Would you hot load a .45 Long Colt

[Guns&Religion]

I'm considering the purchase of a Ruger Blackhawk Bisley Convertable (45 LC/45 ACP). If it's build like the 44mag version, I'm thinking it should be able to take equally hot loads. I was wondering if the 45LC version would be able to take the stronger loads.

I'm not asking anyone for a greenlight to do this, or to evade responsibility if the gun is damaged, but the Ruger's are very strong guns. I was just wondering if any of you would have reservations about firing a hot load like this in a 45LC revolver like the Bisely?

 

[KodiakBeer]

There are "Ruger only" loads for .45 Colt. So yeah, as long as you stay within the "Ruger only " parameters you're safe.

 

[GRIZ22]

Perhaps. I am not a fan of hotrodding a cartridge to something it wasn't intended to be. If I want 44 mag performance, I'll use a 44 mag.

 

[rcmodel]

One way to look at it is:
.45 ACP +P is loaded to 23,000 PSI.
.45 Colt standard pressure is loaded to 14,000 PSI.

The holes in the cylinders are the same size.

So yes, you do have some play room left.

"Ruger only" load data is generally held to around 25,000 PSI.

The .44 Mag is rated at 36,000, but has less metal removed from the smaller chambers so the cylinder is stronger.

rc

 

[Wil Terry]

I WOULD SUGGEST YOU GIVE HEAVY THOUGHT TO CHANGING YOUR TERMINOLOGY !!!
You should be thinking of " heavy loads " not---NOT !!!---hot loads.
A RUGER BLACKHAWK 45COLT will not take the pressure their 44mag pistols will; NOT EVEN CLOSE !!! AT BEST they'll handle maybe 80% of the pressure levels of the 44MAG guns. This is AT BEST, let no one tell you otherwise.
STOP AND THINK....how in the world can the same size cylinder as the 44MAG uses be chambered in 45COLT and have the same strength chamber walls ??? You-cut-a-bigger-hole-you-got-thinner-walls. LOTS thinner as the 44MAG is really a 43MAG and the 45COLT is really and truly a 45 caliber hole.
And so it goes....

 

[gamestalker]

The specifics of this are so well defined that my loading books have two separate sections for the 45LC. One clearly represents loads for the Ruger, and the other is for everything else. However, my books are older and don't include the many modern reintroduced models being offered by just about every one that are capable of with standing full magnum type loads. I have personally loaded for the 45LC for the Black Hawk and used the higher pressure data without any issues or apprehension doing so.
But as with any load, regardless of the cartridge or firearm considered, always use proper load work up procedures. Every firearm of even the same model or production run has dimmensional variations in chamber and barrel chacteristics.

 

[RidgwayCO]

Loading a .45 Colt to 20,000 psi using a 270gr Keith-style bullet allows me to easily exceed Colorado's energy requirements for hunting big game with a handgun (550 ft-lbs at 50 yards). I don't go higher than this because I don't think it adds measurably to the round's killing power, but does put extra stress on my Ruger Bisley Blackhawk Convertible (and me).

For this task I've found Alliant 2400, Accurate #9, and VihtaVuori N110 to be excellent.

 

[CraigC]

I'm glad I'm not the only one put off by the term "hot load".

Yes, your new Ruger will be able to withstand a lifetime of "Ruger only" loads. IMHO, the best source for this data is Hodgdon and John Linebaugh. This article is generally considered the last word on the subject but bear in mind that it is over 20yrs old and some of the .44Mag references are no longer valid.

http://www.customsixguns.com/writings/dissolving_the_myth.htm

 

[ljnowell]

I WOULD SUGGEST YOU GIVE HEAVY THOUGHT TO CHANGING YOUR TERMINOLOGY !!!
You should be thinking of " heavy loads " not---NOT !!!---hot loads.
A RUGER BLACKHAWK 45COLT will not take the pressure their 44mag pistols will; NOT EVEN CLOSE !!! AT BEST they'll handle maybe 80% of the pressure levels of the 44MAG guns. This is AT BEST, let no one tell you otherwise.
STOP AND THINK....how in the world can the same size cylinder as the 44MAG uses be chambered in 45COLT and have the same strength chamber walls ??? You-cut-a-bigger-hole-you-got-thinner-walls. LOTS thinner as the 44MAG is really a 43MAG and the 45COLT is really and truly a 45 caliber hole.
And so it goes....

