Your Grandchildren Will have it Worse . . .

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More guts than I!

I came across this and thought about starting a thread with it but didn't have the guts. Your're a better human being than I am.

It is also depressing because it is true.
 
Its sad that this thread crashed through the first page of L&P with only just over 200 views. We MUST break party lines if we are ever going to be a free people once again. But I guess that says it all. :(
 
"Your Grandchildren Will have it Worse . . . "

Not a very precise title, it's no wonder it didn't attract much attention. I only clicked on it to see what variation of "The gun grabbers are coming to get us and they're going to win" it would be.

"You will never get government permission to entertain your mind and body in unapproved ways." Most folks don't ask. And so it goes.

John
 
Problem is, folks with our sorts of views rarely get into politics at any level. If you're not involved with city council affairs, for instance, you have no say--or not enough tonotice--in the passing of ordinances that restrict the populace from once-legal activities.

I grew up with the requirements that one obtain a building permit for construction in Austintatious. Out in the county? Not needed. I was amazed upon finding that in rural Georgia, you can't build doodly-squat without some bureaucrat's blessing.

From the perspective of near-70, there are fewer freedoms today than in my own younger years.

Heck, I once was free to decide what features I didn't want to pay for, on a car or lawnmower!

I once was free to bicycle off to Grampaw's farm with my .22 rifle without being hassled, or take my BB gun down to Shoal Creek in Austin and shoot it.

I once was free to have a firearm delivered to my door by the USPS, bought from somebody in another state.

My grandmother was free to buy strychnine paste, over the counter at the drugstore, to use to kill small predators around the barns and chicken house.

Oh, well.

I don't know if they hate us because of our freedom, but they must have some reason to call us the Great Satan. They decry our entertainment culture, which is something we're free to enjoy. Our women are free to bare their faces. All of us are free to discuss religious beliefs and disagree with our elders as we see fit.

So, yeah, we're regularly losing bits of freedom. We still, overall, have more liberty than do many other countries. Certainly, far more than any Islamic country.

Art
 
Full article for the link-impaired

'They Hate Us Because of Our Freedom'

by Alfred A. Hambidge, Jr.

Whenever I hear “they hate us because of our freedom†or "because they hate our way of life" or some other such drivel, I don’t know whether to laugh or cry. If real people didn’t suffer the consequences of it, such ignorance would be amusing. But another annoying thing about statements like these is that they perpetuate the myth that we live in a land of freedom. The sad fact is, we are not free, and haven't been for a long, long time.

In They Thought they Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45, Milton Mayer wrote about how the German people kept believing they were still free while the Nazis were tightening their control and extending their power over every facet of life. At first people refused to see the obvious, because the infringements on their freedom were coming in small steps. Each of those small steps, on its own, seemed to be no big deal, nothing to rebel against. But by the time you could no longer ignore the big picture, it was too late. “Suddenly it all comes down, all at once. You see what you are, what you have done, or, more accurately, what you haven't done (for that was all that was required of most of us: that we do nothing) . . . You remember everything now, and your heart breaks. Too late. You are compromised beyond repair.†Remember, all the people had to do for all that to happen was--nothing. The same phenomenon is happening right here, right now, in the U.S. of A. It had been proceeding at a slower rate than 70 years ago in Germany , but now the pace quickens.

I know there are some who will say, “Wait a minute, fella. You’re going too far. The U.S. of A. is still a free country.†O.K., then. If you’re free, you should have no trouble doing something that people have done for time immemorial. Buy a cow, shelter and feed and care for it, milk it, and sell the milk. Go ahead, try it and see what happens. Come back and let us know how free you are to do such a simple thing, which has been done since the dawn of civilization.

Freedom is a state of being where an individual does not have to get permission in order to do something that harms no one else’s person or property. How many things can you do without getting some form of government permission? Can you build your house on your own property without obtaining government approval? Can you put a new room on your house? Or a new porch? Put in a new toilet? Or even put a shed in your backyard? If you are not free to make your home on your own property, you are not free.

