Yet another shipping rant.

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willbrink

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Yet another shipping rant. No horror story per se, jut the run of the mill frustrations of a law abiding gun owner attempting to ship something and running into ignorance and anti gun attitudes.

I shipped the frame and slide of my Caspian Ti 1911 to Caspian to have the rails carbonized. Gun was completely stripped down to the frame and slide, so that’s no working firearm, that’d for dang sure. So I go into the local UPS corporate store to ship it. I always loath this part. Women asks “what are the contents?”

I say “fire arm parts.”

She gets that dreaded “oh my god the box may explode and kill me I hate guns, etc etc” look on her face as asks “It’s not a gun is it? Because if it’s a gun, I can’t ship it.”

I say “no, it’s parts of a gun but not a functional firearm, and BTW, you can ship firearms from a UPS store.”

She says “I don’t think we are able to ship guns and I am fairly sure you are wrong about that.”

Well, I am sure you can see where the conversation went from there. It makes me nuts when they don’t know the policy of the company they work for. I insured the parts and left.

I am always conflicted as to what to tell then. I could have just said metal parts and been correct. I, being a honest law abiding type, I try to do the “right thing” by telling them what the contents are accurately, but they sure don’t make you want to tell them, that’s for sure. Fire arm parts seemed the most accurate description and she would have looked at me as if I had three heads (she was already looking at me as if I had two heads for shipping evil gun related parts as is was) if I had said a slide and frame for a 1911….

I am sure people ship firearms and don’t disclose that fact all the time, but I am sure that opens the shipper up to all manner of liability and such, so I always tell them what’s in the box and wait for the inevitable conversation that follows.

That’s my rant for the week, which I know you all have experienced.
 
What city do you live in?......gives us an idea of the political gun climate. I've lived in 8 different states in the last 4 years and the women in Montana and Wyoming actually like guns. :D
 
People's Republic of MA. Nuff said there....:barf:

I will use an FFL next time to avoid the hassles I guess, but the UPS store is right down the st from me and the FFL is several towns over. :fire:
 
I just sent my M&P 9mm back to Smith for warranty work (shooting 6" low at 15 yds). I wanted a local dealer to ship it to save me the hassles like have been described above. I took it to the dealer, gave him the prepaid address UPS label and he asked where I bought the gun. I've done business with this guy before, he knows me. He's one of the few games in town, his prices are usually higher than his competition. I've bought a couple guns and some ammo from him in the past couple years.

I tell him I got it online. He smiles, tells me he knew I didn't get it from him because they don't sell M&P's because they are junk. These guys spout stuff like that from time to time if they don't stock the product. They said they could have probably got it cheaper for me, I said, "I doubt it, I paid $399."

Then he smiles again, "You get what you pay for!"

Bottom line, he's irritated I didn't buy at a higher price from him so he wants to charge me his standard FFL Transfer Fee to send the gun back for me. $35! I was thinking if he was going to charge anything at all it would be around $10 just because it would create a bit of extra work for him. $35 was out of line though.

I tell him no thanks, and leave without buying the $50 in ammo I was planning on. I check the S&W return letter again and they said I could call UPS for a pickup. I did. They came to my house, took the package, no freaky stuff from people behind the counter. That method worked out well for me.
 
I say “no, it’s parts of a gun but not a functional firearm, and BTW, you can ship firearms from a UPS store.”
Actually, you can't per their policy. I just went through this last week.

Also, seeing as the frame is considered the firearm, it would have been a crime to not disclose the fact that a "firearm" was in there.
 
That's a Brilliant idea, "Lets have a law that requires someone to mark the box so it says to all our employees, Hey there is a gun in here!" Why not just put a sticker on the side that says "Steal Me".
 
"You can only ship your package that contains a firearm from UPS daily pickup accounts and through UPS Customer Centers"

That does not inlcude a corp store? Next time I will use a hub/depot only but I still thought the UPS regs (URL posted above) covered a UPS corp. store.

Yes, due to frame being in box,I felt extra compelled to mention firearm in the description.
 
That does not inlcude a corp store? Next time I will use a hub/depot only but I still thought the UPS regs (URL posted above) covered a UPS corp. store.
No, their policies specify that you cannot ship firearms from the "UPS Store". You must go to the local hub.


