Your hearing and your carry gun/ammo.

[JohnKSa]

I've seen several people post that they wouldn't carry this or that caliber or ammuniton because if they ever had to fire it inside they're afraid of the damage it would do to their hearing.

Problems...

1. Dead people are deaf. Now I'm the last guy that will argue that bigger is always better, but although there are good reasons to drop down in power/caliber (shootability, recovery time are a couple) noise just isn't one of them. It will do you very little good to die with good hearing because you hamstrung yourself in the name of reducing noise pollution.

2. Even the mildest centerfire handgun cartridge will almost certainly cause damage your unprotected ears with just a single shot. It doesn't make sense to trade survivability for a little less hearing damage. If you could guarantee NO damage that MIGHT be a different story.

3. Hearing damage is a function of both loudness and amount of exposure. If you have to fire several rounds of your "quiet" ammunition, the damage to your hearing could equal or exceed the damage caused by one or two rounds of the "noisy" stuff you're worried about.

4. And MOST importantly, you can't control what your opponent carries. Mr. Murphy says that your opponent will be carrying the noisiest gun that he can bring along. Your efforts to pick a nice "quiet" gun will be wasted as soon as the BG touches off a round from his magnum. To make things worse, your gun (and therefore its muzzle blast) is directed away from you. Even if he misses, you'll get the full effect of his muzzle blast.

So go ahead a pick a gun you can shoot well. Pick the best ammo for the gun. Best means best balance of power, terminal performance and accuracy. And don't worry about your hearing in a self-defense scenario.

Chances are you'll never have to fire a shot without hearing protection. Even if you do, you'll be a lot happier pulling that trigger knowing that you have the best tool for the job than you would be pulling that trigger and wondering if you'll survive to enjoy the good hearing you might preserve if your opponent isn't carrying a magnum...

 

[Pylon]

well said dude. I agree totally.

 

[10-Ring]

I'm not too worried about hearing damage, more the quality of follow-up shots....
I'm hoping I'll never have to find out!

 

[Peetmoss]

In a life and death situation hearing is the last thing anyone should be thinking about.

 

[P95Carry]

Good assessment John .... often wondered about this but frankly ... in the 1:1,000,000 chance I will ever have to ''try this out'' ... I am hardly worried .... seein as my life would be on the line anyways ...

A degree of hearing impairment would seem a small price to pay ...... for still hearing at all!

My ammo needs to stop .... more than protect my ears!

 

[hnm201]

In a life and death situation hearing is the last thing anyone should be thinking about.

Well, maybe yes AND no? I mean, if you got to draw and shoot, you have to draw and shoot. But if you have an opportunity for cover, it's nice to be able to avail yourself of some hearing protection, even if it is mediocre, assuming that you have it available.

I'm amazed at the number of people who carry, non-LEOs and LEOs alike, who will rattle of a long list of the weapons of self-defense that they carry daily, that include knives, pepper spray and extra magazines but do not include *ear plugs*. I mean, if you have time to drop and insert a mag, you're in a tactical firefight situation, most likely, right? If so, would you have opporuntiy to plug those ear? Maybe, maybe not.

I recently sat down and made a list of the things that I would like to have on my person as I go about my day. It includes non-weapons as well as weapons. I was suprised at how long the list was and here it is:

weapons
1 automatic pistol, 9mm or 1 revolver, .38 special
1 extra magazine or two speed loaders for said pistol
1 BUG, .32 ACP
1 folding defensive knife

Non-weapon items:
- A Cell Phone
- Kleenex
- Chewing gum
- An energy bar - for when I get so busy I can't eat lunch and then become hypoglcemic
- A notebook and paper and pens
- A PDA
- $2 in change
- Slightly oversized wallet w/credit cards & check book & business cards

Ok, now this list looks long to me. Try carrying all of this in your pocket or on your belt and it just seems that it would be remarkably UNCOMFORTABLE for me. So here is what I've come up with.

- Pistol or revolver (KT P-11 or Taurus 85ch) in front right pocket or SmartCarry or on belt with cover garment
- Knife and BUG in rear pocket --- or in in front pocket if main gun is on belt or in smart carry.
- Everything else in a Man's Purse! ACCK! Yes, after debating this for years I am going to try carrying a Man Bag AKA man's clutch, aka purse! This is only way I think that I'll be able to fully and comfortably integrate daily carry into my lifestyle. Heck, I am a used book dealer and computer consultant, so people expect me to be eccentric. And if I carry a purse, I can add the following -

- A set of ear-plugs
- A flashlight (that might go in the pocket at night time)
- A can of pepper spray
- A pocket constitution
- A leatherman tool of some kind (I am not wearing that on my belt!)
- A sandwich.
- Condoms.