Once you have that home, can you refuse to sell it to the government if they want to use your land for some other purpose? Can you make them go away simply by telling them, “I will not sell you my property, at any price!†If you are not free to choose if, when, how, to whom, and for how much you will sell your property, you are not free.

Can you drive a motor vehicle across this “free†country without someone in government approving of you as a driver? Or without getting government permission to use that vehicle on the roads? If you are not free to travel without permission, you are not free.

Can you buy a pistol without government permission? Can you drive across the country with it on your person, even if you have permission to drive a properly permitted vehicle? There’s a man, a good man from what I’ve heard, who got in trouble in Ohio for doing just that. And I’ll bet there are many more good people that I haven’t heard of who wound up in similar trouble. Let’s remind them how free they are. Could anyone even ride a horse cross-country, with an old Winchester rifle in a scabbard, without being hassled? If you are not free to have a firearm at hand for self-defense, no matter where you go, you are not free.

Are you free to say to the government, “I don’t like your retirement plan; therefore, I will no longer pay for it?†Can you, without penalty, tell the government that you will no longer pay for subsidies, for regulations, for wars, for empire, or for any activities that you disapprove? If you are not free to refuse to pay for things that you do not want, you are not free.

If the government decides it needs more troops to build and maintain its empire, can you refuse to go if it calls for you? Will they leave you alone if you tell them you won’t kill and die for them? Can you simply ignore the draft, without consequence? Can you refuse to be a conscripted slave? If you are not free to tell the government “Hell no, I won’t go!†you are not free.

Can you open a business, like a simple barbershop, without government permission? Or how about a bakery? A diner? A hot dog stand? A gun shop? It’s been said that before we invaded Iraq , there were more gun shops in Baghdad than in Washington D.C. Can you wire or plumb or fix TVs or cars without a government license? If you’re not free to make a living without getting permission, you are not free.

And once you have government approval to open a restaurant or bar, are you free to decide what people may do within your business? Can you choose whether or not they may smoke on the premises? Are you free to invite them to light up and enjoy a cigarette, a cigar, or a pipe with their drink, or after their meal? If you are not free to decide what people may or may not do on your property or within your business, you are not free.

Are you free to smoke a joint? Are you free to hire someone to help you satisfy a physical urge? You can do both in the same afternoon in Amsterdam . I haven’t heard of anybody attacking the Dutch because of their freedom. If you are not free to entertain your mind and body in any way that does not harm another, with anyone who is willing, you are not free.

Can you undergo any medical treatment you think is in your best interest? Can you use whatever drug you deem appropriate for your condition? Can you even get some marijuana to help you avoid nausea so you can keep your meds from coming back up? Can you get it just to feel a little better for a little while? If you are not free to pursue any treatment or use any substance you think might help you obtain, regain, or retain your health, you are not free.

Are you able to criticize political candidates by name? A week before the next election or primary, place a newspaper or TV or magazine or radio ad criticizing a candidate. Let us know how you fare. The Supreme Court says it’s okay to make that a crime. If you are not free to talk about politicians at any time, at any place, by any means, in any form, you are not free.

Can you take your children out of a government or conventional private school setting, without explaining to some bureaucrat how you plan to educate them? Can you homeschool them without getting government approval of your lesson plans? Can you tell everyone to buzz off, that it’s none of their business how or if you educate your kids? If you are not free to teach your children what you want, where you want, when you want, and how you want, you are not free.

So, let’s reiterate. You need government permission to make your home, travel, earn a living, defend yourself, obtain medical treatment, and educate your children. You will never get government approval for many of those things in many places. You will never get government permission to entertain your mind and body in unapproved ways. At certain times, you cannot criticize those who decide who and what gets approved. You must sell your property to the government if they want it, and you must kill and die for them if they tell you to. And you have no choice but to pay for it all anyway, whether you like it or not.

And still, we think we are free.
 
