10-Ring
Member
Depending on the situation, I would call the police.
You use your gun for self defense...then what??
- Thread starter TonyB
- Start date
- Status
Langenator
Member
Call the police, once you know you're safe. Security is always priority #1.
I was involved in an incident-"road rage" incident, not a robbery-where the BG did call the state troopers on me-mere minutes after my wife had dialed 911 from the passenger seat. (I had brandished my left mid-digit, which, in certain lighting conditions, apparently looks like a pistol; the woman who tried to merge her truck into my car brandished a Mini-Uzi. My Kahr never left the glove compartment, thanks to my wife.) I pulled off at a rest area to wait for the state troopers, and was "detained" briefly. The BG apparently never did stop.
If you're ever driving in the Vancouver, WA area and see a Ford pickup, WA lic A07580D, stay away from them.
I was involved in an incident-"road rage" incident, not a robbery-where the BG did call the state troopers on me-mere minutes after my wife had dialed 911 from the passenger seat. (I had brandished my left mid-digit, which, in certain lighting conditions, apparently looks like a pistol; the woman who tried to merge her truck into my car brandished a Mini-Uzi. My Kahr never left the glove compartment, thanks to my wife.) I pulled off at a rest area to wait for the state troopers, and was "detained" briefly. The BG apparently never did stop.
If you're ever driving in the Vancouver, WA area and see a Ford pickup, WA lic A07580D, stay away from them.
Langenator
Member
Call the police, once you know you're safe. Security is always priority #1.
I was involved in an incident-"road rage" incident, not a robbery-where the BG did call the state troopers on me-mere minutes after my wife had dialed 911 from the passenger seat. (I had brandished my left mid-digit, which, in certain lighting conditions, apparently looks like a pistol; the woman who tried to merge her truck into my car brandished a Mini-Uzi. My Kahr never left the glove compartment, thanks to my wife.) I pulled off at a rest area to wait for the state troopers, and was "detained" briefly. The BG apparently never did stop.
If you're ever driving in the Vancouver, WA area and see a Ford pickup, WA lic A07580D, stay away from them.
I was involved in an incident-"road rage" incident, not a robbery-where the BG did call the state troopers on me-mere minutes after my wife had dialed 911 from the passenger seat. (I had brandished my left mid-digit, which, in certain lighting conditions, apparently looks like a pistol; the woman who tried to merge her truck into my car brandished a Mini-Uzi. My Kahr never left the glove compartment, thanks to my wife.) I pulled off at a rest area to wait for the state troopers, and was "detained" briefly. The BG apparently never did stop.
If you're ever driving in the Vancouver, WA area and see a Ford pickup, WA lic A07580D, stay away from them.
Raz
Member
I suppose one of my biggest worries is being accosted by one or more weaponless individuals who intend to rob or otherwise do me harm. What would be the proper response if I had no recourse for retreat, and they forcibly tried to rob me? What if in my response to ward them off with my fists they discover a gun on my hip, and try to disarm me? Trying to grab your gun while your rolling around on the ground doesn't seem to be very strategically advantageous...
Even if I felt an extreme physical threat from someone unarmed, and I could not de-escalate the situation, there would be a lot of explaining to do if I ended up shooting them ... even if they had tried to take my weapon.
What do you all think about the risk of being disarmed by an unarmed assailant(s)?
-Raz
Even if I felt an extreme physical threat from someone unarmed, and I could not de-escalate the situation, there would be a lot of explaining to do if I ended up shooting them ... even if they had tried to take my weapon.
What do you all think about the risk of being disarmed by an unarmed assailant(s)?
-Raz
Random Thoughts
On witnesses:
1) There is always a witness.
2) A witness never sees what you saw, and never knows what you knew.
3) Some witnesses are friends of the perp. These will, amazingly, see what he saw and know what he knew.
On brandishing:
1) Pulling out a gun in the reasonable belief that you are in immediate and otherwise unavoidable risk of death or grave bodily harm is not 'brandishing.' It is self-defense. Yes, even if you don't have to fire the weapon.
On reporting the crime:
1) Cops are trained to look for victims and perpetrators. The first one to report gets to be treated as the victim. If you have to deal with the law, this is where you want to be.
2) If you think there's any chance that there was a witness to your actions, you should report the encounter to avoid needless complications like getting arrested.
