WW2 Choice of Theater Operations?

[Father Knows Best]

My father flew 31 missions as a waist gunner/toggalier aboard a B-17G in 1944-45, flying with the 15th Air Force from Foggia, Italy. In his later years, Dad finally related some of his experiences. I feel his was probably a better experience than the infantry grunts slogging through the jungles of Southeast Asia, or those fighting their way through Italy and western Europe. Still, Dad saw his share of planes next to his own simply explode, of be shot down violently, with the loss of all aboard.

I dunno about the "better experience" part of it. Sure, bomber crews got to return to warm meals and comfy beds every night, but the casualty rate was a lot higher than it was for the ground pounders. If your dad flew 31 missions, he was unusually lucky.

I'm not an expert, but I seem to recall hearing that the overall casualty rate for American infantrymen in the European theater was 10%, and something like 40-50% for bomber crews. Given those odds, I think I'd take a muddy foxhole in France or Belgium over an airbase in England or Italy.

That said(tm), I wonder how well I would handle infantry combat. I can easily see myself climbing into a bomber and setting off on a mission. Yes, you know that the odds of getting seriously injured or killed are high, but at the time you set out, the combat is pretty remote. By the time the shooting starts, you've got no choice but to fight and pray for the best.

I cringe, though, when I watch Saving Private Ryan or Band of Brothers. Could I really go over a wall, or charging up an alley, in the face of a hail of machine gun fire? Somehow, that seems an awful lot harder to do. And I don't think I can imagine anything more terrifying than what it must have been like to be crouched in a foxhole during an artillery barrage.

 

[High Planes Drifter]

I know it would be hell on earth , but Im going to say 101st Airborne, 506th Parachute Infantry Regiment ,European theater. Weapon: M1 rifle, 1911 sidearm.

 

[Stickjockey]

I'd have to go with ETO, Air Corps, myself. As to the "weapon", I'm torn. The Mustang is a hot ship, but eight fifties means never having to say you're sorry!

Grunt story: My Great Uncle was in the Signal Corps in the Pacific. He told me that they did all their work at night, between the lines, and everyone was shooting at them. The Japanese thought they were American, the Americans though they were Japanese!

That's all I could get out of him; he wouldn't talk about it.

 

[RNB65]

That said(tm), I wonder how well I would handle infantry combat. I can easily see myself climbing into a bomber and setting off on a mission. Yes, you know that the odds of getting seriously injured or killed are high, but at the time you set out, the combat is pretty remote. By the time the shooting starts, you've got no choice but to fight and pray for the best.

An airshow I attended a couple of years ago had a B-17 demo which included simulated bomb runs. The thing that really struck me was how incredibly SLOW they are. The cruising speed on a B-17 is/was only around 170mph. NASCAR racecars go much faster. I gained a new respect for B-17 air crews. It took serious courage to climb into one of those things and head into Germany.

 

[JohnBT]

I'd pick flying planes in the Pacific during WWII. I grew up on my father's stories about WWII, although when I was a youngster in the early '50s he mostly stuck to the funnier ones about little things that happened. He made it all the way to the Philippines and then home safely. I still kid him about what kind of idiots would serve in an outfit called the 13th.
_______________________________________________________________

"Activated at New Caledonia in the Coral Sea on Jan 13, 1943, Thirteenth Air Force began operations as a small organization composed of numerous widely separated and independent units scattered throughout the Pacific. From 1943-1945, Thirteenth Air Force staged out of tropical jungles on more than 40 remote islands, thus earning the nickname the Jungle Air Force.

Initially charged with taking a defensive stand against advancing enemy forces, Thirteenth Air Force later took the offensive and traveled from the Solomons to the Admiralty Islands, New Guinea, Morotai, and the Philippines. Jungle Air Force units have participated in five different operation areas and 13 campaigns, flying a variety of aircraft including the B-17 Flying Fortress, B-24 Liberator, B-25 Mitchell, B-26 Marauder, P-38 Lightning, P-39 Airacobra, P-40 Warhawk, P-61 Black Widow, C-46 Commando, C-47 Skytrain, and the L-5 Sentinel.

Thirteenth Air Force established its headquarters at Clark Field, Philippines, in January 1946."