Will, testing has proven that you are not entirely correct. Just because there is less metal there doesnt mean that it still isnt capable of those pressures. What it means is that the 44mag is capable of more than its rated for also. I load my 45 colt blackhawk "hot" and thats the only way to word it, because thats what it is.

I can easily make 44mag performance levels, and do it with less pressure to boot. Working off a max of 32k CUP I can still equal or beat 44mag performance.

 

[Guns&Religion]

Thanks for the posts guys, I'm just looking for information, as I idly consider purchasing my next single-action revolver.

It should not suprise most of you by now when I say that I've never reloaded anything in my life, though I'm considering getting into it, because of the versatility and the cost savings.

That's why I posted the question here first, and I appreciate all the responses.

 

[Flatbush Harry]

As has been noted, there are Ruger/TC loads in some manuals (I use Hornady's 7th ed.) for the OLD STYLE VAQUEROs AND BLACKHAWKS (THE LARGER FRAME VERSIONS). They are not "hot" but they are a heavier load. If you want to play with "hot loads", go to a .460 S&W Magnum, for which a .454 Casull is a light load and the .45 Colt is an even lighter one.

FH

 

[USSR]

.45 ACP +P is loaded to 23,000 PSI.
.45 Colt standard pressure is loaded to 14,000 PSI.

The holes in the cylinders are the same size.

+1. Google Linebaugh and Taffin in regards to loading for the .45 Colt.

Don

 

[Seedtick]

I load Ruger only loads for my 45 Blackhawk Convertible......
.
.
.
.
...and I like it!




Seedtick

 

[Steve C]

Follow the loading manuals for the guns the loads are intended for. That means Ruger/TC loads for those pistols only. I've personally seen one Ruger .45 Colt BH was blown apart by either a careless hand loader or someone who believed that they could be loaded well beyond the manual maximum.

 

[Walkalong]

Way back when I had a Ruger Blackhawk in .45 Colt, I ran "Ruger Only" loads in it.

 

[Uniquedot]

The holes in the cylinders are the same size.

I wasn't aware that 45 colts were being made sized for acp diameter bullets...or am i misunderstanding?

 

[zxcvbob]

My favorite load for my 7.5" Bisley is about 20000 or 21000 psi, using Red Dot powder. (the same ballistics could be achieved at much lower pressures using a slower powder like Unique or Herco) I do load up some zombie-stomper loads, and they are fun to shoot a cylinderful every once in a while, but the fun wears off really quick.

25000 psi using Blue Dot or slower powder and you are in the same ballpark as full-power .44 Magnum. I wouldn't take it beyond about 27000 (even though folks do all the time) because the cylinder walls are so thin.

You should also get some FF or FFF black powder and give that a try. Just make sure to clean the gun really well (use hot water first, then clean as normal) after shooting BP.

 

[MCMXI]

I WOULD SUGGEST YOU GIVE HEAVY THOUGHT TO CHANGING YOUR TERMINOLOGY !!!
You should be thinking of " heavy loads " not---NOT !!!---hot loads.
A RUGER BLACKHAWK 45COLT will not take the pressure their 44mag pistols will; NOT EVEN CLOSE !!! AT BEST they'll handle maybe 80% of the pressure levels of the 44MAG guns. This is AT BEST, let no one tell you otherwise.
STOP AND THINK....how in the world can the same size cylinder as the 44MAG uses be chambered in 45COLT and have the same strength chamber walls ??? You-cut-a-bigger-hole-you-got-thinner-walls. LOTS thinner as the 44MAG is really a 43MAG and the 45COLT is really and truly a 45 caliber hole.
And so it goes....

Heavy .. hot ... who cares?! Both are correct. If you use more powder, the cartridge will be heavier. If you use more powder, the heat of combustion will be higher (hotter).

