Want hunting handgun, not hearing aid. advice please

[Rail Driver]

How could that possibly make more than a little "pop"

Go to walmart and pick up a box of CCI 22 CB shorts.

Put one in a .22 autoloader and put one in a .22 revolver and then shoot one after the other. I guarantee the one in the revolver makes a lot more apparent noise because of the gap around the cylinder. It allows that high speed, high temp gas to escape there as well as at the muzzle, and it is that rapidly expanding gas that causes the firearm to function. Running a weak load that will "just barely get the shot through the barrel" can put you at risk of a squib load and subsequent exploded gun and hand. Do a search for the earplugs I mentioned that let you still here while talking and hunting but block shooting sounds. They're in the Cabela's catalog, and they're not the electronic ones you mentioned not wanting to try.

 

[HGUNHNTR]

Not many guys care about killing rabbits and squirrels with handguns.

I heartily disagree, many folks hunt small game with pistols and revolvers. If you were truly looking for a "survival" gun, you would have no problem trying to take large game with a .22lr. Otherwise buy a 10mm auto and put a can on it.

By the way, I am looking for a car that I can get 40 mpg for commuting, does sub 5 seconds 0-60, has a four star crash rating and costs less than $5000. Any ideas?

 

[A strange person]

It may make more apparent noise, but will it be harmful?

I found a few plugs on Cabelas site that seem like what you described, but they have very mixed reviews...

 

[22-rimfire]

...let it suffice to say that I want a "survival" weapon for situations where I do not want people to know I have a survival weapon.

I see that your issues are sound, firearm concealment, and killing power.

I think your only real solution is a suppressor.

I use electronic ear muffs and ear plugs hunting. With deer, I seldom take a shot without hearing protection anymore. Small game hunting is different as you are more likely to take quick shots. That is one you'll have to work out. Even at low handgun velocities, hearing damage can occur. The damage is generally additive or cumulative.

The Walker Game Ear is probably the smallest electronic hearing protector.

At subsonic velocities from handguns, no normal bullet will expand accept frangible bullets.

A Thompson Contender might be a consideration as you are more able to hide the firearm in your clothing if you choose to than a rifle or shotgun. Add a scope and the concealing becomes more difficult. The longer the barrel the more sound is suppressed. You can use mulitpile barrels on the same gun which gives you flexibility of caliber from 22 rimfire to fairly large rifle calibers... from bear to squirrel... But you still have the sound issue.

 

[A strange person]

The way to kill a deer with .22lr is to hit it at the base of the skull or in the eye socket. On anything larger, it may be eye socket only. For the sake of accuracy and penetration, only very close shots can be taken. when you are talking about a pistol, the range is even less because of the increased difficulty and decreased bullet velocity. I would sooner throw my tomahawk at it.

 

[A strange person]

At subsonic velocities from handguns, no normal bullet will expand accept frangible bullets.

Remember that I am talking about subsonic small game loads only. How much expansion does a .357 or .45 caliber bullet really need on a rabbit? I concede to wearing hearing protection while shooting large game, and using the most powerful rounds possible.

 

[mcdonl]

Hardworker, I still don't think you read my post. I will never try to kill large game with .22lr.

What about a single six (Or something like it....) I have a .22 SA revolver and when shooting .22 shorts at pests it is pretty much as quite as you can get, but with the 9" bbl it can drop a small deer with the magnums. Plus ammo is light, easy to carry and the gun is simple.

 

[Ole Coot]

Might as well add my opinion. You seem to want several firearms rolled into one that is quiet yet deadly on mice to bear. Well, IMHO it don't exist. Probably more deer have been taken with a 22 than any other caliber. Meat hunters and poachers plus folks without money use what they have. They rely on skill in stalking and an accurate well placed shot. I had a single shot Winchester Mod 60 about 55yrs ago and it killed enough game to feed us. Now I need to decide on what firearm I want for what particular game, much simpler then and seems to me you're complicating a simple thing.

