Would you buy a modern carbine in... .30 Carbine?

[dakotasin]

i enjoy my 30 carbine quite a bit, and it is good for introducing new shooters to the world of semi-auto rifles, and provides a few interesting points of comparison when comparing it to an ar-15 and the like. all that said, i think the 30 carbine is very limited in its usefulness to a range toy. it simply isn't accurate enough to be used as a varminter, and if it was it doesn't provide the explosive effect to keep it interesting. it is not powerful enough in many states to be legally used for big game, and it is not as comfortable as a lightweight ar-15 for home defense work.

last week i bought a ruger blackhawk in 30 carbine... even more fun than my usgi carbine!

 

[paintballdude902]

i would love one as a truck gun

im planning on buying a mini-14 in september when i turn 18 but the problem is i will have to shoot wolf

cant afford a nice rifle and expensive ammo

 

[elmerfudd]

I've already got rifles in both 5.56 and 7.62x39 that fill the same role and arguably do so better, so no, I can't see getting a modern .30 carbine. If I were to get a good deal on an old GI M1 Carbine however, that I wouldn't pass up. I'd get it for historical reasons and it's value as a collectible though, rather than as a practical rifle. I like milsurps!

 

[ArmedBear]

But don't short sell the effectivness of a round simply because it is "outdated".

Like I said, .36 Colt Navy revolvers were pretty effective, too. That's not selling them short.

But I wouldn't call someone who wants a more modern round in a modern revolver with a modern price tag, "spoiled."

Hence what I wrote about .44-40. Choosing a 7mm-08 in a $1000 modern rifle just makes more sense; there's nothing "spoiled" about it. Ditto for a modern carbine with a modern price. Might as well get a modern cartridge in it, even if the old ones did kill people.

 

[RX-178]

In a word, yes.


But as I'll often say:

I've never seen a firearm that I wouldn't buy, given the chance. There's just usually some other firearm that I'm saving up for at the time.

 

[Dilbert]

It would either have to be a very good looking, well made M1 Carbine copy, or an inexpensive (south of $500 msrp) new design built to take all the modern add on toys like lights, optics, verticle grips,etc, etc.

 

[jimmyraythomason]

A mil-surp/modern carbine in .30carbine cal with hi-cap mags loaded with jacketed hollowpoint ammo is the second best, IMO, HD defense weapon (second to a 12ga pumpgun). Light, manuverable in tight spaces ,30rd capacity and more than sufficient stoppability. Yes,Id buy one if I didn't already have a .30 cal carbine. I also have 7.62x39,5.56,.223,30-06,7mm,8mm,.300 Wthby mag, .38 special x2,.357,.44mag and 12ga.Pumpgun. plus .22s and .22mag. I am not under protected with the little carbine.

 

[elmerfudd]

Like I said, .36 Colt Navy revolvers were pretty effective, too. That's not selling them short.

But I wouldn't call someone who wants a more modern round in a modern revolver with a modern price tag, "spoiled."

Hence what I wrote about .44-40. Choosing a 7mm-08 in a $1000 modern rifle just makes more sense; there's nothing "spoiled" about it. Ditto for a modern carbine with a modern price. Might as well get a modern cartridge in it, even if the old ones did kill people.

That pretty much sums it up for me. I just can't think of anything that the .30 carbine cartridge does better than say the 7.62x39, 5.56x45, 5.45x39 or half a dozen others, but I can think of ways in which it doesn't measure up. So if it's not an original M1 Carbine I can't see why I would get one.

One possible exception; in a bolt gun it might make for a good silenced or relatively quiet non-silenced rifle using heavy bullets. Kind of like a .30 Whisper.

 

[dakotasin]

heavy bullets are tough because of the short case. this can be mitigated somewhat by using round nose designs, but spitzers are out of the question.

 

[R.W.Dale]

I would much rather have a semiautomatic EBR in.357 magnum..

Now that my friends would rock out

 

[TimboKhan]

I like the .30 carbine. My dad's favorite six-gun is a Ruger chambered such, and it is a blast to shoot. I think it would make a good cartridge for a carbine and would be interested in one. I probably would not be interested in an EBR chambered for the .30.

 

[DMK]

I was involved in a matter where a fella used a .30 carbine to kill two fella's in his living room. Apparently, it took the whole 30-round magazine to get the job done, with only 4 misses.

ball ammo

The "effectiveness" of the .30 carbine doesn't impress me much.

Don't you mean the "effectiveness" of "ball ammo" doesn't impress much?

 

[Ignition Override]

Paintballdude902:

Being a very late-bloomer to shooting (52), it certainly would be nice to support the American ammo companies.

However, if it were not for the affordable prices of Wolf ammo, I never would have bought my used Mini 14 and 30 this winter along with the newer Norinco SKS (an unfired 'cherry' with a chrome-lined barrel, for $200).
Even more so for the Mosin 44's price and ammo (300 rds. for about $55). They are all really fun plinking guns.

You might check somewhere for the Internet gun website photo of what an SKS Wolf x39 jhp round did to kill a feral pig with one shot. The photo is nasty: quite graphic and clear.
Maybe at 'Perfectunion' or 'Thefiringline'.