 

[HankB]

My ideal specific position would be as a point-defense asset specifically assigned to provide personal overwatch for either MacArthur or Patton.

My father told me a story about how he & his buddies got some of MacArthur's "point-defense assets" drunk, and used that as an opportunity to steal all of MacArthur's food.

They smuggled it off base in a C-47 which didn't exist, having been cannibalized from bastard parts . . . when radio calls went out an hour or two after departure for all aircraft to return to the base, they decided to maintain radio silence, as it may have been a Jap trick.

Guys got a day or two of fresh (not powdered!) eggs, bacon, and other good chow, and MacArthur got to eat like a regular GI until a couple of B-24s made a round trip back Stateside to reprovision him. (MacArthur was neither loved nor respected by most GIs.)

As for my choice of where to serve . . . I'd choose the position of one of the grunts guarding Hawaii's military facilities after 12/7/41. Or maybe one of Ike's "point-defense assets."

As if I'd have a choice . . .

 

[Baba Louie]

After reading several of Farley Mowat's books on his Canadian Army experiences in the Italian campaign (The Regiment, And No Birds Sang, My Fathers Son... I do love reading any and everything he's written BTW) and re-reading Audie Murphy's To Hell and Back... being a grunt in Italy wouldn't be my first choice.

As a kid, of course, my heroes were also fighter pilots, Eagle Squadron, AVG/24th, Zemke's Wolfpack, Blakeslee's 4th Fighter group, Joe Foss and VMF-121... so many, too many.

But you did say grunts...

Have to be Marine Corps, PTO. Nothing wrong with an '03 or BAR, later the Garand. Years ago I read a book called "The Right Kind of war" by McCormick (?)... no deguello. Good, old fashioned Racist type hatred for the enemy as well as by the enemy (we're too wise to fall for that old baloney nowadays, neh? Witness our non-attacks on certain nations in the mid-east who provide much needed oil to keep the old world's economy going... would've been a little different back in '41 I think. Appropros of nothing whatsoever, I always wondered why the Saudi Royal family fled to Switzerland on Sept 12, 2001... not so stupid an act, me thinks but I digress). Also, for any lurking youngsters, Tregaski's "Guadalcanal Diary" is worth a good read or two as is Leon Uris' "Battle Cry" (actually Uris is another author whose writing is well worth reading).

 

[bootlegger]

North Africa/Italy

Quote Husker1911:

As a middle aged man now myself, the thing I'd like to pass along to younger THR posters is this: My father, and nearly all veterans of WWII and the Korean Conflict, rarely spoke of their experiences. As was common of nearly all veterans of his time, my own father, even with the prodding of three curious sons, didn't truly speak of his experiences until the three of us were grown men ourselves. These men were truly of The Greatest Generation. They made the world safe for the American Republic to prosper, and to win the following Cold war.

Agree totally...my father was well into his 70's before he talked much about his experiences in North Africa and Italy as a M5 light tank crew member. During Operation Torch tank crews we not issued small arms but quickly obtained battlfield pickups.

 

[thumper723]

Me,

I'd like to be an F4U pilot off of a Carrier. I flew by the USS Lexington enough times in flight school on the TACAN 13R approach into NAS Corpus Christi, to wonder if I could either land a T-34C on it, or what it was like back when it was a Straight Deck. (The Lex was later converted to an angle deck in the 50's)

 

[Sistema1927]

After reading "Band of Brothers" and " "Beyond the Band of Brothers" I think that if I was dropped by time-machine into 1942 that I would want to be a part of Easy Company, 506th PIR.

Yes, it seemed that they tended to get the dirty jobs, but the training, comradrie, and esprit de corps kept these men going and allowed many of them to come home.

 

[Thefabulousfink]

I think I'd have to go with Europe or N Africa. I am not too fond of bugs and diseases. I have a ton of respect for the Marines and US Army bubbas that fought in the hell that was the Pacific, and the Brits, Aussies, and Indians who slogged through Burma, but is is not a duty I would volunteer for.

