I load 44mag velocities in my 45lc 7.5" BH.. it is a lot of fun. hold on tight.. don't let the bickering get you sidetracked, just use the ruger only data and load 'em to whatever you want, just make sure you work up and test.. the 45lc is a great cartriidge when you get past the "old" pressure limits.. the nice thing is you can load some lighter lead bullets and it's a blast to plink with all day. load up some 44 mag velocities, and it's a great hunting pistol.. I like the elpaso sadlery "1942 tanker rig" it's saaaweeet!
Would you hot load a .45 Long Colt
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Ruger only loads will work in a Ruger. This should be obvious. Ruger Blackhawks have much more metal in them than Colt SAA's or Colt SAA replicas.
But, do you like recoil? Shooting loads that are almost 44 Magnum level in a Blackhawk is going to hurt.
I would hate to fire a full power magnum in a Blackhawk frame. I have the 44 Spl version. 1000 fps with a 240gr is close to uncomfortable with that pistol. I had a FIE Hombre in 44 Mag, a very light single action, it was horribly uncomfortable to shoot full power loads in the thing.
I am a wimp. I don't like recoil.
But, do you like recoil? Shooting loads that are almost 44 Magnum level in a Blackhawk is going to hurt.
I would hate to fire a full power magnum in a Blackhawk frame. I have the 44 Spl version. 1000 fps with a 240gr is close to uncomfortable with that pistol. I had a FIE Hombre in 44 Mag, a very light single action, it was horribly uncomfortable to shoot full power loads in the thing.
I am a wimp. I don't like recoil.
Seedtick
Member
1858
Sir, those are BEAUTIFUL!
________
beau·ti·ful
adj.
1. Having qualities that delight the senses, especially the sense of sight.
2. Excellent; wonderful.
thefreedictionary.com
________
qualities that delight the senses...
Yep, that's a fit.
Seedtick
Sir, those are BEAUTIFUL!
________
beau·ti·ful
adj.
1. Having qualities that delight the senses, especially the sense of sight.
2. Excellent; wonderful.
thefreedictionary.com
________
qualities that delight the senses...
Yep, that's a fit.
Seedtick
ljnowell
Member
Where did I say anyone recomended that, can you please tell me? I certainly never post on these forums of loading to that level either. If my post was vague and made it sound that way, then I apologize, I was referring to the fact that the 44mag Blackhawk was a very strong gun and that the 45 colt would certainly be more capable than the 45colt SAAMI specs. You will notice after that I said "working with a 32K CUP max......".
I'm sorry, I can't afford pressure testing equipment, is it alright if I still participate? Maybe I could borrow yours?
It can be very true. It depends on the loadings.
murf said:
Good point!! Anyway, just as an out of interest thing, I measured the O.D. of the Blackhawk cylinders and the Super Redhawk cylinder. The BHs are 1.7290" and the SRH is 1.7920". It's been a while since I thought about this, but I seem to remember something about Ruger using a special alloy for the SRH cylinder as well. So the thought here is if you want to shoot really, really heavy or hot .45 Colt loads, a Super Redhawk may be a good investment. They're kind of cheap for such a stout revolver.
Ridgerunner665
Member
I have fired a fair number of hot 45 Colt loads...and enjoyed them immensely.
But my wrists can't handle them anymore
But my wrists can't handle them anymore
USSR
Member
In my case, I have a S&W 25-5, so I stay inside the maximum pressure spec's for the .45 ACP +P (23k psi), for which the S&W Model 25-2 is chambered. A .45 caliber 265gr hollowpoint bullet at 1,000fps is nothing to sneeze at.
Don
Don
ranger335v
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I'm always bemused by desires to "hot load" handguns. They ARE handguns, and that means poor ballistic coefficents and low bullet speeds that will rapidly decrease no matter if they start a tad faster than 'normal' anyway. If I really thought I needed a bit more terminal speed I think I'd wait or work to get another 15 - 25 ft. closer, that would probalby do as much good on game as a hot load could accomplish.
I'm also puzzled over the comments about the mighty .44 mag. I've been shooting my original M 29/6" since '67. I do use ear muffs when practicing (do it with .22 RF too) but my ears haven't fallen off yet, even when hunting, and the muzzle blast has never started any wildfires or blown over any small trees, etc. My once 115 lb./5'9" wife used to shoot it two handed with full loads and thought it was fun. (She hit pretty good with it, she would beat me and most of my old gun club unless we used both hands too! She called my 1911 with GI hardball a "toy" back then.)
I'm also puzzled over the comments about the mighty .44 mag. I've been shooting my original M 29/6" since '67. I do use ear muffs when practicing (do it with .22 RF too) but my ears haven't fallen off yet, even when hunting, and the muzzle blast has never started any wildfires or blown over any small trees, etc. My once 115 lb./5'9" wife used to shoot it two handed with full loads and thought it was fun. (She hit pretty good with it, she would beat me and most of my old gun club unless we used both hands too! She called my 1911 with GI hardball a "toy" back then.)
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Ranger- I disagree, when talking about many cartridges a hot load may be a slight advantage, but when your talking about 45lc it was a fairly slow cartridge, and your making some fairly large improvements in a ruger or TC by upping the charge. Same for the 45-70 a marlin load is a pretty healthy improvement.. I don't load "hot" in any guns.. because I'm well within ruger pressure limits, even though it would be a problem for an old SAA Colt or the like
ranger335v
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"Ranger- I disagree, when talking about many cartridges a hot load may be a slight advantage, but when your talking about 45lc it was a fairly slow cartridge, and your making some fairly large improvements in a ruger or TC by upping the charge."