I'll let you know how it works out. The purse that I ordered should be here tomorrow.

 

[P95Carry]

so people expect me to be eccentric

hahaha! I seem to be followin you around but hey .... I want to qualify that for myself ..... ''people KNOW I am eccentric!!!

No question!

 

[Standing Wolf]

I'm already dealing with a ±70% hearing loss. A little more or less won't make much difference, or at least, not as much difference as a lost life.

 

[cool45auto]

I just got finished reading "Guns save Lives" by Robert A. Waters, good book by the way, and there are accounts of the loud "booms" the guns make during confrontations. They don't mention anything about ears ringing or hearing loss in the aftermath, though.

I've read where some people don't even hear the shots and have no hearing damage later. I wonder if any LEO's or such individuals could comment on this.

BTW: My hearing would'nt be real high on my list of things to worry about in a life or death situation where I had to use my gun.

 

[444]

This may or may not be applicable to a self defense situation, but I have been in situations more than a couple times where I was so engrossed in what I was doing that I had no recollection of the shot making any noise at all. This occured primarily when hunting. When firing a shot out of a centerfire rifle without any hearing protection, I don't ever remember hearing the sound of the shot or having my ears ring afterwards. Same with firing a handgun at game. During one of the carbine classes I took, the guy next to me was using an AR15 with a mini-y-comp muzzle brake. During a break, a number of other students began complaining about the noise and blast of his rifle. Since I was right next to him on the line I was kind of surprised that I never noticed it. Since they brought it to my attention I began to notice it, IF I finished firing my string before him. The blast was terrible. BUT, when I was firing, I didn't notice it at all. My guess is that my concentration was totally and completely focused on my sights and my target and it just didn't register with me at all.
I have also fired shots here and there without hearing protection out of all kinds of weapons including big bore handguns out of a car or out of a window of a house. Yeah they were loud and my ears were ringing, but my hearing is fine on my annual physical. I am not foolish enough to think this might not catch up to me eventually, but it certainly isn't significant enough for me to modify my choice of self defense firearms.

 

[hnm201]

Ear plugs also come in handy when you are trying to read in the coffee shop and the table of young college students nearby won't stop blabbering at a volume that is distracting.

 

[JohnKSa]

Auditory exclusion is common during self-defense shootings. It takes place in the brain, and offers no protection to the physical hearing apparatus which is the part of the hearing system which is damaged by noise.

I have a friend who shot a person in self-defense while indoors. Although she reports experiencing auditory exclusion, she still suffered hearing damage from the event. The attacker fired two missed shots from a .38, she returned fire with a single shot from a .357 mag killing the attacker.

As far as using hearing protection in a self-defense scenario. I do keep a pair of high-quality electronic muffs by the bed. IF time permits, and IF I think about it, I might don them AFTER grabbing my gun and glasses. They are of the type that actually enhances hearing (amplifies sound) and maintains a binaural hearing input which allows one to naturally locate sounds. I have them there only because I try to plan for all occasions. While I have grabbed my nightstand gun and eyeglasses on a couple of occasions for false alarms, I've never remembered to go for the muffs. That makes me doubt that I'd have them on if something really went down.

So,

1. Don't count on the fact that you don't "hear" or "notice" the muzzle blast while hunting/shooting to protect your hearing. The damage is happening.

2. You might as well provide yourself with some good electronic hearing protectors. In the event that time permits, they could not only protect your hearing but actually enhance your hearing abilities during an encounter. Having them on hand won't hurt anything if you check the batteries regularly, but I doubt many people will have the presence of mind to grab them when things get exciting.

 

[WheelMan]

Domzilla9-

You may find that while your man-purse makes the daily carrying of condoms possible it may also make them unnecessary

 

[clubsoda22]

If you are in a delf defence shooting and discharge a firearm indoors, there is nothing stopping you from seeing your doctor. I'm sure he will prescribe a steroid treatment which will make the damage to your hearing minimal.

