WTH: We are our own worst enemy.
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dogtown tom
Member
A case of the pot calling the kettle black?
Don't like THR members pointing out LIES that Alex Jones spreads every day?
But it's fine for YOU to call us "nuts"?
Just because _____________ makes a pro Second Amendment comment doesn't mean he's on "our side". First and foremost they want you to continue to tune in and keep their ratings up.
You might not like it, but perception is reality. Publicity craving crackpot nutjobs do the RKBA no favors.
helitack32f1
Member
Here is a link to a conversation between one of your "intelligent, well spoken" (Ben Carson) people and one who you probably consider less so, Glenn Beck. Interesting that Mr. Carson doesn't believe that you have a right to own a semi-auto firearm if you live in the city. And Beck is giving keynote speeches for the the NRA in favor of not allowing any of our rights to be infringed.
http://www.mediaite.com/tv/conserva...ht-to-semi-automatic-weapons-in-large-cities/
Well you might want to make the effort and make their acquaintance through their writings. When it comes to the RKBA they (not the Glenn Becks or the Alex Jones of this world) are the real deal.TanklessPro said:
Beginning more than twenty years ago, the Second Amendment scholarship of, especially, Kleck, Kople, Kates and Malcolm was getting published in well known and highly regarded journals. They did the heavy lifting to make RKBA research respectable and to lay the foundations for Heller and McDonald.
And while they aren't well known, we have the opportunity to introduce them to people. I've found it a very effective way to show the other side of Second Amendment advocacy to people who are sick and tired of the screaming and garbage of the the likes of Glenn Beck and Alex Jones.
helitack32f1
Member
Stated like yet another critic who has no clue about what Beck says, has done or is currently doing. Ignorance of what you are talking about does not help your cause but the anti's sure appreciate your help.
The OP was spot on.
OP
OP
TanklessPro
Member
Great. They did stuff in the back ground over twenty years ago. While I respect the past, they are not in front of the issues of today. If they are I still don't see them.
I'm not worried about what happened 20 years ago, I'm worried about now and tomorrow.
By the way I never said any of the people above are right. I just said why do we bash anybody in the media spotlight????? In way some of us are as bad as the antis.
TwoEyedJack
Member
Single issue voter? Yeah, guilty as charged. People who believe that the help gets to tell us what kind of firearms citizens can own have a fundamental misunderstanding of our system of government, and as far as I am concerned, are a clear and present danger to my personal liberty. I have only voted for two Democrats in my life. Both were state level, and one was a personal friend. After what happened in 1994, I would *never* vote to send a Democrat politician to Washington D.C.
For the same reason I would be critical of anyone else who spreads bad information or antagonizes people whose support I'm trying to promote.TanklessPro said:
gc70
Member
colonel kernel said:
Whether it is Glenn Beck or Piers Morgan, broadcast media personalities will say what they want to say, which is mainly whatever gets higher ratings. Whatever they say must interest enough people to keep them on the airwaves.
coolluke01
Member
Much of the anti gun behavior is in direct retaliation to the Glen Becks of this world. The media loves to give them attention because they are rash, loud and extreme. That type of person is not who I want speaking on my behalf.
We need a calm even keeled approach. This is not shouting from the rooftops! It's talking calmly with people we know one on one, and dissipating the fears and myths.
We are our own worst enemy. Those that don't trust anyone and think everyone is out to rip their guns from their hands, will see just that. It will be a self fulfilling prophecy. Relax, loosen the tinfoil hat a little and help promote a positive image of gun ownership and less of the crazy hillbilly who hates city folk!
We need a calm even keeled approach. This is not shouting from the rooftops! It's talking calmly with people we know one on one, and dissipating the fears and myths.
We are our own worst enemy. Those that don't trust anyone and think everyone is out to rip their guns from their hands, will see just that. It will be a self fulfilling prophecy. Relax, loosen the tinfoil hat a little and help promote a positive image of gun ownership and less of the crazy hillbilly who hates city folk!
Here's the thing: Why do people have a right to self defense? What does the right to self defense entail?
This is a philosophical issue to which everyone has a different opinion on, but if we discuss it on philosophical instead of ideological grounds, we can present a good argument for why we need AR-15s for self defense. It is better than having no argument other than "It's my right to" because not everyone agrees that it is a right - but they can be persuaded if we offer logically and philosophically valid arguments instead ideological ones.