3) If you are carrying the gun illegally, you have fewer legal options. It would be stupid to report the encounter if in doing so you have to report that you were deliberately violating the law of the land. Better hope there were no witnesses.
4) See the first comment under "on witnesses."
pax
Thou shalt honour the 11th commandment and keep it Wholly. -- 'Simon Jester' in Robert Heinlein's The Moon is a Harsh Mistress
On witnesses:
1) There is always a witness.
2) A witness never sees what you saw, and never knows what you knew.
3) Some witnesses are friends of the perp. These will, amazingly, see what he saw and know what he knew.
On brandishing:
1) Pulling out a gun in the reasonable belief that you are in immediate and otherwise unavoidable risk of death or grave bodily harm is not 'brandishing.' It is self-defense. Yes, even if you don't have to fire the weapon.
On reporting the crime:
1) Cops are trained to look for victims and perpetrators. The first one to report gets to be treated as the victim. If you have to deal with the law, this is where you want to be.
2) If you think there's any chance that there was a witness to your actions, you should report the encounter to avoid needless complications like getting arrested.
3) If you are carrying the gun illegally, you have fewer legal options. It would be stupid to report the encounter if in doing so you have to report that you were deliberately violating the law of the land. Better hope there were no witnesses.
4) See the first comment under "on witnesses."
pax
Thou shalt honour the 11th commandment and keep it Wholly. -- 'Simon Jester' in Robert Heinlein's The Moon is a Harsh Mistress
Raz,
You cannot legally pull your gun if you do not reasonably believe that you are in danger of death or of severe bodily injury. ("Severe bodily injury" means crippling or worse -- something long term. A broken arm isn't, a broken back is.)
In order to reasonably believe that you are at such risk from an unarmed assailant, "disparity of force" has to be present. That is, the assailant must be bigger, stronger, younger, more powerful, etc than you are. Or there must be more than one assailant. Or the assailant must be male and you female. Basically, anything that makes it a radically unfair fight and gives you the reasonable expectation that the assailant could kill you with his bare hands would meet the 'disparity of force' criteria.
As you said, you'd still have a much stickier legal problem if you shot an unarmed person than you would if he were armed. But as long as disparity of force is present and as long as you have a reasonable belief that your life is in immediate danger at the moment you pull the trigger, you should be okay.
pax
You cannot legally pull your gun if you do not reasonably believe that you are in danger of death or of severe bodily injury. ("Severe bodily injury" means crippling or worse -- something long term. A broken arm isn't, a broken back is.)
In order to reasonably believe that you are at such risk from an unarmed assailant, "disparity of force" has to be present. That is, the assailant must be bigger, stronger, younger, more powerful, etc than you are. Or there must be more than one assailant. Or the assailant must be male and you female. Basically, anything that makes it a radically unfair fight and gives you the reasonable expectation that the assailant could kill you with his bare hands would meet the 'disparity of force' criteria.
As you said, you'd still have a much stickier legal problem if you shot an unarmed person than you would if he were armed. But as long as disparity of force is present and as long as you have a reasonable belief that your life is in immediate danger at the moment you pull the trigger, you should be okay.
pax
Raz- First rule of a gun fight is bring a gun. I don't get into physical scuffles while I am packing. If someone tries to get physical, I will tell them to back off, next I will try to leave, if they follow and continue to attempt physical force, I will reply with force. Another good reason to carry pepper spray along with your CCW. No weapon displayed but the threat of physical harm, non-lethal pepper spray should take care of the problem. Stay SA, and don't let anyone get that close who might pose a threat.
I have fought off muggers (two ~16 year old kids, one displayed a gun on his waist) with only my loud commanding voice and a can of pepper spray. Any yes, I would without a doubt report such an incident to the police. They actually brought out a K-9 unit to try to track down the turds who tried to mug me, unfortunately with no luck. Judging by how fast those kids ran, they were miles away by the time the cops showed up.
I don't necessarily agree with 'you must shoot if you touch your gun'. A lot can happen in the 2 seconds it takes to draw and you will be responsible for the outcome. There are many instances where crimes are averted by a CCW holder presenting their weapon without firing.
Nick96
Member
Murphy's Law:
In the absence of knowledge, training or experience - a split second decision made in the heat of the moment will likely be the wrong one.
Accum's Razor:
When faced with a multitude of plausible variables, the correct solution is usually the simplest one.
