Wrongful Arrest Recourse?

[NeverAgain26]

I was curious about what resort a citizen has if they were arrested wrongfully. I have seen stories and posts where some LEO's are not up on the law and arrest someone for something they should not have arrested them for.

On the way to my local range, I pass through another town where the range is located. I am fairly friendly with several of the LEO's in my town but in the town where my range is located, I don't know anyone on the force. I am concerned about what would happen if I got stopped for a traffic stop and the LEO stopping me was unfamiliar with laws concerning transport of guns. I have a perfectly clean driving record (no tickets in the last 30 years except for last week), but there is always the chance a traffic stop can occur.

I have always had plenty of respect for LEO's but a few weeks ago I got stopped for not wearing a seat belt in N.Y.C. I always wear a seat belt. I don't go a block without one. I was pulling into my parking lot, pulled off my seat belt preparing to leave the car and a LEO followed me into the lot and cited me for driving without a belt. I am fighting the ticket but this LEO had a real attitude. He took my license and issued me a ticket without letting me explain that my car won't drive 20 yards with someone in the driver's seat without a belt without that annoying ding-ding alarm.

Looking back, most of the LEO's I run into have this attitude that assumes guilt on the part of whomever they are inter-acting with. Even in my town, unless I am at the station chatting with a friend, when I run into a LEO on the street who does not know me, I get this look, like I am some kind of fiend. I am a clean cut, middle aged, normal dressing guy.

What would happen if a person were arrested when they were transporting firearms according to State Law and a LEO who was ignorant of the laws pulled them over for a traffic stop, learned they were transporting a gun (if asked I guess one should volunteer that they had an unloaded gun in the car in the back in a locked case) and not knowing the laws, arrested that person? Or what about if one had an assisted folder opening knife and the LEO who found it thought it was a switch-blade and pulled one in. Assisted folders are legal in N.J. and N.Y.C. as far as I know.

Of course, it could possibly all get smoothed out once the person got to someone at the station who knew the laws. Or it could not. A lawyer might need to be called to sort it out. The arrested person is out time and money and aggravation. Do they have any recourse? Does the LEO get reprimanded? Does the city pay the legal fees? Or do they just slap the LEO on the wrist and do you consider yourself lucky to get away? Is there some recourse? Can you sue?

Any lawyers or LEO's care to comment/give advice? Thanks in advance.

Saul Levy

 

[cropcirclewalker]

You're screwed. Move.

Open carry, concealed carry in a car, concealed carry with any state's permit is legal in MO.

Move.

 

[mp510]

Assisted folders are legal in N.J. and N.Y.C. as far as I know.

Buddy, keep your AO's away from NYC if you enjoy having them and not sitting in the NYC lock-up. They can very easily run you in for carrying a gravity knife, since the blade can be strong flipped open (that's all NYC rquires to consider it a grabvity nice). You can be charged with either an 'A' Misdomeanor or a felony depending on the specifics of the case. Also, if you enjoy your freedom, don't allow your knife to be carried openly in NYC, since that too is a crime (administrative law implemented by Mayor Ed Koch).

 

[Aguila Blanca]

Driving is driving. My car doesn't move if I'm not wearing a seatbelt. Especially not in a public parking lot.

Carry a copy of the NJ statute, preferably a photocopy directly from the statute book (which you should be able to find in a library). As to "volunteering" -- why would a cop in NJ ask about guns in the trunk on a routine traffic stop? If he specifically asks about guns in the trunk, don't lie, but if he asks general questions the answer is "I am not carrying any illegal weapons." Just be certain that you ARE transporting in accordance with the law, not taking shortcuts the way you did with the seatbelt. Unloaded means not loaded, cased means in a case, and locked means locked.

 

[NoPhilly]

In Philadelphia, you cannot be stopped (by law) for not wearing a seatbelt, although you can be ticketed for not wearing one if you are pulled over for any other infraction.

My question: Do police have jurisdiction over parking lots for traffic violations?

 

[neoncowboy]

(if asked I guess one should volunteer that they had an unloaded gun in the car in the back in a locked case)

Are you nuts?

If asked you should ask whether or not you are free to go.

Don't *ever* consent to a search or volunteer information about what is or might be in your car!

Pulled over for a traffic stop? Great. Give them your DL & Ins. card and accept the citation they may give you.

The advice you got to move out of NJ was good advice. Freedom is under attack all over America, but a most places are more free than NJ. I live in Georgia and the scenario you are describing sounds like a foreign country.

 

[Henry Bowman]

My question: Do police have jurisdiction over parking lots for traffic violations?

Generally, yes, if it is open to "the public."

 

[NeverAgain26]

cropcirclewalker: This could theoretically happen in any State, but I agree N.J./N.Y. are the pits for gun owners.

mp510: Thanks for the heads up. I will be careful not to bring my AO into N.Y.C.