 

[M2 Carbine]

I'd like to see a gun like the Kel Tec PLR chambered for the 30 Carbine.

I'd also like to see some guns and ammo in 5.7 Johnson (necked down 30 cal Carbine) become available.
The 5.7 Johnson never caught on but it does a true 3,000 FPS from the M1 Carbine.

5.7 Johnson on the left. 5.7 FN on the right.

 

[JShirley]

I think the .30 Carbine is just fine for what it is.

I like the M1 Carbine platform even better. I'd love an M1 Carbine in 7.62x25mm, x39mm or 9x23mm Winchester.

This highlights the pistol caliber carbine question: even a "super" autopistol round like the 9x23mm Win will "only" be pushing a 147 grain bullet at 1600 fps from a rifle barrel. Compare this to a 7.62x39mm, which will be flying a minimum of 400 fps faster for a slightly heavier round with better SD.

John

 

[pinetree64]

I'd take one in a heartbeat! I just got back from the club after sending a 100 rounds out of my Inland M1. On the way home I was wondering why there weren't more guns offered for this cartridge. With soft points, these 110g pills would be an awesome close range gun. Your talking roughly 357mag performance in a handy light kicking carbine.

Mine serves as a home defense gun and a truck gun. Whether on the farm, at the river property or at my 1 acre in suburbia, I know I am well armed. If need, I'd have no qualms about hunting southern whitetail at handgun ranges with this cartridge. Though I am usually over-gunned with either my Ruger #1 in 45/70 with a Zeiss 3x9 compact scope or my customer 30-06AI with a Zeiss 3.5x10.

I voted for the HK MP5 sized gun...that would be sweet.

 

[grimjaw]

Couldn't we make up something gas-operated in .243 Winchester instead, and have it use M1A/M14/FAL mags?

jm

 

[ArmedBear]

9x23 Winchester?

Is that 9mm Largo, or something else?

 

[Dienekes]

About the only virtues the carbine and its round had were handiness and a certain cool factor--for what that was worth. When I was a college kid you could get them through the old DCM for $20, and even then I wasn't interested. Carried one quite a few miles in the service, and thought the early M16 was a whole lot better all around even then.

Picked one up when my son was small thinking it might have a future with him, but even glass bedding it and handloading for it it was a clunk. :banghead:Sold it and all the impedimenta--dies, lots of brass--and never looked back.

To fill the small rifle niche I now run an M4gery. There is NO comparison.

Now if you want to talk about the Garand--that's a whole different deal.

 

[Eric F]

Is that 9mm Largo

I think this is a 9x18

9x23 is a round developed by winchester almost entirely as a competition round has more case capacity so it can push a heavier buller faster.

 

[lmccrock]

9x23 Winchester is sortof a rimless 38 super sold (formerly???) by Winchester as factory ammo to make power factor in IPSC/USPSA.

9mm Largo is approximately 9x23 dimensionally (not 9x18) but 9x23 Win has about twice the pressure spec of 9mm Largo.

Lee

 

[Eric F]

9mm Largo is approximately 9x23 dimensionally (not 9x18)

Quite right I was thinking of the makarov I supose, some days I learn some thing new others I lear some thing I already knew once.

 

[BBroadside]

A little about the 9x23mm Winchester is here. It is not to be mistaken with the 9mm Win Mag which is bigger and probably not available any more.

I hope some competition guru can explain the advantages of high-velocity nines to me ... it seems like if IPSC Power Factor is purely based on momentum the same thing could be done at lower pressure (and the same recoil) with a .40, .41, or .45-caliber bullet. Which is to say nothing bad about 9x23 Win or .357 SIG, though, I just don't get the ballistic "secret".

In any case, I'm a strong proponent of the "mid-sized cartridge in a mid-sized gun" idea. If there are derringers in .45-70, and 11-pound target rifles in .22 LR, there should darn well be some six-pound carbines in hot pistol rounds. (Or so this particular non-gunsmith.)

I've been kicking around an idea for a Jeff Cooper-style thumper. It would be externally similar to the M1 carbine, but instead of using the (obsolete) .44 AMP, it would employ the up-and-coming .460 Rowland. If it could fire .45 ACP and/or .45 Super, all the better. Put ghost-ring sights on it, and leave some bare barrel for reflex or red-dot sight, and you might have something great! (I discovered there is already a .450 Bushmaster upper for AR-15s, which is more powerful than this. Darn those gun companies, always beating out my undeveloped notions.)

 

[Eric F]

it seems like if IPSC Power Factor is purely based on momentum the same thing could be done at lower pressure (and the same recoil) with a .40, .41, or .45-caliber bullet.

Its been a long time since I was involved with ipsc but here is my try to explain

The fast 9mm is to make power factor, the high pressure is needed to function a compensated gun. folks run the compensators because its a free-bee of running an optiv verses the iron sights. Ist called open class. And beleive it or not the higher pressure rounds in a well compensated gun gets you the power factor with less recoil than a minor power factor low pressure round will make in a noncomp gun. I hope this explains it to you.

 

[Carbon_15]

no..but I sure would like an M1 Carbine in a pistol caliber...9mm, .357, 10mm would be nice.

EDIT: Ohhh...7.62x25 would be cool...as long as the cheap surplus ammo lasts