Wow. Holy crap.
Amen.
leprechaun50
Member
+1 You are right. A calm factual approach beats a bunch of hot air any day.
TCB in TN
Member
And you are making some assumptions about those with whom you wish to debate that in my experience are completely unfounded. The average anti, doesn't care about your philosophy. He/she merely cares that you are a gun owning, violent, POS and when you aren't out killing baby kittens you are buying more guns to allow you to kill even more baby kittens.
Those folks don't watch CNN or any other channel to become informed, and even if they did those kind of programs don't get advertising. "News" is about ratings. Ratings are based on how entertaining you are.
I love Thomas Sowell, list him among the top 5 or 6 smartest people I have listened to. He does a great job when he fills in for Rush, he isn't carrying Rush's show. I don't listen often, but GB seems to be right most of the time, but he is in your face and entertaining.
If that isn't what you want, then put your money up and hire someone you like to do a show. I would probably watch one like what you describe. Most people won't.
I haven't seen the thread you mention...but...I gather from your statement that some folks don't like the RKBA people you mention and they called them nuts.
Then I read your post...where you say you don't like the RKBA folks in the thread...and you then called them nuts.
Why is it OK for you to call people nuts...but not for other folks to call people nuts?
On the one hand you seem to expect everyone to get behind anyone who has a an RKBA stance...but then on the other hand you come in here and call everyone who disagrees with you a nut.
Do you expect this to be an effective method of getting people on your side?
And you are absolutely correct. Lots of gun owners and 2nd Amendeny supporters are social socialists. Too afraid to stand on their own. How do you think we got the President we have now? I mean really?
I would bet fully 35% of the THR voted for NOBAMA but you.would never get them to admit it. Or, as my poll earlier this year demonstrated rather clearly, they are "purists" who vote for a third party, that stands no chance of winning, which is as good as a vote for NOBAMA. Doubt me? Just ask those railing about Glen Beck for starters...but you won't get honest answers in all likelihood.
All because the electable alternative isn't pure enough for them, or "will only make the "evil" corporations rich". As if that is even possible in our Country with a Corporate Tax rate that is the highest of any of the developed Nations, including freaking FRANCE.
Completely unrelated, except for the faith in humanity aspects......
I have ZERO faith in humanity. I am amazed every day at how many stupid, irresponsible people there are in this Country. Just look at all those who had to be bailed out of their homes with MY MONEY because they leveraged themselves beyond their means. Better yet, look at the bankruptcy rate and average credit card debt of US households.
When do people who are responsible with their lives stop getting screwed over by all the irresponsible leaches? Oh, and it won't stop until there are consequences and accountability for those irresponsible actions. But the fix has been in for that for a very long time.
I would bet fully 35% of the THR voted for NOBAMA but you.would never get them to admit it. Or, as my poll earlier this year demonstrated rather clearly, they are "purists" who vote for a third party, that stands no chance of winning, which is as good as a vote for NOBAMA. Doubt me? Just ask those railing about Glen Beck for starters...but you won't get honest answers in all likelihood.
All because the electable alternative isn't pure enough for them, or "will only make the "evil" corporations rich". As if that is even possible in our Country with a Corporate Tax rate that is the highest of any of the developed Nations, including freaking FRANCE.
Completely unrelated, except for the faith in humanity aspects......
I have ZERO faith in humanity. I am amazed every day at how many stupid, irresponsible people there are in this Country. Just look at all those who had to be bailed out of their homes with MY MONEY because they leveraged themselves beyond their means. Better yet, look at the bankruptcy rate and average credit card debt of US households.
When do people who are responsible with their lives stop getting screwed over by all the irresponsible leaches? Oh, and it won't stop until there are consequences and accountability for those irresponsible actions. But the fix has been in for that for a very long time.
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TCB in TN
Member
I am more than willing to have a rational discussion. But it takes both sides being rational. You cannot have the discussion you describe with far to much of the opposition they are not just opposed to guns, but to actual freedom.
BTW I too have faith in humanity, I have complete faith that most people will ignore reality and cling to a comforting but impossible promise given any opportunity. Just like all of those individuals who listened to our POTUS when he promised them free healthcare, more redistribution of wealth, and free ______ (fill in the blank).
