WP article: Court Upholds Gun Conviction, Police Stop

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yokel

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http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/06/22/AR2007062201904.html


Court Upholds Gun Conviction, Police Stop

D.C. Officers Lacked Just Cause, Appellant Tells Federal Judges

By Carol D. Leonnig
Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, June 23, 2007; Page B01

One March night in 2004, D.C. police stopped Melvin Goddard and three friends outside a Columbia Heights gas station while hunting for a fleeing car thief. All four fit the police's vague description of the suspect: a casually dressed black man.

Goddard did not take the car, but he had a gun in his waistband, which he quickly surrendered to police as they approached, according to court records. He was convicted of gun possession and appealed, arguing that he had been illegally stopped without just cause.
Yesterday, two judges on the U.S. Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit helped decide Goddard's case -- upholding the legality of the police stop and his conviction on the gun charge. But the judges -- one a black conservative and the other a white liberal -- debated a burning question they said the police stop had raised:

Do police officers rely on a different, and lower, standard for suspecting criminal behavior in a high-crime minority neighborhood?

The case centered on whether police had reasonable suspicion that Goddard and his friends might be involved in criminal activity when the four officers jumped out of their unmarked, police-issued Crown Victoria at the gas station on Sherman Avenue and stopped them. Based on a landmark 1968 court ruling, law enforcement officers cannot stop someone without a reasonable suspicion.

In the panel's 2 to 1 decision, Judge Janice Rogers Brown, who is black and a Bush appointee, found the standards used to stop Goddard "very troubling" and argued that allowing such a low level of suspicion would turn all black men in bad neighborhoods into suspects and set up an unequal standard.

"What we are now tempted to enforce is . . . the rule that in a high-crime neighborhood, being young, male and black creates reasonable, articulable suspicion," wrote Rogers Brown. "For as we all know, courts would not approve the search of four men in business attire, conversing peaceably in front of a Starbucks, if the only basis for the search was a 'lookout' broadcast specifying a white man, medium height and build, wearing a business suit."

Judge David S. Tatel, who is white, a leading liberal on the court and a Clinton appointee, said that he agreed with Brown's assessment of the fairness of such stops but that legal precedents tied his and Brown's hands. He said precedents from their court -- one of the most conservative in the country -- made siding with Goddard and against the police stop impossible.

"I share many of the dissent's concerns about how courts have applied [the search law] in high-crime, minority communities, and would welcome an opportunity to explore those concerns in depth," Tatel wrote. "This case, however, cannot provide that opportunity because the problems so well articulated by the dissent flow directly from a series of Supreme Court and D.C. Circuit decisions that bind this panel . . . and determine the outcome of the issues before us."

Brown asked about the larger issue of fairness required by the Constitution.
"By the district court's logic, police would have been able to stop virtually every casually dressed black man within a sixteen-block radius of the crime," she wrote of Goddard's conviction on the gun charge.
She argued that Goddard's conviction had to be overturned because the police learned about his gun only with an illegal stop.
"Is that too much to ask?" she wrote. "It is what the constitution requires; it is just enough."

© 2007 The Washington Post Company
 
Sounds fair. The guy fit the profile of the criminal, he was in the area, and the police just stopped him. The guy should have asked if he was being detained or free to go; then this would be a different issue.

The police didn't have any probable cause, they had a gut feeling. They were free to act on those feelings provided that they didn't infringe on any Constitutional rights. Goddard surrendered those rights when he didn't ask if he was being detained.

As far as me goes, the first thing I would have asked is if I was free to go or being detained. If the cops didn't act like punks then I would be willing to help them, but if they got all in my face and started to intimidate me I'd demand either to be charge or free to go.
 
You don't need PC to stop a car or a person just Articulable Reasonable Suspicion which these cops had, the driver then disarmed himself and gave the gun to the cops.

Good stop and a self incriminating case.

You have to remember this is DC, not GA or TN where the gun would not have been such a huge issue, maybe even an issue at all in this case where the guys were just Joe Average doing nothing wrong, but the stop is still good.
 
Yeah, I guess being in DC would raise a cops' suspicion level but they should still be operating within the letter of the law. Reasonable suspicion and probable cause. The bottom line as I've read the story is that these guys weren't the perpetrators that the cops were seeking but they did have a gun among themselves in an anti-gun venue backed up by the letter of the local law.

So, in the end; they(the guys who were stopped) knew what the local law says about guns in DC, they are guilty.

It is a stupid law that everyone ignores anyway. My uncle was a bookie who carried a gun for years in DC because of what he had to do was never stopped; he owned property there and everybody knew him and the people who worked for him. He never had a problem.
 
So, the logical course would have been for him to toss the gun under the back seat, outside of Terry boundries, identify himself and his compatriots, as the vehicle itself was identified as not being stolen, and then refuse a search of his vehicle, is this correct? then if PD had searched his vehicle beyond the Terry guidelines, the gun would be suppressed, the search illegal, and the conviction never reached.
Does this sound right to our local legal eagles?
 
You have to remember this is DC, not GA or TN where the gun would not have been such a huge issue, maybe even an issue at all in this case where the guys were just Joe Average doing nothing wrong, but the stop is still good.
I'm well aware of the Stalinist proclivities of the District with respect to RKBA.

In any event, methinks that Mr Goddard deserves a booby prize in recognition of his breathtaking dim-wittedness and gall.
 
Two amendments of the constitution clearly violated. The first violation is the law that prohibits the personal ownership of firearms, which violates the second amendment. The last violation is the unreasonable search, which violates the fourth amendment.

This story, among others found here proves the logic agreed upon by a lot of people here at THR. This logic is that you should never give into police officers request if said request is protected by the constitution. This is clearly a good example of a person trying to do the right thing. “Sir, do you have any weapons; if you lie to me I won’t be able to help you?” “Yes officer, I happen to have a gun.” The officer didn’t help him, did he? :banghead:
 
...a casually-dressed black man.
Wow. Pretty low standard of RS. They would take years stopping every black man in Dockers or FUBU. Heck, in the right light, they could approach me.
Judge Janice Rogers Brown,
On Dubya's short list for the Supreme Court. Let's hope.

Rick
 
Articulable Reasonable Suspicion

Isn't that the entire point of the article?

"By the district court's logic, police would have been able to stop virtually every casually dressed black man within a sixteen-block radius of the crime," she wrote of Goddard's conviction on the gun charge.

Does it fits today's standard of reasonable suspicion? They say yes, but is it right? Maybe you think so but is stopping every casually dressed black or white man in 16 blocks really reasonable? I think that is the real question.
 
Two amendments of the constitution clearly violated. The first violation is the law that prohibits the personal ownership of firearms, which violates the second amendment. The last violation is the unreasonable search, which violates the fourth amendment.

I agree with the point on the 2A, but your second point about unreasonable search is not right, read the story again. The guy gave the cops the gun as quickly as they approached. At that point he is admitting to a crime and surrendering the evidence to an officer, the officer made the arrest the search was first made most likely under the scope of looking for other weapons, his reason, they guy gave him a gun and then it was further carried out as a search incident to arrest.

Both were good searches, the guy handed the cop his PC to not only search but to arrest when he handed him the gun, this is DC we are talking about and guns are illegal there.
 
If I were on the jury, I'd vote to acquit.

You?

Rick
I wonder what the DC District Court would have to say?
 
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