I think there is a chicken/egg relationship with this freedom stuff. Once upon a time we were a free people who took responsibility for our actions. We didn't expect lawsuits to "make us whole" when we screwed up in buying a house with substandard room addition or screwed up on a stock investment. Ten year old Art Eatman was probably quite safe and responsible pedalling down to the dump to blast rats and tin cans. The parents of today's 10 year old are suing everyone in sight because their kid found a way to hurt himself at a state of the art padded playground. When I was ten we even climbed up high in trees. Think of the responsibility of the landowner if we fell! Since the late '50's or early '60's it has been the social more that you are not personally at fault. Think seatbelt and helmet laws. As a group we have eaten this up and demanded more. At this point, are we responsible enough to deserve freedom? Laws are geared up to protect the lowest common denominator and that seems to be achieving new lows all the time. Think about the warning on Ruger pistol barrels. Caution , this is a gun. Bullets come out this end.
 
Cal4D4 said:

At this point, are we responsible enough to deserve freedom?
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I would take it one step further: Do the American People even want freedom? If the people don’t genuinely want freedom, the government will certainly "oblige."

During our War of Independence, our Founding Fathers believed liberty burns in the hearts of men and that, throughout the ages, bad governments and despots have abrogated this right. So after the war they founded the first country based on individual freedom and liberty.

The important thing to note here is that our Founding Fathers assumed people have a natural desire to be free.

But do people really want to be free? That’s my question.

I have a rather controversial and depressing theory on this:

Our Founding Fathers were wrong. Deep down, most people do not want to be free. This explains why people have been slaves and indentured servants throughout history – it wasn’t so much due to “bad governments and despots†as the people themselves wanting to be slaves.

The only man who makes slavery possible is the slave. – John W. Campbell, Jr.

Most people want to be slaves. For proof, just look around you. It’s a fact most people want to be dependent on government. After all, over half the population receives some kind of check from Uncle Sam. And take a look at Europe, where almost all countries are socialistic. The trend charts only predict more of this.

The sad fact is that slavery has been the norm throughout history because the natural tendency of man is to be a slave. Every social and anthropologic indicator, from both past and present, proves this out. An average, normal, middle-of-the-bell-curve person wants to be a slave, while an abnormal, fringe-element person wants liberty. The former describes the vast majority of the population (the “normal†people), while the latter describes you and me.

What happened between the years 1775 and 1791 was a fluke, in that this fringe element gained control of a country. Since 1791, our country has slowly and predictably returned to its natural state (i.e. slavery).

I hope - I pray - I am wrong. Because if I’m right, I predict ugly times ahead.
 
Do the American People even want freedom? If the people don’t genuinely want freedom, the government will certainly "oblige."

During our War of Independence, our Founding Fathers believed liberty burns in the hearts of men and that, throughout the ages, bad governments and despots have abrogated this right. So after the war they founded the first country based on individual freedom and liberty.

The important thing to note here is that our Founding Fathers assumed people have a natural desire to be free.

But do people really want to be free? That’s my question.

I have a rather controversial and depressing theory on this:

Our Founding Fathers were wrong. Deep down, most people do not want to be free. This explains why people have been slaves and indentured servants throughout history – it wasn’t so much due to “bad governments and despots†as the people themselves wanting to be slaves.

The only man who makes slavery possible is the slave. – John W. Campbell, Jr.

Most people want to be slaves. For proof, just look around you. It’s a fact most people want to be dependent on government. After all, over half the population receives some kind of check from Uncle Sam. And take a look at Europe, where almost all countries are socialistic. The trend charts only predict more of this.

The sad fact is that slavery has been the norm throughout history because the natural tendency of man is to be a slave. Every social and anthropologic indicator, from both past and present, proves this out. An average, normal, middle-of-the-bell-curve person wants to be a slave, while an abnormal, fringe-element person wants liberty. The former describes the vast majority of the population (the “normal†people), while the latter describes you and me.

