruger reintroduces it in their gray stainless finish, for a halfway-sane price, I'm interested in one of those. .44M is a good hunting round.

 

[blkbrd666]

I would also like to see a short and long barrel option on an semiauto pistol with better fit and finish than the AMT Automag, along with some different ergonomic grip configurations...something like CAA's ergo grips with replaceable front and back straps like a lot of semiauto polymer pistols come with now. I almost bought an AMT in .30 several times. With my eyes closed they start looking good, but then when I pick one up it immediately looks like the parts were popped straight out of a sand mold and assembled...then they slid the sides of the slide across a some concrete to get a "brushed" finish.

 

[Vaarok]

It's a dead-end round that's been eclipsed in many ways, both in economics and performance, and I consider it to be a gun-and-ammo system, much like the P90, where there might be other applications, but they're kinda a stretch.

 

[Ruger1280]

blkbrd666 wrote ...
I would also like to see a short and long barrel option on an semiauto pistol with better fit and finish than the AMT Automag,

I don't know how much you have dealt with an AMT - but every one of them that I had a chance to handle were marvelous pistols, and priced very well. Fit and finish on my own AutoMag II and AutoMag III was VERY well done. I have not shot an auto pistol out of the box that was as accurate or as reliable as the AutoMag III. My complaint about any of the AMT pistols is their spare magazines, sometime you got a good one and sometimes you didn't.

What good is the .30 Carbine - I really don't know. It has some very good qualities, but I think it suffers from it's own reputation. It is an excellent middle of the road cartridge - but it immediately pales because it is constantly compared to the .357 for some of the same type of applications. Then their is the percieved muzzle blast of the little cartridge - but anyone that knows anythin at all about handloading know what that's about and what to do.

Depending in how the new .327 Fed does, I think we just my be seeing the end of the .30 Carbine. I hate to see it, I have a Blackhawk and an AutoMag III.

Dave

 

[Snapping Twig]

My FIL carried one in the Pacific Theater of WW II and he hated it. No power.

I bought a Mini 30 and showed it to him, his eyes lit up and his smile was large. He told me he'd have carried that gladly as it has the power to reach out to the snipers that he couldn't get with the .30 carbine. The Mini 30 is the rifle the .30 carbine should have been.

So no, I wouldn't want a .30 carbine, but to those that do please don't let my bias affect you. All firearms are good and whatever floats your boat is a good thing.

Get one and enjoy it in good health.

 

[Eightball]

I've already got an Inland M1 Carbine, so I don't see the point of a new one, but if I were to buy a "new production" type, some flavor of bullpup that isn't that hideous drop-in stock that exists for M1 Carbines at the moment. And even then, I might still waffle on it.

 

[Monkeybear]

I just want Kahr to start making their M1s cheaper somehow. I already have SD and HD covered and I don't hunt so I am not too concerned with making the .30 carbine a useful round. I just like the look and feel of the M1.

 

[Robert14]

Make one chambered for the 7.62X39 & I would want one, OH WAIT.........

 

[Clipper]

I'd like to see something cheap to buy and cheap to shoot. I've been toying with the idea of buying another Hi-Point carbine and re-barreling it for the 7.62x25...

 

[W.E.G.]

Such a thing would have very limited appeal in view of the other firearms choices in the present market.

Lots of compact pistol-caliber carbines out there.

As far as practical application, there really are no likely circumstances where a .30 cabine rifle would be adequate, and where a carbine in .40 S&W, or .45 ACP (or better-yet -- .357 magnum) would not be equally suitable.

I was involved in a matter where a fella used a .30 carbine to kill two fella's in his living room. Apparently, it took the whole 30-round magazine to get the job done, with only 4 misses.

ball ammo

The "effectiveness" of the .30 carbine doesn't impress me much.

 

[jimmyraythomason]

It would appear that shooters today have been spoiled by the super selection of cartidge availability. The .30 U.S. carbine round is and was an excellent round for what it is/was intended. Dont try to tell my father-in-law who carried one for three years in Korea that it is underpowered. He would laugh loudly at your ignorance. YES,I would buy a modern carbine in .30 carbine.

 

[gcrookston]

I've owned several over the years and really don't have an interest in them any longer. puny round, not that accurate.

 

[ArmedBear]

It would appear that shooters today have been spoiled by the super selection of cartidge availability.

"Spoiled"? Whatever.

.44-40 is an effective deer round, too. I don't see too many people rushing out to buy $1000 deer rifles chambered in .44-40. That's because there are better cartridges.

Of course the .30 Carbine has killed people. So have .22LR, .38 S&W, .36 round balls over 21 grains of BP, wooden bows, shivs and baseball bats.

I don't see anyone saying that someone is "spoiled" when he buys a .38 Special +P.

Why not get a Colt 1851 Navy? I mean, great-great-granddad kilt him a might good number of injuns, coyotes and other varmints with his.

Goldurn NASCAR drivers are spoilt too, what with all them selections of race cars available to 'em. Old bootleggers ran whatever they could put together from the junkyard.

And don't even start with fresh and frozen food! Grandpa ate nothing but gray canned peas, Spam and powdered milk. Spoiled kids today want real ham? What's the world coming to?

 

[jimmyraythomason]

I never said that there weren't bigger,badder,better cartridges to choose from. There certainly are. But don't short sell the effectivness of a round simply because it is "outdated". Yes todays shooters certainly are SPOILED.