 

[TheOtherOne]

This is precisely why I wear ear muffs at all times while packing.


If you've seen Donnie Darko, think Cherita and why she was so upset when Donnie lifted her muffs!

 

[P95Carry]

I'm sure he will prescribe a steroid treatment which will make the damage to your hearing minimal.

Club ... you jest surely??!

Damage ... in literal sense of the word is generally mechanical/structural ... either to tympanic membrane .. and/or the ossicles .. not likely to be reversed by any treatment, unless a surgical option - and that unlikely!

Think of it a bit like over-driving a sub bass woofer ... either burn out the coil and /or rip the cone!

 

[Smoke]

If someone is shooting at me I:

...don't give a rats posterior if It damages my hearing.
...won't take the time to put plugs in if: a) I have any; and b) there is a chance.
...would rather be able to hear what is happening around me during the attack.
...will do everything I can to "stop the threat".

I can think about hearing loss later...if I survive.
I can worry about hearing loss while I am safe in front of my computer or at the range.

Smoke

 

[HIPOWER]

I have hearing loss from my youth and now wear hearing aids. There is a button on each hearing aid with a setting that allows me to turn them off and....voila! Instant ear plugs. However in a self defense situation I doubt that I will have time (or even think about) turning them off.

Jees, I just thought of something. I wonder what it would be like to fire a weapon with my hearing aids on!?!? I would hope that they would "clip" but I don't know. Gotta call me audiologist.

 

[.45FMJoe]

Domzilla9-

You may find that while your man-purse makes the daily carrying of condoms possible it may also make them unnecessary

AHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA pwned.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Okay, plenty of tough talk about how hearing loss is the last thing of concern if you are in a shooting fight. So, just how many of you actually put on/in your hearing protection when investigating bumps in the night. Once you are in a fight, of course hearing protection isn't the issue of significance. It is all in preparation.

This is where the electronic muffs really excel. With patience and muffs, I can just about clear a room simply by listening from the doorway in the dark. If the AC or heat is not on and with the volume turned up high, I can hear breathing of a person, or in my favorite practice pursuit, that of one of my cats.

In the middle of a fight, hearing loss is of no concern. The concern comes in being prepared BEFORE the fight, should one happen.

Muffs and glasses at home for bumps in the night.

Glasses with attached plugs come along in the car.

Maybe I use them, maybe not, but the option is available. If you don't have it available, then you can't take advantage of it.

 

[Smoke]

Okay, plenty of tough talk about how hearing loss is the last thing of concern if you are in a shooting fight. So, just how many of you actually put on/in your hearing protection when investigating bumps in the night

Not a good idea to put on muffs when things go bump. My ears are my primary sense when investigating a dark house. I know what it is supposed to sound like. Even with my deminished hearing, I can detect abnomalities in the sound of my house. A BG is more likely to give away his position with noise than with you seeing him.

And again; I'll worry about hearing loss if I survive the attack. (And I probably won't care one bit, I'll be ALIVE!)

Smoke.

 

[TonyB]

What?????














Sorry ,someone had to say it........

 

[clubsoda22]

Club ... you jest surely??!

Not at all, steroids are a widely accepted treatment for sudden hearing loss. Your subwoofer, unlike the human ear, is not biological. By using a steroid treatment to assist in your ears healing, you will loose minimal hearing as opposed to just letting it go.

I'd ask you to trust me as i'm working on a BSN (nursing) and have been working in EMS for some time now, but if not, try typing in "hearing loss steroids" into google.

 

[P95Carry]

Thx Club . I bow to your up to date experience - I trust ya!!! ...

See, my original medical background was waayyyyyy back in 60's .. corrosion has set in and I am hardly up to speed these days! In particular on things phamacological.

Mind you ... (not tryin to be argumentative!! ) but my rusty anatomy and phys' sorta tells me that extremes of mechanical damage will still not necessary heal fully if damage real severe ... then there is likely to be scar formation ... and maybe damping effects.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Smoke, quote the entire post next time. Did you read past the quote? My reference to hearing protetion for bumps in the night was for ELECTRONIC MUFFS and I provided a nifty description of just how much can be heard with such muffs, such as the sound of a cat's breathing in a completely darkened room. Electronic muffs are a very good idea for bumps in the night, much much better than normal hearing and with the benefit of hearing protection.