A few more writs of common wisdom:
- The "authorities" are NOT your buddies
- It is the nature of all bureaucracies to seek to expand their sphere of control and influence - exclusive of the desire of those they were created to serve.
- Any dealings with the "government" WILL result in lost time & money
- You have rights, but they are not automatic - or often retained FREE OF CHARGE
- The entity most CONCERNED with your well being is YOU
- The entity most RESPONSIBLE for your personal safety is YOU
- Your peers are NOT stupid. You are better off being JUDGED by a jury of your peers than making a DEAL with bureaucrats.
I trust that 80% of the people involved in the law enforcement and judicial functions of government are fine, brave, moral and utterly dedicated servants of the public. Unfortunatally, many of my limited dealings have been with the other 20%. Just "luck of the draw" I suppose.
No bashing intended here - but consider that it's called the "Criminal Justice System" - not the "Victim Justice System". Right or wrong is open for debate - but that's the reality of the way the deck is stacked for MOST of us common citizens.
In the absence of knowledge, training or experience - a split second decision made in the heat of the moment will likely be the wrong one.
Accum's Razor:
When faced with a multitude of plausible variables, the correct solution is usually the simplest one.
A few more writs of common wisdom:
- The "authorities" are NOT your buddies
- It is the nature of all bureaucracies to seek to expand their sphere of control and influence - exclusive of the desire of those they were created to serve.
- Any dealings with the "government" WILL result in lost time & money
- You have rights, but they are not automatic - or often retained FREE OF CHARGE
- The entity most CONCERNED with your well being is YOU
- The entity most RESPONSIBLE for your personal safety is YOU
- Your peers are NOT stupid. You are better off being JUDGED by a jury of your peers than making a DEAL with bureaucrats.
I trust that 80% of the people involved in the law enforcement and judicial functions of government are fine, brave, moral and utterly dedicated servants of the public. Unfortunatally, many of my limited dealings have been with the other 20%. Just "luck of the draw" I suppose.
No bashing intended here - but consider that it's called the "Criminal Justice System" - not the "Victim Justice System". Right or wrong is open for debate - but that's the reality of the way the deck is stacked for MOST of us common citizens.
Last edited:
TamThompson
Member
Baba,
My CHL instructor said something very similar. He said he carries $40, in the form of one twenty and twenty one's, inside a heavy, cheap Mexican money clip. If they try to rob him, he gets it out (the 20 is on the outside, so it looks like a lot of money, and the clip adds some flash and some weight), and THROWS it as far as he can. This gets the BG to retreat to go after it.
He also said that he then watches closely, and if the BG turns around and looks back at him after picking up the money, he sees CHL-instructor with his arm still outstretched, thus revealing his shoulder holster gun.
He added that if BG looks back, CHL-instructor DRAWS.
A nice system.
My CHL instructor said something very similar. He said he carries $40, in the form of one twenty and twenty one's, inside a heavy, cheap Mexican money clip. If they try to rob him, he gets it out (the 20 is on the outside, so it looks like a lot of money, and the clip adds some flash and some weight), and THROWS it as far as he can. This gets the BG to retreat to go after it.
He also said that he then watches closely, and if the BG turns around and looks back at him after picking up the money, he sees CHL-instructor with his arm still outstretched, thus revealing his shoulder holster gun.
He added that if BG looks back, CHL-instructor DRAWS.
A nice system.
Pain
Member
couple 'O questions/ remarks.
First Scottgun:
Before obtaining my CHL here in Tejas, A buddy of mine who has his CHL carried Pepperspray as well as his Pistol. I asked him Why. He told me That it would be alot easier to Explain yourself and show justification in a shooting if you Maced the BG first, and he did'nt stop, so you shot him. This is due to the fear you felt after maceing him and he kept coming. Plus it is alot easier to explain pepperspraying someone if you misjudged someones action, than it is explaining shooting someone. It made sense. However since I have obtained My CHL I see it a little differently. If I have time to think about maceing someone first...... Then this leaves holes in the Justification of a shooting, due to the fact that is shows one has the mental facilities and is'nt truly in fear of his life, if he Nukes the Perp First. This could go either way, But It is my interpretation that If I'm being threatened with Bodily harm or possibly death and I truly reasonably believe so, than it is My right to defend myself with whatever force nessecary. So In my opinion it is absurd to Risk Blasting a BG with mace, who's holding a knife or Gun threatening your Life it's a waste of precious time that Might cost you yours. If he's Close Enough to Mace than he's already too close If I'm in Fear. Am I Crazy in these thoughts?????