 

[thunder173]

I think if I was going to try doing this all with just one gun, one that would be concealable,...powerful enought to take medium to large game,..yet able to be take small game without turning it into a fuzzy pink mist,...??? I would probably go with a .357magnum,...and most likely it would be a Ruger Blackhawk.

I like the Single Six .22LR/.22WMR as well,..but honestly,...it would be limited as far as it's use on medium to larger game. Not that it wouldn't be functionally possible,..but limited in its likley legality in some places, ....and ethically in most others.

I have taken deer with .357's using factory loaded 158 Grain jacketed soft points,...and have used the same revolvers to take rabbits with a low powered 110 grain wadcutter a friend casted up for me,...over 2 grains of Bullseye. Reasonably quiet,..very accurate and very functional on small game. Even a standard 148 grain WC, or 158 Grain Lead Round Nose would do the job without destroying too much of the edibles on most small game,..but you have to do your part. I would suppose any .357 revolver would fit that bill,..but I personally prefer the Ruger single actions for hunting and multi-use purposes,....ymmv

Your other issues are with hearing loss/damage and available hearing protection. The many electronic varieties out there should be able to provide you with a solution. Fact is,..there are no forearms out there that are not likley to cause at least minimal hearing loss over time. I wear hearing protection on the range at all times,..but only occasionally, if ever,... when hunting,..even with large bore handguns or rifles.

 

[BCRider]

This topic came up on another thread here or on another forum a while back. The best answer seemed to be a combination of loads just like thunder173 suggested immediately above.

A hint I gave in the other thread was to color code the base of the cartridges with a felt pen so you can open the cylinder and rotate to the power needed more easily. That would let you carry a mixed load for quicker selection yet still identify them easily and quickly.

The lower power .38wadcutters will be pretty soft sounding. Especially from a 6 inch barrel, which you'll want for the longer sight line anyway. They would be louder than a .22 but sure not by much at all.

Keep in mind that the POI vs POA of a mix of very low power small game wadcutters to defensive .357Mag is going to be huge... unless you tailor the wadcutters down so low in power that there isn't much energy to lift the barrel. If you did that then you may well get a unique combo of bullet and powder in a low power round that matches the recoil IN THAT ONE GUN for .357Mag rounds. Otherwise it's normal for regular .38Spl rounds to impact higher than magnums by a good 3 inches at 12'ish yards.

I'd suggest you work on some test reloads of 2.0 to 2.4 gns of Bullseye or similar light loads of Trailboss and try a variety of cast lead bullets ranging from lightweight 90gn to 158gn options. At some point you should find a load that very closely mimics the close in ballistics of the magnums you'd want to also have for defensive use. Bullseye and Trailboss are both excellent powders for such light loads because of their burn consistency. Trailboss being "designed" for cowboy action shooting where light loads that barely dust the inside of the cases are the norm.

 

[NELSONs02]

you should look at the electronic muffs that also amplify sounds and then cut off when shots are fired

Yup. Electronic earmuffs are the only true solution

 

[thunder173]

Ole Coot

Probably more deer have been taken with a 22 than any other caliber. Meat hunters and poachers plus folks without money use what they have

From one "Ole Coot" to anuther,.....Agreed.

Back in a younger day,..I popped my fair share of critters with a .22 or a .22 mag,..because that was what we had,..and if I ever HAD to do it again,..and that was all I had,..I wouldn't hesitate doing so again. Now having said that,..a .22 anything,... in the circimstances the OP has laid out,..well,..it wouldn't be my first choice.

On the other hand,...if I were going out to BUY one gun,..to do ALL the OP has asked about,...and ALL had to be done by that ONE gun,....it's gonna be a .357,...with a mix of loads,..and I am gonna get as comfortable and proficient with that gun as I can get.

I mentioned the .357 Blackhawk because quite honestly,..there WAS a time when the Ruger was the only gun I owned that WOULD do exactley what the poster is asking. Back then I owned a Ruger Blackhawk, ..an old break down single shot .410,...and a Marlin Model 60. I'd often carry just that Ruger for deer hunting here in Michigan,...and sometimes other seasons overlapped.