Both my grandfathers fought in the war, just on opposite sides . One was a mechanic in the Army Air Corps, the other was an infantryman in the Italian army in N Africa. My American grandfather made it safely through the war, my Italian grandfather drove a jeep(the Italian equivilant) over a landmine and was sent to a hospital in Northern Italy for much of the war. When he was finally released, the Americans had invaded Italy, the Italians had effectively surrendered, and the Gremans were conscripting anyone they could find to try and halt the American adavance. When they released my grandfather from the hospital he was given a set of clothes, a pair of shoes, his personal effects, and shown the door. It was up to him to walk to his home in Southern Italy (bottom of the boot), across the front lines of the war, and avoid capture by both the Gremans and Americans.

From my Grandfather's discription and what I have read in history books, I would rather storm the beach at Normandy than spend a day in some of the fighting at Anzio or Casino.

People call it the "Greatest Generation" and that is true, but it was not just the brave soldiers of the USA, people all over the world rose to the challenge and did what needed to be done to survive. My Grandfather was born a poor farmer in Italy, survived being conscripted and wounded in the war, raised a family, and brought them to America where he ran a successful business for many years, he lived quite a life.

May God rest his soul.

 

[ilbob]

Being a Jarhead, I would rather be in any unit commanded by Col. Puller during WW2.

Why is it that he never really got his due outside of the USMC?

 

[RonC]

I'd probably go for the European campaign,

but would rather be Army if I was in the Pacific. Many of the amphibian landings were poorly planned, particularly in the early and middle parts of the war, resulting in enormously high Marine casualties.

My father fought in N. Africa and was part of the Anzio amphibious landings. He hated the water because he couldn't swim, so they made him amphibious.

The Anzio landing itself wasn't difficult as there was only one German division in opposition. But when Clark and Prescott decided to fortify the beachhead for 3 weeks, 14 German divisions came down from N. Italy. If they had forged ahead, they likely could have been in Rome in a short time. Once the German divisions joined the fight, that's when it got tough. Ultimately, my father was wounded by shrapnel from the railroad guns (Anzio Annie and the like). He thought he was paralyzed because, every time he tried to stand, he fell over. Turned out that he had shrapnel in his feet, and the soles (or heels) or his shoes had been fused together by hot shrapnel . That's why he couldn't stand up.
In the foxholes, he developed yellow jaundice (hepatitis). After a hospital stay, he was transferred into a supply outfit, driving a truck through the Italian mountains.

Ron

 

[dfaugh]

Well, I can tell you where NOT to be

My father was a tailgunner in a B-17...On his third mission, they were shot up so bad they didn't think they'd make it back. Took a 20mm cannon shell right in the waist. They jettisoned EVERYTHING, including their boots and sidearms, even the belly turret (and the Norden Bombsight which they shot up first.) in order to lighten the plane. Just barely cleared the Cliffs of Dover to land at an emergency airfield, where the tail broke off on landing. Dad said (and he wasn't one to exagerate) that besides the HUGE hole in the waist there were 18 holes in the wings, big enough to put your head through. Dad blew out both eardrums, spent quite abit of time in hospital, then (luckily, instaed of getting sent to the Pacific) got a job chauferring a General around in a Jeep.

My uncle was one of the paratroopers (101st Airborne?) dropped behind enemy lines on D-Day. Also not much of a picnic.

But from what I've seen and read, Europe was better , aspecially if you got captured. The Germans mostly treated their prisoners with some civility, which was not always tru of the Japanese.

 

[Roadwild17]

My grandfather only told me enough of his days to get me curious

PTO with a BAR

 

[Harry Paget Flashman]

My Dad was an Army Air Corps pilot in the ETO. He rarely talked about it. After he passed away my Mom told me a few stories...mostly of the friends he lost. There was the story too of his landing near enemy lines during the Battle of the Bulge to offload a planeload of 5 gallon Jerry cans of gasoline while taking enemy rifle rounds through the fuselage. Dad flew cargo and paratrooper missions and had neither speed, stealth or maneuverability to avoid the German fighters. That took guts.

I had an older friend who was a 1stLT in the Army from Normandy to Germany. He vowed to God never to complain about being hot if he survived the European cold. He has lived in North Florida since 1945 and I have never seen him without a long-sleeve shirt or light jacket. I've been to Southern France and Northern Italy in the Spring and for me...it's cold then.

