You use your gun for self defense...then what??

[Powderman]

First, remember that unless you live in a desert, there are ALWAYS witnesses.

Second, as soon as the thug makes their intention clear, get some distance between you and them. Distance is your friend. Now, DRAW YOUR WEAPON. Make it plain that if they do not leave RIGHT NOW, you will shoot. If they break their attack and flee, re-holster and call the police immediately.

If they do not break off their attack, then act in accordance with your State laws, and your conscience. Be prepared to support your actions in a court of law.

 

[TamThompson]

I have a small quibble with what the Wells Fargo handgun instructor said: I'm sure that it's not at all uncommon for the BG's surviving family members/significant other/beer joint buddies to sue for wrongful death.

I'd be curious to see some statistics on the probability of a maimed BG suing, versus the survivors of a killed BG suing.

 

[scottgun]

Vic, in my CCW class they stress 'shoot to stop', if you shoot to kill you won't see the perp in court, but chances are you will see yourself in criminal court and then see the BG's relelatives in civil court. That shot to 'finish him off' will get you life behind bars.

It's a matter of semantics, but never shoot to kill, only shoot to stop the threat, once the threat is stopped, stop shooting. Never tamper with evidence to make it appear that the BG was a greater threat that he actually was. With modern day balistics they will know where every shot came from, in what order and every other detail related to the shooting. Telling the judge that your instructor told you shoot to kill won't keep you out of jail either. Stay safe.

 

[Pain]

I was told the Same thing.... Shoot to Stop, But shooting to stop and shooting to Kill Both are " use of deadly force" There is a fine Line. Never admit you were shooting to Kill. Hitting the BG in the Toe, or chest is no Different as defined by Law in Tejas. But Shooting a BG once in the throat and the Boys in Blue show up and see the dude laying on the ground, Is alot more explainable than, Explaining the reason you emptied (in my case) 11 rnds into the dude. If you do end up emptying your firearm into the BG, You'de better be still Pulling the Trigger When the Cops arrive.....Later Pain®

 

[TamThompson]

Pain,
I've heard the opposite advice--empty your magazine because that's what people do when they're panicked. I talked to a guy who had to shoot a bear on a hiking trip in NY somewhere. He said "I shot that revolver 15 times!" I said, "Dude, revolvers only hold 6 or 8 shots, at most." He grinned, and said, "Yeah, but my dad says I pulled the trigger 15 times because I was scared to death. Just kept going 'click, click.'"

I've also heard you should shoot to stop the attack, that there is no more "shoot to kill", or the old "shoot him in the leg as a warning." The logic on the last one being that you're only allowed to use deadly force if you're in fear for your life, and if you deliberately aimed for a leg, you must've not been in fear for your life.

My CHL instructor even said that some folks who carry revolvers have gotten heat in court for taking the time to cock the hammer after drawing their gun--the logic being that if you have time to do that, you must not be in fear for your life.

He also put to rest the old "if you shoot 'em on the porch, drag 'em in the house so it's a legal shoot." His comment was "You've watched C.S.I. Don't you think even the most junior-level forensics technician can tell when a body's been DRAGGED?" He had a point. Don't even think of tampering with evidence.

My gun ain't coming out until I know I have to shoot, and if that happens, the BG's got about 1 second to change my mind while I'm drawing.

 

[Baba Louie]

Like scottgun, I've been brainwashed, er, conditioned, into believing the old "Shoot to Stop (lethal encounter) "Shoot to Live" (as in fearing for life) dogma.

Oh Yeah, that sounds about right. Semantics. Sheeesh.

...then what?? Keep your mouth shut and your ears and eyes open afterwards. Sit down.

...then what?? Must Speak to Attorney... must speak to attorney...
He or she is gonna be your new best buddy for a spell, help ya do your thinking and talking during the aftermath of one storm and probably into the next civil storm, as you pay for half his/her new Mercedes. And well deseerved it would be.

...then what?? Go fight to get your other guns outta lockup/evidence or whatever the local constables do to your other firearms and also go get another firearm like the one you used and consequently lost (in all likelihood you'll never see it again)...

Sounds like a lot of bother. I can see why so many people would rather just give the bad guy whatever he wants and be done with it, hoping for the best...

I would think that most people who have BTDT would describe a roller coaster ride of emotions they'd rather do without, but I could be wrong.

But I opine, that the proper answer to "You use your gun for self defense...then what??" is,
"To spread the word that, once again, good triumphs over evil"... after your legal affairs are in order of course, should you actually have to "shoot to stop" with effect.

Adios

 

[Loaded]

In a SHTF situation do you really think you are going to pause and take concern for the "after the fact" scenarios? Shoot to stop??? Not me. I'm going to kill the guy. If you shoot to stop, then you will be in court (and he will no coubt be sitting there with his neck brace on, his cane, his seeing eye dog, his dialysis machine, etc. for all the jury to see and feel sorry for while his lawyer says "He was abused as a child and his mother was a whore." Hm... Now who looks like the bad guy? YOU! Kill him if he is attempting to do harm to you and if his family takes you to court, so what. They weren't there, and they will look like money grubbing weasels.

Shoot to stop? Where ya gonna place that one bullet to stop him? His hand?

 

[scottgun]

Shoot to stop vs. shooting to kill -
there is no difference where you actually shoot the BG, always shoot COM or CNS to stop someone. Shooting to stop may result in killing the BG. Shooting someone after they are no longer a threat to kill them will land you in jail for a long time.

It's a matter of words, not actions. When the cops show up and you proudly tell the officer 'yep, I only shoot to kill', you will probably face murder charges. Telling the officer, 'I feared for my life and fired until the threat had stopped' (and then say nothing else, except to your attorney) will lay a groundwork for a justified self defense shooting.

It's not about shooting a BG and making sure that you are only stopping him and not killing him, that he's healthy and will recover fully. It's a matter of perception for the cops, judges and jury.

Shooting to stop sounds a lot better than shooting to kill. And anything that you say will be used against you.

 

[Valkman]

Vic, in the CCW class in Vegas they told us the opposite about killing the perp - that on average more money is awarded if you kill them. The BS part of this is WHO you shoot - if it's a guy with 10 convictions for robbery you might be ok but if it's the 17 year old neighbor kid with a mask on you will almost certainly pay. What a bunch of crap.

I also felt the same way about a guy 25 feet away with a knife demanding my wallet - screw that the gun is coming out! But in that same class they say that 5 years of litigation and 100k later you'll wish you just gave up the wallet. Makes me think about carrying a "fake wallet" to throw. Don't know where I'd carry it though!

I will say though that I think my situation is different from most - with the arthritis I have I'm already off of work and I won't be running from anyone. That option just won't be there so if they close on me I will shoot.

 

[Shaughn Leayme]

What we say in the moments after a stressful incident can come back and haunt us and set the tone of the investigation, so while we might be discussing semantics, wouldn't it be better to not have any statements that could color the investigation come up in the first place.

Remember that to a DA, you are just another case, not a person and if while reading thru the reports a statement like " I shot to kill" pops out at him, this might influence the decision to proceed, whereas the statement "I shot to stop him, because I was in fear for my life" gives the impression that you based your actions on a well thought out line of reasoning, and had attempted to difuse the situation and were left no other choice.

It's all about semantics and perception and failing to understand that, will not help you in a court of law.