That was a lot of years ago. Fortunately,..I have expanded the collection over the years to other guns that give me other,...and often much better options.

 

[ironhead7544]

A 10 inch 357 Magnum TC Contender might work for you. Since there is no cylinder gap a squibb load might be quiet. You would have to experiment. A deer load would be more of a problem as its not going to be quiet. You could also suppress the Contender. One thing about that is that it may not be legal. Its not legal for any game here in GA.

I think the best solution would be a rifle. The Ruger 77/44 with built in suppressor can throw a 300 gr bullet at 1050 fps and is almost silent. You could also work up a squibb for small game. A round nosed bullet at low velocity will not tear up small game too much.

Just my .02.

 

[Shadow 7D]

Sorry buddy but
FROM THE START
it's a nogo
any gun that goes bang will cause hearing damage, even .22 are loud enough to cause permanent hearing loss, unless you are shooting shorts or colbri's.

A pistol with a subsonic round and suppressor can be reduced to tolerable levels.

Now a 'quite' round isn't idea for hunting, so there is your next NOGO
and BTW my great aunt took a 12 pt buck with a 10/22, one shot,
it's all about placement.

 

[oneounceload]

A couple shots outdoors now and then of 357 without plugs is not gonna kill your hearing.

Wrong - just plain wrong. ONE shot can cause permanent damage - hearing loss is CUMULATIVE, and it NEVER gets better, only worse - that statement is irresponsible

 

[A strange person]

This topic came up on another thread here or on another forum a while back. The best answer seemed to be a combination of loads

This is exactly what I have been talking about from the beginning. I was kind of leaning towards a .357 Ruger blackhawk as well. I concede to wearing ear protection with full-strength big game loads. It is quiet small game loads I am interested in. Rabbits and grouse jump out of the brush and off into God knows where. Having to slip plugs in before taking a shot sometimes works and often does not.

Sorry buddy but
FROM THE START
it's a nogo
any gun that goes bang will cause hearing damage, even .22 are loud enough to cause permanent hearing loss.

I do not believe this. My understanding is that hearing damage causes a tell-tale temporary ringing or at least a muffled sensation in your ears after exposure to loud noise. I have never experienced this even after extended shooting with a .22lr rifle. A handgun may be different though. I think everyones ears are different. That would explain why even the data from doctors I have been finding is so inconsistent. I have to rely on my own judgement. 22lr, at least from a rifle, and at least for me, does not cause hearing damage, period.

 

[Shadow 7D]

dude, it's your ears, and if you don't care, well I hope your health care covers hearing aids,

Secondly any gun is going to produce 120 (or much more) Db. noise levels, even those .22s and anything over 80-100Db can result in hearing loss.
Once again, it's your ears, if you don't care, what ever.

 

[A strange person]

Anything over 80db can cause hearing damage with enough continuous exposure. It takes alot more than that to cause instantantaneous hearing damage, or even damage with just a few moments (interspersed shots) of exposure. Everyone would be stone-deaf by the age of 6 if what you said was true.

 

[6x6pinz]

I personally use a Taurus Pt99 for my handgun hunting. While it is in 9mm it has taken many Javelina and a bunch of rabbit, coyotes... never had the occassion to shoot anything larger. I recently went to the "hunters ear" type of hearing protection. They amplify the sounds and shut off when the gun is fired, works well with pistol, rifle and shotgun. The added benefit is it makes up for my old age hearing loss so I can hear as well as the youngsters. You can spend as much as you like on these types of hearing aids but I found the ones in the $150 class work very well and are extremely comfortable.

 

[A strange person]

I am liking the idea of a suppressed .45 more and more. I have found a few credible accounts of .45 FMJ's being used on rabbits and such and not doing too much damage (or even killing the animal) I have found other accounts, including pictures, of large bucks being cleanly taken with .45 HP's, albeit at close range and with good shot placement, of course.