From http://www.ups.com/content/us/en/resources/prepare/guidelines/firearms.html:
Your packages that contain firearms will not be accepted for shipment at UPS Drop Boxes, with UPS Express CriticalSM service, at locations of The UPS Store® or any third-party retailer, or with international services.
 
It is "Hub" only, print and take a copy of the "rules" with you so you can teach/show the uninformed if necessary and perhaps save yourself frustrations and stress.
 
I declare even fully functioning firearms as machine parts. I don't see any reason not to lie to them given the hysteria the truth causes. They aren't FBI agents after all.
 
Read the bottom portion of the UPS website. It says:
Your packages that contain firearms will not be accepted for shipment at UPS Drop Boxes, with UPS Express CriticalSM service, at locations of The UPS Store or any third-party retailer, or with international services

I always take mine directly to the UPS hub instead of dealing with the UPS Store folks.
 
+ 1 to Damiens comments.

I recently sent a Hi-Point 995 Carbine back to Beemiller for repair.

I was told by the lady at Beemiller to mark the box as "Machined Parts" and ship it via UPS. I did just that and had no problems. Remember a firearm that does not work is not a firearm it IS just machined parts.

And UPS can and does ship firearms. It was return shipped by UPS.
 
Remember a firearm that does not work is not a firearm it IS just machined parts.
Even a stripped lower requires a FFL. It may not be a firearm in the sense of local laws (carry, display, etc.), but in the sense of federal laws, it certainly is.
 
Not according to the ATF.

If it's going back and forth for service there is nothing illegal. It's only for transfers that a FFL is required to get involved on the receiving end.

Telling UPS that it's machine parts is nothing illegal, it's against UPS policy and if they open it up for any reason they can not only refuse to deliver it, but refuse any packages from you in the future. What is illegal would be to ship or have shipped a firearm across state lines to anyone but a FFL or yourself.
 
Telling UPS that it's machine parts is nothing illegal
The ATF says it is (from http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b8):

(B8) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier? [Back]

A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a) (3), 922(a)(5) and 922(e), 27 CFR 478.31 and 478.30]
 
Forget about educating the counter guy or gal at ups or fedex---just find the qualified person at the node you ship from that understands the policy and how they are implimented and call ahead to make sure they are at work when you are coming in. That is the best way.

NOT declaring that the content is a weapon (receiver being a weapon all by itself) will violate the law of the land and void any financial liability that the shipper has if your gun goes missing. Larger hubs (world ship center in FedEx) are better equipped to secure a firearm until it his the conveyor belts and gets whisked away. The employees have the right to ask 'what's in the box' and there is no point in hiding the truth; they can open the box if they need to and you allow that when you put it in their hands.

Bottom line; find the go-to gun shipping clerk in your area and be treat him well.
 
Research this before doing

I shipped my first handgun to an FFL last week. I first read up on the UPS, FedEx, and USPS websites. It was very clear what you could and couldn't do. Not that I liked it; it ended up costing me way more than anticipated to ship the item.

Also, a frame with serial number is a considered by the ATF to be a registered firearm. We all know this. Why insist otherwise?
 
PPGMD said:
Not according to the ATF.

If it's going back and forth for service there is nothing illegal. It's only for transfers that a FFL is required to get involved on the receiving end.

Sending a firearm for service certainly is a transfer and the firearm must be shipped to an FFL. The FFL at the receiving end must log the firearm into his bound book and log it out again when returning the firearm.

fletcher said:
Telling UPS that it's machine parts is nothing illegal

The ATF says it is (from http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b8):


Quote:
(B8) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier? [Back]

A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a) (3), 922(a)(5) and 922(e), 27 CFR 478.31 and 478.30]

BATF is wrong in this particular answer. Notification is only required when shipping to a nonlicensee. Both the law and the regulation require notification when shipping to other than a licensee.

I would not recommend not notifying the shipper unless you want to risk any possible insurance claims.
 
I went to a UPS Store in downtown San Francisco to ship a SA 1911 back to Springfield for work. I packed it well, but it did make a noise when shaken, because i did not put padding inside the blue case (which is roughly formed to the pistol).

The UPS woman offered to wrap it better, and went in the back. She told me her ex-husband was a hunter, and that she had shot pistols before. I think I was extremely lucky to have found her.
 
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