If you poke a hole in an animal's lung, it will die.
Yes, that is usually true. But it takes time for a critter to drown in its own blood. And in the time it takes to drown, a large, angry animal with teeth, claws and nothing to lose is certainly capable of destroying the unfortunate soul which made it so angry.If you poke a hole in an animal's lung, it will die.
True.. It might also take you with 'em. Plenty of cases where both the critter and the person mauled died.If you poke a hole in an animal's lung, it will die.
Well it turns out they said their cousin's friend... Post #15.That's probably part the disconnect. I didn't see (and still can't find) anyone on this thread who posted that they had killed a bear by shooting it through the eye or who posted that they knew of someone who had killed a bear by shooting it through the eye.
What I did see is a discussion about whether shooting a bear in the eye is a viable method of reliably stopping an attacking/charging bear that's coming at the shooter.
Agree, the story is suspect. Sounds more like a story told by some guy my friends cousin knows. It is very unlikely that you would be able to get 6 shots off on a charging bear and if you did, get all of them in the head and then not hit an open eye socket or directly into the nose or mouth. Really???
First of all, they did not say their cousin's friend did anything.Well it turns out they said their cousin's friend... Post #15.
Palpable irony.So disconnect happens.
I am paraphrasing my thoughts as expressed on another forum. OC spray is like any less lethal use of force, whether one is dealing with bears or people. When faced with a lethal threat, the initial piece of equipment to grab is one that delivers lethal force. Less lethal then gets deployed if circumstances allow it to be deployed, but a lethal alternative always should be available and immediately ready to use in case the less lethal alternative fails. A grizzly bear is more dangerous than a very strong human armed with a knife in each hand. A person who can’t deploy a firearm in a panic is not going to deploy OC spray any more efficiently, and deploying it at ground fight stage is going to be rougher and more incapacitating to the human than using the firearm. How many presentations does an OC carrier practice in a given year, using the gear in its usual carry position, and getting it all lined up for firing with the fingers in the appropriate places? How many are sub two seconds?Seriously, all of this conjecture and hair splitting and not one mention of the facts and data of the actually studies on the subject?
How many of you practice "Hitting a target the size of a baseball, especially when the target’s coming at you at 30 miles an hour and swaying side to side"...
Because that is exactly how it's described by bear biologist and bear attack expert Dr. Herrero. Oh, and you have to do in under 2 seconds while the bear is covering 44 feet per second.
And if that wasn't a tall enough order to accomplish, without fine-motor skills, because a 900lb behemoth is rushing towards you there's this...
“firearm bearers suffered the same injury rates in close encounters with bears whether they used their firearms or not,”
http://www.polarbearsinternational.org/sites/default/files/efficacy_of_firearms_for_bear_deterrence_in_alaska_2014_01_29_15_23_07_utc.pdf
“A bear attack is a surprise encounter,” Smith says. “Most charges start from only a few yards away. A hunter with his rifle slung is nothing more than a hiker with a stick of steel on his back.”
That quote is from Dr. Tom Smith, a professor and research wildlife biologist who analyzed 600 Alaskan bear- human encounters from 1985 to 2006. From the same study- “The reason guns are less effective than bear spray is the difficulty of making an accurate shot during a split second chase. Smith’s data shows it take an average of four hits to stop a bear.
Show me who commissioned the study, X-rap...Those who commission studies on sprays have no less an agenda than any others. I bet OC spray studies are heavily funded by the NPS and other governmental agencies who would rather not have to deal with guns in their sandbox.
I carry bear spray grudgingly in jurisdictions that won't allow my guns. It's surprising how many don't even allow the spray.
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Plan and simply. Bear spray give you the best statical odds of escaping a bear attack unscathed. This is the opinion of bear attack experts, based on their case studies of actually events. Not theory. The link above speaks for itself.I am paraphrasing my thoughts as expressed on another forum. OC spray is like any less lethal use of force, whether one is dealing with bears or people. When faced with a lethal threat, the initial piece of equipment to grab is one that delivers lethal force. Less lethal then gets deployed if circumstances allow it to be deployed, but a lethal alternative always should be available and immediately ready to use in case the less lethal alternative fails. A grizzly bear is more dangerous than a very strong human armed with a knife in each hand. A person who can’t deploy a firearm in a panic is not going to deploy OC spray any more efficiently, and deploying it at ground fight stage is going to be rougher and more incapacitating to the human than using the firearm. How many presentations does an OC carrier practice in a given year, using the gear in its usual carry position, and getting it all lined up for firing with the fingers in the appropriate places? How many are sub two seconds?
Althought skeptical of using OC as the default option, I am prepared to be convinced otherwise. But, I do thousands of presentations a year with my firearm, and run a few thousand rounds through it, and I use a round in the woods that has been proven to work. I also don’t have to worry about the wind direction, which is a 24/7/365 issue where I hang.
Of course. Nothing is a panacea. And no offense, but what you believe doesn't really matter. You can convince yourself that those groups funded the study, but it isn't the truth.I said I believed, I have seen enough NPS, USFS demonstrations to know what their view is. A claim was made earlier in this thread that an article was biased toward a certain gun or caliber and I won't dispute that but as has been pointed out, spray has limitations and they should be acknowledged if that is offered as an alternative to a proper firearm.
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Plan and simply. Bear spray give you the best statical odds of escaping a bear attack unscathed. This is the opinion of bear attack experts, based on their case studies of actually events. Not theory. The link above speaks for itself.
A 1990s U.S. Interagency Grizzly Bear Study Team analysis determined that people who defended themselves with guns suffered a 50% injury rate, but with bear spray avoided injury most of the time.
A 2008 "Efficacy of Bear Deterrent Spray in Alaska" study stated:
"Red pepper spray stopped bears’ undesirable behavior 92% of the time when used on brown bears, 90% for black bears, and 100% for polar bears.
Of all persons carrying sprays, 98% were uninjured by bears in close-range encounters.
All bear-inflicted injuries (n = 3) associated with defensive spraying involved brown bears and were relatively minor (i.e., no hospitalization required).
In 7% (5 of 71) of bear spray incidents, wind was reported to have interfered with spray accuracy, although it reached the bear in all cases.
In 14% (10 of 71) of bear spray incidents, users reported the spray having had negative side effects upon themselves, ranging from minor irritation (11%, 8 of 71) to near incapacitation (3%, 2 of 71).
Bear spray represents an effective alternative to lethal force and should be considered as an option for personal safety for those recreating and working in bear country."
Why not just carry both? I do...
I'm not doing your homework for you, Deaf. Read the studies for yourself.How many were charging and how many were just a nuance or bluff charging? There IS a difference. And with a gun you can only use it if they are attacking. No shooting nuance bears.
Which one will you use in a hurry, gun or spray? You won't have but a few seconds to decide.
Deaf
A person who can’t deploy a firearm in a panic is not going to deploy OC spray any more efficiently, and deploying it at ground fight stage is going to be rougher and more incapacitating to the human than using the firearm. How many presentations does an OC carrier practice in a given year, using the gear in its usual carry position, and getting it all lined up for firing with the fingers in the appropriate places? How many are sub two seconds?
I've seen this first hand. The rounds glance off the skull and don't do any real damage.