One More:
Someone stated throwing the Money or whatever the BG wants as far away to get the BG to retreat after it. This sounds like a good way to get them Ticked at you and possibly get you killed for doing so. If Im being robbed at gunpoint or knifepoint, I'm not reaching for My wallet I'm drawing my firearm. I don't care if they really meant to use it against me or not. I have to assume they do And I have to assume they won't just walk away after they rob me.
It was also stated that If the perp retreated to get the object thrown, and he looked back he would see one drawing their weapon. Even though you were getting robbed In Texas ( as hypothetical as it may be) could get you arrested too. Because you are only allowed to "draw" your firearm when and if you are justified in the use of deadly force. I could be wrong, correct me If I am, but you If the BG has run over to retreive the Item, and is somewhat of a distance away and not immediately threatening your person. You would not be Justified in the use or show of deadly force.
First Scottgun:
Before obtaining my CHL here in Tejas, A buddy of mine who has his CHL carried Pepperspray as well as his Pistol. I asked him Why. He told me That it would be alot easier to Explain yourself and show justification in a shooting if you Maced the BG first, and he did'nt stop, so you shot him. This is due to the fear you felt after maceing him and he kept coming. Plus it is alot easier to explain pepperspraying someone if you misjudged someones action, than it is explaining shooting someone. It made sense. However since I have obtained My CHL I see it a little differently. If I have time to think about maceing someone first...... Then this leaves holes in the Justification of a shooting, due to the fact that is shows one has the mental facilities and is'nt truly in fear of his life, if he Nukes the Perp First. This could go either way, But It is my interpretation that If I'm being threatened with Bodily harm or possibly death and I truly reasonably believe so, than it is My right to defend myself with whatever force nessecary. So In my opinion it is absurd to Risk Blasting a BG with mace, who's holding a knife or Gun threatening your Life it's a waste of precious time that Might cost you yours. If he's Close Enough to Mace than he's already too close If I'm in Fear. Am I Crazy in these thoughts?????
One More:
Someone stated throwing the Money or whatever the BG wants as far away to get the BG to retreat after it. This sounds like a good way to get them Ticked at you and possibly get you killed for doing so. If Im being robbed at gunpoint or knifepoint, I'm not reaching for My wallet I'm drawing my firearm. I don't care if they really meant to use it against me or not. I have to assume they do And I have to assume they won't just walk away after they rob me.
It was also stated that If the perp retreated to get the object thrown, and he looked back he would see one drawing their weapon. Even though you were getting robbed In Texas ( as hypothetical as it may be) could get you arrested too. Because you are only allowed to "draw" your firearm when and if you are justified in the use of deadly force. I could be wrong, correct me If I am, but you If the BG has run over to retreive the Item, and is somewhat of a distance away and not immediately threatening your person. You would not be Justified in the use or show of deadly force.
Sunray
Member
Just showing a gun is no deterent. You have to be ready and able to use it. If you feel threatened, you should be drawing your pistol, not flashing it.
Pain, Good point, however the important distinction is between physical force and deadly force. If someone is threatening you with bodily harm, no weapon, just fists, you would be on shaky ground responding with a handgun. A single unarmed man could pose deadly force, but shooting an unarmed man would be trouble, IMO. The point of carrying pepper spray is to have a varying level of defense. A lot of punks will give someone crap to see how far they can push them, ready to go the distance but not really wanting to get in deep. Being able to respond with pepper spray is a good compromise where you are threatened but deadly force is not quite justified. Examples would include, a bum aggressively begging for change in my face and touches me, a road rager walking up to your vehicle unarmed yet screaming and pounding on your door, or a drunk guy coming out of the bar who thought you looked at his woman, and now wants a piece of you. I don't want to shoot anyone, and if I can defend myself with less than lethal force, I'll do so.
"So In my opinion it is absurd to Risk Blasting a BG with mace, who's holding a knife or Gun threatening your Life it's a waste of precious time that Might cost you yours."
If the BG has a knife or gun, you are right, all bets are off, skip pepper spray, go directly to CCW and respond with lethal force. I never meant to say always use pepper spray first. I like having the option, but every situation is different.
p.s. the mugging incident I spoke of in my above post was while I was living in unarmed NYS, and a can of pepper spray was my only defense at the time.