What happened between the years 1775 and 1791 was a fluke, in that this fringe element gained control of a country. Since 1791, our country has slowly and predictably returned to its natural state (i.e. slavery).

I hope - I pray - I am wrong. Because if I’m right, I predict ugly times ahead.
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Wow...Im not sure what to say. :( Except that what you just shared rings true. Sadly.

I can only hope that people like us make a difference. Helping people to see that they are being enslaved. And moved enough to become active in the fight.
 
Unfortunately, Molon is right. One only needs to look at how few populations have embraced freedom and self-determination. Hell, only a sliver of the people on this planet even understand the concept, let alone strive for it in even the most minor way.

- Gabe
 
NIGHTWATCH said:

I can only hope that people like us make a difference. Helping people to see that they are being enslaved. And moved enough to become active in the fight.
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That’s commendable. Seriously. But what if it doesn’t work? What’s the backup plan?
 
GRD said:

Unfortunately, Molon is right. One only needs to look at how few populations have embraced freedom and self-determination. Hell, only a sliver of the people on this planet even understand the concept, let alone strive for it in even the most minor way.
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A lot of patriots (me included) have a annoying habit of always pointing a finger at the government when a freedom is infringed upon, thus implying it is the root source of our problems. Instead, we should be pointing a finger at our neighbors. And even ourselves on occasion…
 
A lot of patriots (me included) have a annoying habit of always pointing a finger at the government when a freedom is infringed upon, thus implying it is the root source of our problems. Instead, we should be pointing a finger at our neighbors. And even ourselves on occasion - Molon Labe
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Well maybe thats it. Realizing that WE are to blame and changing that pattern.

I dont believe that politics must be a game. If it is, it was created because those in power wish to stay in power and nurture our ignorance. I want to change.

Im getting into the habit of supporting those who I do not agree with. As long as their chosen lifestyle and liberty does not harm others. And see the government as a curbside hustler looking to manipulate the situation for a buck.

We need to learn to walk again when it comes to being free. Yes we are better off than many, but am I to leave it at that? I cant. :(
 
The founders were wrong about people?

Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.
Click to expand...


sound familiar? I hope so. :)

-K
 
I came across this and thought about starting a thread with it but didn't have the guts. Your're a better human being than I am.
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Hmmm, thats weird. I was also going to post something along the lines of how we are not a free country a few days ago, but I too wimped out.
 
I think one of the things that gets left out of this discussion is the impact of technology on society.
It doesn't take much skill or brains to ride a horse or drive a wagon. A little practice & wallah there you are & if you fall off or drive the wagon off the trail oh well. Cars & trucks are a little different. Especially when you see how many there are on the roads today. If you think about it thats why country folk are more independit & do stuff themselves. Where as in a large urban/city area you are much more dependit on the local goverment to make things work. Its kind of hard to not step on someones toes when you live in a big city.I mean I can stick my arm out the window &unload a full clip & noone is gonna care...try that in downtown Indy. I mean it just seems like the more dependit on technology we are the more interconnected we all are. Not that I necessarily like some of the BS we have to put up with.
 
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Molon Labe, that was one of the most thought provoking posts I've ever read.

Other than what Kaylee pointed out, you're very right -- those of us that love liberty are anything but the majority.

Wes
 
I was watching the "American Experience" the other night on PBS. The program was about the re-enacters of the American revolution. It was interesting to learn that over 50% of the people at that time did not want a revolution. About 25% was not sure and the other 25% was in favor. It was not until the revolution was in full swing that the majority of the rest went with it.

Maybe that is what it will take. When they come for our guns. The rest will be watching on the evening news with fearful facination and a growing realization that We are Them? Its a hopeful thought. :)
 
Let's not be too pessimistic. While it's true that most people want comfort, security, and, yes, predictability, it's also true that the impulse to change, adventure, and disobedience is every bit as real. Nature appears to have a need to invigorate itself, the better to adapt. Get used to being an "anomaly," to living on the margin. There are worse things than being a lonely mutant.
 
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