M16 rather than notorious AK47

[Guy B. Meredith]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,315121,00.html

U.S. Military to Provide Afghan Army With M-16 Rifles

Tuesday , December 04, 2007
By Justin Fishel

FC1
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WASHINGTON —
The U.S. military will provide the Afghan army with U.S.-made M-16 rifles as part of an effort to make up for a shortage of small arms power among Afghan security forces, FOX News learned Tuesday.

Officials in the Pentagon say the move is part of a continuing effort to ensure these forces are adequately equipped to do their mission. That mission has been to been fight a steadily increasing Taliban resistance and influx of foreign fighters, a trend that Defense Secretary Robert Gates acknowledged during his visit to Afghanistan on Tuesday.

Typically, Afghan soldiers carry the notorious Russian modeled Kalashnikov, or AK-47, an assault rifle known for its durability and reliable shooting. After the Cold War ended, the market was flooded with AK-47s and it soon became the insurgents' weapon of choice. They were cheap, easy to maintain and had a reputation for working in even the harshest conditions, including the dry and dusty regions common to Afghanistan.

But now the Afghans are seeing a spike in overall violence and attacks, and they need more weapons for the fight.

According to Maj. Gen. Robert Cone, who spoke with reporters traveling with Gates, the U.S. is poised to deliver as many as 60,000 M-16s at a rate of 10,000 a month. The weapons will be provided at no cost to the Afghan government.

As it stands a delivery of 60,000 rifles would surpass the current force level of the Afghan army, which is now at 57,000 troops. However, the Afghan military has a stated a goal of 70,000 Army troops by March 2008. Afghanistan's defense ministry announced Tuesday that in order to stand against external threats and the Taliban insurgency the army will need to reach a total force of 200,000 men.

Others in the Pentagon say now is the time for the U.S. to take control in a fashion similar to the surge in Iraq. Marine commandant Gen. James Conway recommends sending 25,000 Marines into Afghanistan with hopes they can use the counterinsurgency lessons learned in the Anbar provinces of Iraq. That plan, first proposed in early November, has so far not been approved by Gates.

 

[hankdatank1362]

I think this has been covered before. It still irks me.


Weapons that we can't legally buy are being given to foriegn soldiers at no cost to them (but at great cost to us.)

:barf.

 

[Halo is for Kids]

When all of this is over we're going to have some cheap surplus ammo.

 

[Evil Monkey]

Weapons that we can't legally buy are being given to foriegn soldiers at no cost to them (but at great cost to us.)

We are creating allies for the future. Why wouldn't you want that?

I just don't understand why people compare a native civilian's capability to acquire weapons to their government arming a friendly foreign nation. The two situations have nothing to do with each other.

 

[eldon519]

I think in this case, the native civilians have a lot more good will towards our government than this "friendly foreign nation."

 

[hankdatank1362]

I just don't understand why people compare a native civilian's capability to acquire weapons to their government arming a friendly foreign nation. The two situations have nothing to do with each other.

Oh, but it does. Uncle Sam doesn't trust you and me. But it does trust a bunch of Afghanis that are just one step removed from a conscript army.

And who do you think is paying for these rifles, my friend? You and I are footing the bill.

So basically, I can pay to arm some third-world freedom fighter, but I can't legally buy an identical post-86 M16 of my own? That is BS. Ind it does have the world to do with each other.

 

[Halo is for Kids]

And who do you think is paying for these rifles, my friend? You and I are footing the bill.

Charge it!!! US debt, it's everywhere you want to be! Mom and dad pay the bill anyway right?

 

[MudPuppy]

When all of this is over we're going to have some cheap surplus ammo.

I wish. However, its against "the law" (Clinton Dictator Decree, or whatever the executive mandate thing is called) prevents the sale of surplus ammo to US peasants/citizens. Quite likely part of the aid agreement that won't allow them to sell it off when they no longer have a need for it.

Need to get that asinine regulation revoked.

 

[onemsumba]

I wish. However, its against "the law" (Clinton Dictator Decree, or whatever the executive mandate thing is called) prevents the sale of surplus ammo to US peasants/citizens. Quite likely part of the aid agreement that won't allow them to sell it off when they no longer have a need for it.

then how do you explain ammo sales through the CMP?

Also I'm not sure what you guys are getting at regarding not being about to an M-16. You can buy as many AR-15 as you like, sure they are not full auto or 3 round burst but those type of weapons have been illeage since before either of us was born.

 

[hankdatank1362]

No, they weren't illegal, just heavily taxed. Until they closed the NFA regsitry. Now we can't even buy a new FA, but the Afghanis can get all they want for free.

 

[hankdatank1362]

And CMP ammo is mostly, if not all, Greek surplus, right? I've never seen any with the Lake City headstamp, but I could be wrong.

 

[GigaBuist]

sure they are not full auto or 3 round burst but those type of weapons have been illeage since before either of us was born.

Mmm... you might want to read up on NFA restrictions a bit.