NoPhilly: As far as I know, not wearing a seatbelt in a parking lot is not a traffic violation. N.Y.C. Cops probably have some quota of tickets they need to write and this particular guy was just a bit too rammy for my liking. That's why I am fighting it. It's more principle than the dollar amount of the fine.

Hawkmoon: I pull off my belt while I am rolling into the lot at 3mph and due to stop in the next five feet; that is not a shortcut and I resent the implication that I was taking a shortcut. The idea of copying the statute is a good idea, but that puts the burden on me. What hassle does the cop have to go through for being ignorant of the law? As far as shortcuts when transporting, I am meticulous to follow the law in regards the regs. Unloaded is exactly that, gun is in a locked case (even though regs specify a 'securely closed package' which could even mean wrapped up and tied). Ammo is separate from firearm. www.packing.org has good info on these subjects. NJ Cops should not ask about guns during a traffic stop, but if they are looking to make trouble, you know they might. I would not volunteer this info unless asked. However, CCW Permit Holders are obliged to volunteer the fact that they are carrying. Now, imagine running into a LEO who thinks all transport must be declared and you are up the creek because he did not take the time to know his law. He was wrong, I was right. What recourse is there?

neoncowboy: I agree with you, but if I am asked, I have nothing to hide. If I do not agree to a search, I am inviting the 4 cruisers with flashing lights to join their brother LEO in hassling me. Resisting Arrest? Disrespectful to Officer? It's their word against mine. Even if it all gets sorted out, who ends up paying? Me. Do they get penalized?

To sum it up N.J. is better than N.Y.C. where I was living before. Does it suck here? Yes. Is moving a practical option? Not really at this stage in my family's life because of work, schools, etc.

My questions about recourse are still no closer to getting answered. There is a good gun lawyer in this State. I will probably go in to see him and get more info, but I am curious what LEO's and Lawyer members of THR think.

Thanks for all your help.

Saul Levy

 

[TallPine]

My questions about recourse are still no closer to getting answered

Yes they are ... you live in a police state

BTW, in Montana the cops have no jurisdiction over parking lots. They will not respond even to an accident in a parking lot (private property). It is up to you and the owner of the other vehicle (and your insurance companies) to settle things.

 

[Jeff White]

Henry Bowman said;

Quote:
My question: Do police have jurisdiction over parking lots for traffic violations?

Generally, yes, if it is open to "the public."

Not everywhere. In Illinois the only two traffic laws that can be enforced on private property are DUI and Handicapped Parking. Makes for some interesting conversations and both relieved and disappointed drivers when there is an accident on the supermarket parking lot.

Jeff

 

[Aguila Blanca]

If you are ARRESTED for something that is not, in fact, a violation of the law, your recourse is to sue the officer and his department for false arrest. Beyond that, you would have to consult an attorney for a guesstimate of your chances of prevailing in the suit.

If you are "detained" and ultimately released -- short of being arrested, fingerprinted and booked -- I doubt you have much recourse but an attorney can better advise you.

 

[neoncowboy]

And if you are pulled over and refuse to answer any questions except to surrender your license/insurance card for their inspection, you aren't doing anything wrong or illegal at all.

If they hassle or arrest you at that point and you maintain your innocence, you have a lawsuit.

 

[evan price]

The important thing to remember is that a simple traffic stop IS NOT probable cause for a search. In order to search, you need to either A: Provide probable cause or B:Give Consent (CONSENT SEARCH)
Probable cause can be achieved by what the officer can physically perceive from outside the vehicle. The LEO may look thru any window, opening, etc. using a flashlight or whatever means available. Always rememeber, PLAIN SIGHT means the item can be seen- this includes stuff hidden in consoles or glove boxes that become visible when you open them to get your ID out.
The LEO can smell or hear things. The odor of marijuana for example is very discernable.
Probable cause arguments can be made for a driver or passenger who is anxious, nervous, won't make eye contact, makes TOO much eye contact, moves in a suspicious way, etc.
So to be honest what my LEO friends say, people in dirty cars tend to get searched. If you can't see the floor mats for the piles of crap, there's a good chance something will cause the officer to feel probable cause has been achieved.

Also remember, if you say anything suggesting the officer may search there now exists a CONSENT TO SEARCH. For example, "Yeah, I don't have any dope in the car, look around!" gives CONSENT to SEARCH.
The officer may ask you what you are carrying and where you are going. They may ask, "You mind if I take a look?" Simply say, "I don't consent to a search."

Failure to consent to a non-probable-cause search IS NOT probable cause to search. They may say, "An innocent person has nothing to hide." best reply? Say nothing and ask "Am I free to go?"