I spent 26 years in the Navy and I wouldn't have wanted to do convoy duty in the North Atlantic. Read Nicholas Monsarrat's The Cruel Sea. If I was alive then, I'd do what everyone else did. I'd go where they sent me.

 

[cz75bdneos22]

+2 on the Pacific War Museum in Fredricksburg, Tx.
that said, i would have prefered to have participated in one of the European battles.

 

[280PLUS]

Hers a few pics of my uncle in New Guinea. Very tough duty. They were required to take Atabrine to prevent malaria and it's rumored to have made them pretty sick and jaundiced looking. I have before and after pics of him and the change that took place in him over the 36 months he was there is staggering. He was 36 when he went. He was a coxswain for one of the "Special Boat brigades". I guess I'd chose the South Pacific just because of his history plus I went there myself in the 70's when I was in the Navy. We're mighty proud of that guy.

Funny note, he was Army but wore a sailor looking uniform for fatigues.

The sign (sorry the clarity is not better in these) says "Remember this (naked lady) Take Atabrine"

 

[roo_ster]

Hmm, I think I would want to be an essential war worker stateside.

Barring that, I would prefer a Ranger or Airborne unit in NW Europe.

Weapon would be a toss-up: M1 Garand or Thompson if in heavy urban conflict.

 

[the 22 junkie]

PTO, Marines (heat and humidity don't bother me, hell, can't be that much worse than Texas ), M1 Carbine please.

 

[bowfin]

I would take the Pacific Theater. A lot of those islands were not like the swampy jungles of New Guinea and Guadalcanal, some were mostly palm trees and coral. Plenty hot, but not like North Africa.

Also, most Pacific island campaigns last days or a couple of weeks, while some divisions in the ETO stayed in the line for months.

New Guinea and Burma would probably be the worst, followed by Iwo Jima and Guadalcanal.

AAF heavy bombers (especially the more fragile B-24) would statistically make you a dead man several times over before reaching 50 missions, as was mandated later in the war, after they saw the 25 mission limit flown by Memphis Belle "era" aviators was going to run the AAF out of aircrews too fast.

Oh, and it would be a coin toss between a Garand and M1 Carbine. I am sure whatever you picked would be second choice in certain situations, such as marching or shooting across hilltops.

 

[Warren]

Anybody up for being a guntub crewman during Coral Sea, Midway, or Letye Gulf?

 

[Deaf Smith]

Depends on the fighting methods.

If aircraft, I'd pick SWAPO ( South West Pacific Area ) cause our fighers were 50 to 80 mph faster than anything the Japs had, plus planes like the P-38 had as much range, if not more, that the Japs had.

Navy? The Alantic. No question. Way to many sharks in the Pacific and except for U-boats, the Germans really didn't have much (and forget the Italians, they really didn't have much.)

If grunt fighting on the ground, I'd pick Iceland. What? No fighting, only guard duty? Yea, that's right.

But seriously, I'd pick the ETO for ground fighting. M1 Garand and 1911, hands down. If, unfortunatly, I'd end up in the Pacific, then untill the M1 Carbine came out, I'd pick the BAR and 1911.

Hey, we had the best weapons, bar none. The Japs were not even close, aircraft, tanks, ships, etc... they were doomed from PH on. But the fighting was extreamly vicious and over 10 times the number of nervious breakdowns were had in the Pacific .vs. ETO. And of course, the Japs didn't really take many prisioners, nor treat them like anything but animals.

And if I was in the Pacific, I'd be under Douglas MacArthur. He didn't waste lives like the Navy and Marines did.

 

[Tokugawa]

Ya know, this is great fun and all but judging from the combat vets I have known, I think I will opt for some remf job. Those shooters came back with a lot of unseen wounds which haunted them for the rest of thier lives. Sometimes thier families bore the burden as well.

The comment about being cold struck home. After bro #2 came back from nam he had to move south to alabama just to feel warm! He regarded anything north of the mason dixon line as being suitable for polar bears only!

 

[Cosmoline]

You guys are nuts. It's like asking which part of hell you want to go to--the hot side or the other hot side. I have some idea what rifles and artillery will do. You can sign me up for shoveling s*** in Louisiana, thank you very much!