"So In my opinion it is absurd to Risk Blasting a BG with mace, who's holding a knife or Gun threatening your Life it's a waste of precious time that Might cost you yours."
If the BG has a knife or gun, you are right, all bets are off, skip pepper spray, go directly to CCW and respond with lethal force. I never meant to say always use pepper spray first. I like having the option, but every situation is different.
p.s. the mugging incident I spoke of in my above post was while I was living in unarmed NYS, and a can of pepper spray was my only defense at the time.
You use your gun for self defense...then what??
Ok,You're approched by a bad guy, who says"Gimme your money"....he has a knife.......you have a gun,and you politly show it to him.He turns and runs(not all bad guys are dumb)......now what???Do you call the cops,and make a report(being that you brandished)or do you high tail it out of there(no harm no foul)????
First of all, you were approached by a low life who wanted your money. You had no idea if after he got your money that he would decide to turn you into confetti. Then you politely show him your gun? Have you not practiced drawing and taking a shooting stance? Had you drawn and told him to FREEZE!, I doubt he would have shown you that he excelled in Track and Field during his 5 month stint in high school. He probably would have needed a clean pair of britches. That is when you call 911 and report your situation. Hold him at bay until the blue guys show up. Give an oral and written report and the bad guy gets to spend the next few weeks in Hotel Cell.
Same scenario as I just mentioned except this time he actually lunges at you. Simple - You've already drawn your weapon and are in a good defensive stance and the next thing you know he's wearing a toga and is sportin' one of those fancy toe tags.
Ok,You're approched by a bad guy, who says"Gimme your money"....he has a knife.......you have a gun,and you politly show it to him.He turns and runs(not all bad guys are dumb)......now what???Do you call the cops,and make a report(being that you brandished)or do you high tail it out of there(no harm no foul)????
First of all, you were approached by a low life who wanted your money. You had no idea if after he got your money that he would decide to turn you into confetti. Then you politely show him your gun? Have you not practiced drawing and taking a shooting stance? Had you drawn and told him to FREEZE!, I doubt he would have shown you that he excelled in Track and Field during his 5 month stint in high school. He probably would have needed a clean pair of britches. That is when you call 911 and report your situation. Hold him at bay until the blue guys show up. Give an oral and written report and the bad guy gets to spend the next few weeks in Hotel Cell.
Same scenario as I just mentioned except this time he actually lunges at you. Simple - You've already drawn your weapon and are in a good defensive stance and the next thing you know he's wearing a toga and is sportin' one of those fancy toe tags.
TonyB
Member
Yeah,I'm not suggesting that I'd just flash my gun....I'd draw and be prepared to kill the SOB.........I was just saying what if he takes off instead of lunging at you or resisting.....shooting someone as he flees is not in my definition of self defense.....if you stand there w/ the knife however,I believe you're trying to kill me............and you lose.......I practice drawing and keeping my finger OFF the trigger until I shoot,and in that split second if he runs,I was just asking what you'd do after.....call the cops or not???
I guess it would have todo w/ the circumstances as they happen..
I guess it would have todo w/ the circumstances as they happen..
Tamara
Senior Member
Loaded,
Apparently all three individuals I've thrown down on had lettered on the varsity track team.
Apparently all three individuals I've thrown down on had lettered on the varsity track team.
Pain
Member
Scott I appreciate Your Reply, Hope you did'nt think I was trying to Flame Your Post ........Pain
TallPine
Member
With all due respect, pax ...
how the heck am I supposed to know that someone only intends to break my arm ....
Pain
>>>>Someone stated throwing the Money or whatever the BG wants as far away to get the BG to retreat after it. This sounds like a good way to get them Ticked at you and possibly get you killed for doing so. If Im being robbed at gunpoint or knifepoint, I'm not reaching for My wallet I'm drawing my firearm. I don't care if they really meant to use it against me or not. I have to assume they do And I have to assume they won't just walk away after they rob me.
