yes, a retarted AK question

[TheDisturbed1]

I bought Lord Of War on DVD and I loved it apart from the fact that it called the US an arms dealer

But about how all these stolen/smuggled Kalashnikov AK-47's are smuggled into warzones and then sold to extremists and such...

Our fighting pride over in Iraq and Afghanistan are getting mangled by these .30 weapons and im curious as to where they come from.

I know that Romania has their military supplied with a domestic arms company that copycats alot of Russian weapons and systems including AK's, PKM's, and even RPG's... but as far as I know they dont carry markings in Russian.

But does anyone know, the general area of manufacture for most insurgent small arms? (excl. Tabuk)

 

[Afy]

Ah the international arms bazaar...

Well a lot comes from seemingly legit transactions, Pakistan, China, Romania, etc. Arms shipments are then re-routed.

 

[selector67]

In 2004-05 the United States bought some 200,000 small arms from Bosnia to equip the Iraqi military, but there is no evidence that they reached there destination, did the insurgents get them? who knows, I would not doubt it.

 

[MassMark]

There is a great documentary on the Afghan arms market. I remember seeing AK's being manufactured, (along with 9mm pistols) on site. Not from parts kits, but from scratch - by hand - many being made by children. It's not a difficult weapon to manufacture and does not require high-tech equipment to do it...Many of the guns being used against us have no markings because they are home made....

 

[dstorm1911]

Yugoslavia up untill they screwed up and got themelves erased as a country, now Romani, Romania has been supplying small arms for 40 years but after Yugoslavia got themselves hammered Romania stepped up to fill the role they are geographically in a perfect position......... why do ya suppose the Sadar Arsenal still produces a 7.62x39 when their own Army and as of 1986 their national gaurd only uses 5.45x39? Hint it isn't so they can make WASRs and sell em to Century Arms for $13 ea......... The Romanians streamlined production in 1983 to use the same front trunions for both calibers etc... They also make a cr#pload of squad level weapons for the international market, Cugir arsenal used to handle this production and built much higher quality guns but in 2003 they were retooled to build nastier an bigger toys

 

[Phantom Warrior]

Our fighting pride over in Iraq and Afghanistan are getting mangled by these .30 weapons and im curious as to where they come from.

Just for your SA, we're getting mangled by EFPs and deep buried IEDs. Only one of our guys has been killed by small arms fire.

 

[DMK]

I know that Romania has their military supplied with a domestic arms company that copycats alot of Russian weapons and systems including AK's, PKM's, and even RPG's... but as far as I know they dont carry markings in Russian.

A LOT of countries make AKs and other Russian designs. AKs are/were made by Yugoslavia, Romania, Poland, East Germany, N. Korea, China, Bulgaria, and a number of others that I can't remember. None of those would have Russian markings. Every country has it's own unique markings and slight variations to the design.

Once the wall fell in Russia, all the Warsaw pact nations were forced to learn the ways of capitalism real fast, just to survive and feed their people. Great armies were cut way back. Many arms were surplused. I'm sure some of the deals weren't always completely legit.

From the pics of confiscated and captured AKs I've seen, there's a lot of Chinese, Yugoslavian and Romanian AKs over there. Most of the pics I've seen from pre-invasion, when Saddam was in power showed his armies equipped with Romanian AKs and their distinctive wooded forward pistol grip. I'd imagine a lot of Iraqi military armories were looted when the govt. fell and the guards headed for the sand dunes.

 

[nezumi]

"apart from the fact that it called the US an arms dealer "

Ever heard of the Iran-Contra scandal? Or Nicaragua? Or Afghanistan? The US has been selling arms to questionable sources for a very long time, generally to people who wouldn't pass a background check, and without a 7 day waiting period.

 

[HorseSoldier]

I believe the Ukraine, post-USSR, was a big supplier for a while, as well as the other countries already mentioned.

 

[ATC]

There are examples of every nationality available in Iraq. If I had to pick the top one tho it would be Romanian.

 

[buck00]

The most general explanation is the Russians exported the technology to a great deal of client states over the past 50 years, who made their own AKs. Moscow also exported millions upon millions of AK-47s to third world countries to fight capitalism and colonialism- example, Asia, Africa, and the Middle East. Right there- you have millions of AKs that could be resold or shipped later to anywhere, and obviously many are in Iraq.

As far as Iraq, it was receiving heavy arms supplies from the USSR in the 70's and 80's (as they were fighting Iran, who was supporting Islamic rebels in Afghanistan). So right there- Iraq has an absurd amount of Warsaw pact small arms to begin with.

 

[MD_Willington]

If you can hand rivet or run a hydraulic press, you can make an AK from parts... Pretty simple stuff...

 

[44AMP]

The Dogs of War

Prior to the collapse of the Iron Curtain into a pile of rust, and the flooding of the West with former communist weapons on the cheap, legitimate arms makers in the west used a system called an "End User Certificate". The process (and how it is gotten around) is well explained in the old Forsyth novel, The Dogs of War.

Basically an End User Certificate is a legal document from the buyer, stating that they are the "end user" of the material. The seller has a valid legal paper stating that the buyer is the user, the weapons/ammo is not for resale, and so can sell with a clear concience, and meet the laws of their country.

What actually happens to the material after that depends on who is paying for it. And that system only applies to legal arms dealers. Black market dealers like the "Lord of War" never did comply with the laws and international agreements, which is why they are sought by law enforcement officers from many countries.