As for the revolver in question, I have a pair of Ruger Bisley Blackhawk convertibles that come with a non-fluted .45 Colt cylinder and a fluted .45 ACP cylinder. If you know anything about the Ruger Super Redhawk Alaskan (which I also have), you will know that it also comes with a non-fluted cylinder that is dimensionally equivalent to the Blackhawk cylinder and capable of containing the .454 Casull. So how HOT or HEAVY do you think you can go with a .45 Colt load in the same cylinder?

 

[CraigC]

Will, testing has proven that you are not entirely correct. Just because there is less metal there doesnt mean that it still isnt capable of those pressures. What it means is that the 44mag is capable of more than its rated for also.

What testing? Who advocates pushing Ruger .45's to 40,000psi? Terry is correct, as usual. Linebaugh proved that they are 80% as strong as their .44Mag counterparts.

I load my 45 colt blackhawk "hot" and thats the only way to word it, because thats what it is.

"Hot" is a vague, relative and in a technical discussion of handloading practices, a useless term.

I can easily make 44mag performance levels, and do it with less pressure to boot. Working off a max of 32k CUP I can still equal or beat 44mag performance.

This gets repeated all the time but it is simply untrue. The two are very, very close in performance but the .44Mag still retains a slight edge in sectional density (for practical weights) and velocity to balance out the .45's slight edge in diameter.

So how HOT or HEAVY do you think you can go with a .45 Colt load in the same cylinder?

55,000psi.

Are you implying that unfluted cylinders are somehow stronger???

 

[MCMXI]

55,000psi.

The SAAMI spec for the .454 Casull is 55,000 CUP which is twice the pressure of the SAAMI spec for Ruger only .45 Colt loads at 25,000 CUP.

Are you implying that unfluted cylinders are somehow stronger???

The Super Redhawk Alaksan non-fluted cylinder is able to withstand 55,000 CUP .454 Casull loads. The Blackhawk Bisley convertible has the same non-fluted cylinder so it's not much of a stretch to assume that it is also capable of withstanding pressure WAY in excess of Ruger only .45 Colt loads.

 

[zxcvbob]

Are you sure it's the same cylinder?

 

[MCMXI]

Are you sure it's the same cylinder?

The SRH is a DA revolver whereas the BH is a single action revolver so clearly they're not exactly the same. The SRH might be slightly longer to accommodate the .454 Casull but I'll measure them when I get home tonight. I'll measure the diameter too.

 

[GaryL]

I'd like to respectfully suggest you mark those loads in such a way as to prevent them from being used in a SA replica by mistake.

 

[Red Cent]

Won't get into the you-know contest but............

When I get the 22-250 up to about 3800-3900fps with a 53gr Sierra BTHP, that is getting hot.

When I get either of my 7MM Mags up to about 3200-3300fps witha 140gr SP that is gettting hot.

At least in all the discussions I have had with other varmint-deer-elephanthunters, we all have used the term "hot". In the slightly NE section of the US, I have never heard the term "heavy load" used. Sorry, but as far as I am concerned it is semantics. And, CraigC, I don't agree with "useless". At the same level, "heavy" would be considered a vague/broad word. However, both give the audience a sense of meanig.

Maybe it is geographical culture.

 

[Old Scratch]

"Hot" or "Heavy"...what difference does a word make? There are no differential criteria defining either usage. This argument is like shoveling fog.

As to the real question...is it safe to load 45 Colt to higher pressures and energies out of a Blackhawk? My answer is an emphatic yes.

I have been doing it for years and could not ask for more from a revolver. When one is putting a 335 grain bullet downrange at well over 1100 fps from a 4 5/8" bbl...with minimal muzzle flash and blast...one has an effective weapon for game. Can one do "more" with a 44? In theory, yes. If one is willing to blind himself with his own muzzle flash and blow his ears off with the blast. A gun that is only useful during daylight hours and while wearing earphones is like an army that goes on leave for weekends and holidays. The Magnums can do great things...but at a great price. Caveat emptor.