It was also stated that If the perp retreated to get the object thrown, and he looked back he would see one drawing their weapon. Even though you were getting robbed In Texas ( as hypothetical as it may be) could get you arrested too. Because you are only allowed to "draw" your firearm when and if you are justified in the use of deadly force. I could be wrong, correct me If I am, but you If the BG has run over to retreive the Item, and is somewhat of a distance away and not immediately threatening your person. You would not be Justified in the use or show of deadly force.<<<<
It called "seizing the initiative" and it is a proven tactic for people that wish to stay alive. The object is to get the BG to change his attention from you to the money. This gives you an instant to make your draw while he is focused on retreaving the money. My take is to throw it just a few yards away though, not half a mile
Regards,
Happyguy
>>>>Someone stated throwing the Money or whatever the BG wants as far away to get the BG to retreat after it. This sounds like a good way to get them Ticked at you and possibly get you killed for doing so. If Im being robbed at gunpoint or knifepoint, I'm not reaching for My wallet I'm drawing my firearm. I don't care if they really meant to use it against me or not. I have to assume they do And I have to assume they won't just walk away after they rob me.
It was also stated that If the perp retreated to get the object thrown, and he looked back he would see one drawing their weapon. Even though you were getting robbed In Texas ( as hypothetical as it may be) could get you arrested too. Because you are only allowed to "draw" your firearm when and if you are justified in the use of deadly force. I could be wrong, correct me If I am, but you If the BG has run over to retreive the Item, and is somewhat of a distance away and not immediately threatening your person. You would not be Justified in the use or show of deadly force.<<<<
It called "seizing the initiative" and it is a proven tactic for people that wish to stay alive. The object is to get the BG to change his attention from you to the money. This gives you an instant to make your draw while he is focused on retreaving the money. My take is to throw it just a few yards away though, not half a mile
Regards,
Happyguy
Pain
Member
Is it not just a feesable to Draw while the BG thinks I'm Going For my wallet. I think I feel more comfortable with that than I do throwing my wallet, The dude shoots me, then goes after the loot. If it's gold he wants it's gold he'll get Gold-Dots.
Tallpine,
You don't have to know that he's 'only' going to break your arm, you just have to be able to explain why you reasonably fear that he'll do more than that.
What I'm getting at is that if you can't explain exactly what you feared and why, the courts will probably find that your fear wasn't reasonable -- and thus, that pulling your gun wasn't reasonable either. But if you can articulate a reasonable belief that the assailant would do more than break your arm, you'll be fine.
Hope that makes sense.
pax
The key words to remember are "reasonably believe." You have to reasonably believe that you are at risk of severe bodily injury or death.how the heck am I supposed to know that someone only intends to break my arm ....
You don't have to know that he's 'only' going to break your arm, you just have to be able to explain why you reasonably fear that he'll do more than that.
What I'm getting at is that if you can't explain exactly what you feared and why, the courts will probably find that your fear wasn't reasonable -- and thus, that pulling your gun wasn't reasonable either. But if you can articulate a reasonable belief that the assailant would do more than break your arm, you'll be fine.
Hope that makes sense.
pax
Edward429451
member
Creative articulation!
Ever notice how many skinney guys are in the dojo's? Jackie Chan is skinny and could break your neck easily.
"Officer, he struck a stance of a martial artist giving me the reasonable belief that he was going to break my neck or back."
Ever notice how many skinney guys are in the dojo's? Jackie Chan is skinny and could break your neck easily.
"Officer, he struck a stance of a martial artist giving me the reasonable belief that he was going to break my neck or back."
Pain
The idea is to split your enemy's attention and give him as much to focus on as possible. Even if all he does is divert his eyes for a moment, that could be the difference between getting shot or not.
All he has to do is pull the trigger. You've got to make a draw first.
Besides, if he gets mad and shoots you, just shoot him back!
Regards,
Happyguy
The idea is to split your enemy's attention and give him as much to focus on as possible. Even if all he does is divert his eyes for a moment, that could be the difference between getting shot or not.
All he has to do is pull the trigger. You've got to make a draw first.
Besides, if he gets mad and shoots you, just shoot him back!
Regards,
Happyguy
Pain
Member
LOL, No doubt In my experience, Most BG's carry Cheap Pawn shop .25 Raven arm type pistols. Unless he's got it Shoved in my gut he ain't gonna hit me anyway!!! Take Care !! Pain®
Nero Steptoe
member
- Joined
- Dec 30, 2002
- Messages
- 461
First mistake was not shooting the sorry s.o.b. before he had a chance to turn and run. Now that you've made that mistake, you might as well report the incident. Presenting a weapon in a genuine case of self-defense is not "brandishing".
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