As for the ideals, and enlightenment, well I do tend to try and live my ideals, but I will say that the ideals that I hold dear (based on the writings of Jefferson, Madison, Franklin, etc) are not considered to be very enlightened these days.
JRH6856
Member
That would only be true if the President is elected purely by popular vote. This is not the case. POTUS is elected by the electoral collage, and if someone resided in a safely red state (such as Texas), they could safely vote for a third party without any chance of 0bama benefiting.
JRH6856
Member
When I am in a discussion with someone regarding the 2nd Amendment or the Constitution as the basis of law, I want and need supporting references to document and support my position. The sources need to be credible, scholarly sources or good reputation and respect. These are requirements that are not in any way met by FOXNews, Rush Limbaugh, Ann Coulter, Glenn Beck, Alex Jones, Sara Palin, or any infotainer pundit you could name. I reject them as sources in the same way that reject MSNBC, Rachel Maddow, Piers Morgan, Bill Maher, Chris Matthews, Thom Hartmann, or any similar infotainer as credible sources for opposing views.
Credibility requires consistantly reliable factual accuracy, not hit or miss scattershooting or stretching the truth a bit to make it fit a point and hoping no one will notice or think it important if they do notice. IT IS IMPORTANT.
Infotainers depend on the confirmation bias of their audience for their popularity. They say what they know their audience wants to hear and by continually repeating it, they constantly reinforce their listeners belief and their desire to hear confirmation of that belief. It doesn't matter to the infotainer if what they say is true or not. Their ratings depend on their audience believing it to be true because it confirms what the audience believes.
Depending on infotainers for the truth is like depending on a broken clock for the correct time: If you get it, it is only by fortunate coincidence.
Someone said we need Glenn Beck to get the fence sitters off the fence. He might do it, but if the fence-sitter has any degree of objectivity and capacity for critical thinking, he will probably be driven to the other side of the fence. I'm not sitting on the fence and Beck comes pretty close to driving me to the other side. But I was here first and I'm not moving.
Credibility requires consistantly reliable factual accuracy, not hit or miss scattershooting or stretching the truth a bit to make it fit a point and hoping no one will notice or think it important if they do notice. IT IS IMPORTANT.
Infotainers depend on the confirmation bias of their audience for their popularity. They say what they know their audience wants to hear and by continually repeating it, they constantly reinforce their listeners belief and their desire to hear confirmation of that belief. It doesn't matter to the infotainer if what they say is true or not. Their ratings depend on their audience believing it to be true because it confirms what the audience believes.
Depending on infotainers for the truth is like depending on a broken clock for the correct time: If you get it, it is only by fortunate coincidence.
Someone said we need Glenn Beck to get the fence sitters off the fence. He might do it, but if the fence-sitter has any degree of objectivity and capacity for critical thinking, he will probably be driven to the other side of the fence. I'm not sitting on the fence and Beck comes pretty close to driving me to the other side. But I was here first and I'm not moving.
That would only be true if the President is elected purely by popular vote. This is not the case. POTUS is elected by the electoral collage, and if someone resided in a safely red state (such as Texas), they could safely vote for a third party without any chance of 0bama benefiting.
That matters not in the least.
It means that I can vote my conscience, that matters a lot.
JRH6856, good points. I almost make it a point that I do not rely on those sources for information. The issue with people such as Beck is that some people have such a disdain for the man that anything he is for they are against. (I am not saying it is right or wrong but merely an observation). People do not trust the NRA. While it is important to support organizations that support our rights its really up to us as shooters to get out there. We need to be the ones talking to people intelligently. Bringing them into the "shooting culture" so to speak. We may not get them all but I honestly see that as being one of our best defenses.
Bruno2
Member
Sabbath Wolf beat me to it. I was going to say "the other side has plenty of crazies too". How about Carolyn McCarthy and "the shoulder thingy that goes up"? You know we still clown around with that every chance we get. She is their Alex Jones. You know a lot of antis were probably ready to string her up after the backlash of that comment was felt. We do need to back our team. Think of it as family. You don't get to pick your family. You just kind of get what God gives you. So yeah, I am in favor of backing our people.
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