I agree...IF you only look at the muzzle velocity rather than terminal velocity at any distance that makes a difference. But, heavy loads ARE phun and intimidate new guys.
I agree...IF you only look at the muzzle velocity rather than terminal velocity at any distance that makes a difference. But, heavy loads ARE phun and intimidate new guys.
BullfrogKen
Moderator Emeritus
Vacek said:
I remember reading the same cautions in my manuals when I developed loads for a .45 Colt Blackhawk. The cases are not as strong as .44 magnums. I still built up some pretty strong loads, stronger than the factory .45 Colt standards that were kept safe for guns like Smith & Wesson revolvers, anyway. But mostly I shot something at less power because it felt more pleasant.
USSR
Member
This idea dates back to the Pre-WW2 era when .45 Colt cases were of the balloon-head construction. Since the 1950's, .45 Colt brass has been constructed just like every other cartridge case, and the fact that they can withstand high pressure loads has been attested to by Linebaugh, Taffin and others.
Don
Red Cent
Member
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
SAAMI spec is 65,000psi, although most factory loads run around 55,000psi. So any factory .454 is fully safe for loads designed for custom five-shot single actions in the 50-55,000psi range. Ruger only .45Colt loads run up to 32,000CUP, although some manuals stop at 25,000.
It's WAAAAAY too much of a stretch. The lack of fluting is irrelevant. The Alaskan has a cylinder made of stronger steel, Carpenter Custom 465 stainless to be exact. It is used for its tensile strength and elasticity. So yes, there a huge difference between the two. The SRH cylinder is also larger in diameter. Larger enough, in fact, that standard .45Colt Redhawks (identical to the Super) can be run to 45-50,000psi. Your unfluted Bisleys are THE guns the standard 32,000psi loads were designed for. No more!!!
No, it is not. If you believe it to be so, then your knowledge of current .44Mag loads is lacking. Which is typical of .45Colt Kool Aid drinkers.
Another oft-repeated myth.
Great article, Seyfried is a favorite!
ljnowell
Member
Why resort to name calling? Can you not convey a thought with adult language? I could just as easy call you a 44 magnum coolaid kid too, but it would be childish, so I will not.
To those questioning the case strength of the 45 colt, read the link provided above to Linebaugh's take on the 45 colt. He discusses the case strength issue. The old balloon head cases were weaker, modern brass is not. Its just as strong as any other piece of brass.
zxcvbob
Member
An interesting gray area that's not explored much is in between SAAMI (14000 psi) and "Ruger" (25000+ psi.)
The European C.I.P. standard for .45 Colt has a maximum pressure of 16k (I can't remember the exact number) which is a nice step up from SAAMI and should be safe in any modern steel revolver.
The European C.I.P. standard for .45 Colt has a maximum pressure of 16k (I can't remember the exact number) which is a nice step up from SAAMI and should be safe in any modern steel revolver.
Another attribute to be considered is that for a given charge all-things-being-equal a 45lc will produce lower pressure at the same velocity when compared to the 44mag.. I shoot both out of a 7.5 BH 45lc and a SRH VR same length.. kolaid huh...hmmm I'll leave that alonethe 44mag operates at higher pressure, that's why you achieve similar results at lower pressures with a 45lc...get a load book out... the 44mag can be pushed just the same way as a 45lc can be, which puts it in a catagory that is unachieveable for the lc, however handloading a ruger to a level of facty mag ammo is not a stretch
KodiakBeer
member
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
Indeed and most of our contemporary experts consider the post-war Colt SAA, USFA's manufactured of domestic parts (last ten or so years) and the New Vaquero to be amply strong for loads in the 21-22,000psi range. Here we're looking at a 260-270gr cast bullet at 1050-1100fps. Which is mighty potent for a 36oz SAA. I know that the Hunter's Supply 275gr WFN over Dave Scovill's preferred charge of 2400 is very accurate out of my Colt New Frontier. He designed the RCBS 270SAA mold for just this purpose.
No name-calling, just truth. When you blindly repeat the same ole "more performance, less pressure" nonsense without any knowledge of what 'both' cartridges are capable of, the shoe fits.
Not at all. I'm fully aware of the capabilities of both cartridges as well as their shortcomings. The truth is that the difference is much more subtle than .45Colt true-believers would have you believe. The truth is that the only advantage the .45 has is the slightly broader diameter. In top, comparable loads (six-shot), the .44 retains a 100fps velocity advantage as well as higher sectional density. I made these comments before and you did not see fit to address them with "adult language" but rather parrot the same ole tired .45 argument.
Which gains you what, exactly? Similar velocities, not higher. The .44Mag retains a 100fps advantage across the board. In some cases, as much as 200fps.
suzukisam said:
This is easy to understand with a little simple math. The 45 has a larger surface area for that pressure to work against, providing more driving force on the bullet.
Edit: Upon reflection, I thought it might be good to spell this out. Granted the difference in dia between the 44mag and 45 colt isn't much, but the same principle still applies.
The area the force works on is pi * r * r (A = pi radius squared)
The circumference, or bearing surface, is 2 * pi * r (C = 2 pi radius)
So a simple example, radius = 1 (inch, mm, mile, units doesn't matter)
A = pi
C = 2 pi
Now increase dia by 100%, from 1 to 2
A = 4 pi
C = 4 pi
So, 2X the dia, area goes up 4X, circumference 2X
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KodiakBeer
member
Really? What velocity do you get with your 335 grain .44 slugs?
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