But I wonder if even a suppressed .45 is "safe" to shoot a few times with no plugs or muffs. I have never actually heard a suppressed weapon in real life, but I hear they are still pretty loud. Suppressors are legal here by the way.

I have never used the type of electronic muffs people use for hunting, but I have used other hearing amplification devices and well, I just don't like them. The sounds are not "natural", and it gets irritating very quickly. I can see how they would be alright for sit-hunting over a field, game trail, duck decoys, etc., but that is not exactly what I am talking about.

 

[A strange person]

Wow, suppressors are EXPENSIVE!!! I am still leaning towards the semi-auto though. Lightest gun, most compact ammo, and maybe someday I'll get a suppressor. Till then, I'll just have to try those electronic ears, or get kung-fu quick with my walmart plugs. I know neither 9mm nor .45ACP are great for large game, but the likelihood of ever having to actually use it for this purpose in real life is slim. Close-range, broadside shot, carefull not to hit the shoulder bone, unload the whole clip if I have to... My dream of a half-decent "survival" weapon light enough to ride hands-free on the person and small enough to be concealed, and that doesn't harm you in some way, may be close to being realized. Then it will be time to concoct some other expensive, elusive "need".

I have nearly a year to think about it though, I am only 20

 

[Old krow]

But I wonder if even a suppressed .45 is "safe" to shoot a few times with no plugs or muffs.

Look into Gemtech, ACC, and Vector. They all make suppressors and if I'm not mistaken they make them for 1911s and most other 45s. I think you're going to find that they will suppress around 30-45 dbs.

Valkyrie Arms makes the DeLisle Commando Carbine that runs extremely silent in a .45 ACP. I believe that are several companies out there making a similar version now, if anybody knows chime in please... so I can get one

I do not believe this. My understanding is that hearing damage causes a tell-tale temporary ringing or at least a muffled sensation in your ears after exposure to loud noise.

Decibels are logarithmic, not linear. In dbs 120 is not twice as much as 60. You won't necessarily have any tinnitus or muffled hearing from 80 dbs, but that in no way means that damage isn't happening. I believe that it's either 84 or 85 dbs that it occurs though. If you cross the pain threshold it could happen. Simply shooting a .22lr long enough with no hearing protection will cause damage in the affected frequencies. I take 2 audiograms per year, because my job depends on it. I know exactly how much hearing I lose from shooting firearms even with hearing protection, and I'm not old. My name is a reference to an occupation, at least in as much as Shadow 7D is.

But, like they said, it's your hearing.

 

[788Ham]

Strange,

My hearing is gone, I need aids to hear the birds sing outside now, sometimes! I served in Viet Nam, many, many rounds shot behind, in front, to the side of me, over time, you go DEAF! It doesn't appear sometimes a .22 rifle, pistol are loud, but OVER TIME, it catches you! It doesn't matter whom you talk to, Dr.'s, filling station tire repair folks, or the grocery store clerk, over time those innocent shots are going to catch up with you, take it from me, I know first hand, you'll go deaf for sure, and, you'll never gain it back, suppressed or not!

I think your tagline explains many things, delusions of grandeur.

 

[A strange person]

I actually do wear plugs while practicing with my .22 rifle, but not while hunting.

 

[HGUNHNTR]

I do not believe this. My understanding is that hearing damage causes a tell-tale temporary ringing or at least a muffled sensation in your ears after exposure to loud noise. I have never experienced this even after extended shooting with a .22lr rifle. A handgun may be different though. I think everyones ears are different.

Wrong, The cumulative effect of shooting rimfires without hearing protection will certainly destroy your hearing. The way all humans ears work is identical, and the way in which they are ruined is also identical, unless you believe you have superhuman eardrums. I rode many many hours on a tractor that had a turbo with my dad as a kid. I never experienced ringing or muffled sounds until early into my adult life. My physician said the damage was almost certainly from exposure to turbo whine for an extended period of time. Couple that with shooting without hearing protection occasionally and I am a 34 yr old with 40% hearing loss. Like an earlier poster said, it's your ears do what you like.