 

[Halo is for Kids]

I wish. However, its against "the law" (Clinton Dictator Decree, or whatever the executive mandate thing is called) prevents the sale of surplus ammo to US peasants/citizens. Quite likely part of the aid agreement that won't allow them to sell it off when they no longer have a need for it.

All of the domestic manufactures have tooled up to produce 5.56 right? That means they can load more than we'll need. (eventually)

It's not surplus but it will be factory ammo cheap. I hope.

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

I just find it humorous that so many Americans want AKs (or some other rifle) because the AR15 is not a suitable fighting rifle while meanwhile, the Afghans and Iraqis want the AR15 instead of the AK.

It just strikes me as especially funny given that the real issue is the guy behind the trigger and his level of training.

 

[Frog48]

We are creating allies for the future.

No, we are arming future terrorists.

Its just a matter of time before these M16's are missing from Afghani armories, and in the hands of the Al-Qaida/Taliban types.

 

[NAK]

In the short term, it means 5.56/.223 is going up in price.

 

[Cosmoline]

Whatever we arm them with, the quislings will almost certainly fold within a few years of our exit, maybe a few months. Just as they did after the Soviets left. And our "allies" in Pakistan will support the Talibans who take over both countries. And the M-16's will be used against yet another western backed force. So it goes. Washington was right when he advised us to avoid foreign entanglements.

 

[trstafford]

I would take all the free M-16s you will give me instead of spending a dollar on an AK. They are not stupid.

How will we get cheap ammo from this deal? That goes with the M-16.

 

[jlbraun]

I just find it humorous that so many Americans want AKs (or some other rifle) because the AR15 is not a suitable fighting rifle while meanwhile, the Afghans and Iraqis want the AR15 instead of the AK.

The Americans have the M16, therefore the M16 is automatically better.

Wait till the first dust storm and they'll wish they had their old AKs back.

 

[HorseSoldier]

No, they weren't illegal, just heavily taxed. Until they closed the NFA regsitry. Now we can't even buy a new FA, but the Afghanis can get all they want for free.

Technically most any US citizen can get a fully automatic M16 or M4 just the same way an Afghan citizen will be able to get one, and under the same circumstances -- you just have to raise your right hand, take an oath, and sign away a chunk of your life and all that. Worked well for me.

It's not like we're going to have a great big line in Kabul to hand out free machineguns to the locals . . .

 

[nitestocker]

why dont we give them what they no how to use there ak47 there cheaper and more durable and more dependable in the desert if i were out there id prefer an ak hell id prefer one here thats my opinion

 

[HorseSoldier]

why dont we give them what they no how to use there ak47 there cheaper and more durable and more dependable in the desert if i were out there id prefer an ak hell id prefer one here thats my opinion

We're footing the bills, and we have domestic bulk production of 5.56mm ammo and tons of logistical support for the M16. Keeping a bunch of AKs running (they do break and wear out now and again, reputation aside), keeping troops supplied with magazines and ammo, etc., is all being done right now via foreign purchases. Switching to the M16 eases logistical issues in theater, but should also keep some more Americans working at Lake City, etc.

 

[wideym]

Giving Afgans M16s is stupid,stupid,stupid. Afganistan is at best a third world contry in the cities. Out in the countryside its more like a fourth or fifth world county.(If such a rating exits) Aks are cheaper, relieable and the locals know how to use/maintain them. Maybe someone at the pentagon or state dept. decieded to invest in Colt or FN and thought this would boost profits.

How about buying brand new AKs from Russia or a former Warsaw Pact nation now in NATO. I'm sure those countries have warehouses full of them. It would bolster good will from the seller and the Afgans.

It does irk me that my tax dollars are being spent this way. Also the price of .223 ammo from factorys in America and from overseas will only increase since they know the US .gov will be buying the Afgans ammo, probably at .gov prices (which civies can rarely afford).

 

[dstorm1911]

what makes it especially funny is that we blew up 10s of thousands of confiscated AKs thats why they are short on weapons in the first place! So now we pay extra to replace what should not have been destroyed in the first place but rather inspected and stockpiled....... Same thing going on in Iraq, American tax debt flows like water as far as the government is concerned.

As far as new Allies............ uhhhh that was the whole point behind us helping Osama Bin Laden setup training camps and providing $$ etc... back in the 80s........... ohhhhhhhhhh yea thats why we are in Aphgan in the first place cause our Allie decided he really does hate Americans and blew the crap outa a bunch of our civilians......... so.... how many Bin ladens are we helping train and arm this time around?

Ya know it just amazes the h#ll out of me how few Americans have the slightest ability to learn a single thing from the past, we also armed and equiped and trained the South Vietnamese too...... that also worked out great for us huh? Anyone recall the roster of Allies for WWII? think bout it for a minute

 

[VirgilCaine]

Afganistan is at best a third world contry in the cities. Out in the countryside its more like a fourth or fifth world county.(If such a rating exits)

Well, back on the Cold War, things stacked up like this:

1st World = U.S./NATO
2nd World = USSR/Warsaw Pact/China
3rd World = Everyone else.