Your opinion on felons owning guns?

[JeffG]

As a career LEO, most of the felons that were caught with guns really didn't care what anyone thought. Making a law to exclude gun rights from a felon doesn't make practical sense, if they are going to possess and carry them anyway.

 

[Atavar]

Does that mean you advocate making it legal?
personally I see it as them just having more rope.
It’s something to extend the sentence on their next conviction.

 

[JeffG]

Does that mean you advocate making it legal?
personally I see it as them just having more rope.
It’s something to extend the sentence on their next conviction.

You bring up a valid point. I have always seen a gun as a tool. It's not the fact that you have one, but what you do with it. If you break the law with it, you get prosecuted for it. Why should a felon, reformed or otherwise, not have self defense or home defense rights?

 

[dcloco]

A right is a right. If they can't be trusted to own a weapon then why were they let out of prison?

.....because of the decision making failure that led them to being incarcerated.

 

[Riomouse911]

Here is a question no one has asked.

Do the affected victims have any say in whether the person who perpetrated the crime against them get a say in whether or not the person getting out of prison after finishing a felony sentence gets their gun rights back?

If they’re cool with it, I am.

Stay safe.

 

[bdickens]

You may not yell "fire" in a crowded theatre.

Not so fast. You actually can yell "fire" in a crowded theater if there is in fact a fire.

 

[Atavar]

You bring up a valid point. I have always seen a gun as a tool. It's not the fact that you have one, but what you do with it. If you break the law with it, you get prosecuted for it. Why should a felon, reformed or otherwise, not have self defense or home defense rights?

Because they have already proven they will use the tool to deprive others of their rights. When you misuse the tool you don’t get to use it any more.

 

[Atavar]

Here is a question no one has asked.

Do the affected victims have any say in whether the person who perpetrated the crime against them get a say in whether or not the person getting out of prison after finishing a felony sentence gets their gun rights back?

If they’re cool with it, I am.

Stay safe.

That is part of the petition process.

 

[CherokeeGunslinger]

"Should felons be able to own guns?" Rephrased for simplicity.

My general opinion is that yes, felons, whether violent or non-violent, should receive all of their rights back upon being released, including their RKBA.

Let's go into more specifics.

• "What about pedophiles, murderers, human traffickers or rapists?" Death penalty. Problem solved. Next case.
• "What about people who dealt drugs?" Consenting adults make bad choices to buy drugs. A drug dealer simply feeds them the yay-yo because they asked for it. While I am of the opinion that drug dealing is immoral, I am also smart enough to understand that wanting to make or keep things illegal just because one personally perceives them as immoral... Is a fool's game. I've known dudes who dealt drugs and they understand that they made bad choices, but made said choices because they genuinely felt it was the only way to feed their children. They aren't angels, but nobody here is. They're just people like you and me.
• "What about people who did/possessed drugs?" I'm not about to advocate that people should be disenfranchised for making the stupid decision to buy a dimebag of coke off of Lenny the local drug dealer. Again, consenting adults. Lots of people advocate the government prohibiting what a consenting adult can put into their own body until it's something they like.
• "What about people who did so-and-so?" Don't care, I didn't cover it before, so...

Ultimately, I feel like many people who champion prohibited possessor laws do so because they're ignorant of why people turn to crime and ignorant of the fact that many criminals change their ways to become good people again. The bottom line is that people screw up, and just because a person screwed up so bad that they became a convicted felon, does not mean their rights should be forefeit for life. I feel that maybe, felons would be less likely to reoffend if prison were not designed to be a psychologically repressive, dehumanizing place.

If you're not safe enough to be trusted with a gun, then you're not safe enough to be out on the street. It's easy for people to get guns, regardless of the law or whether Big Brother says it's okay. Part of the American Spirit.

Of course, I take "shall not be infringed" pretty seriously. Giving the government the power to regulate and infringe upon its largest check/balance, your ability to hold it to task when all else fails, is counterintuitive to the Second Amendment's purpose and to the security of a free state. Consider the fact that there are a crazy amount of felonies from the federal to state levels, that you can be convicted of a felony in certain states for exercising your RKBA, and that the same power wanting to disarm felons for your safety has committed historical atrocities.

Sorry if this sounded like a rant, I just wanted to make sure I got the point across of why I see prohibited possessor laws as morally repugnant.

 

[Atavar]

Dude, did you miss the part where felons already *can* get their rights back?
What are you ranting for?
All they gotta do is go by the rules, the same as the rest of us.
If they don’t want to do the red tape and jump through the hoops then that’s on them.

 

[Atavar]

Let’s take this a step further.. if you want to automatically restore RKBA upon release then aren’t you going to have to return the felons firearm and ammunition to them when released along with their other possessions? Failure to do so is simple infringement.
Are you going to volunteer to be the one who not only tells their victim that the felon is being released but that you armed the felon because of your deep seated convictions?

 

[Atavar]

"
"What about people who dealt drugs?" Consenting adults make bad choices to buy drugs.

Drug dealers don’t card their customers. They sell to children and addicts who are not competent to make that decision. Drug dealers are evil.

What about people who genuinely felt it was the only way to feed their children. They aren't angels, but nobody here is. They're just people like you and me.

I take genuine offense to this statement. I lived through more than my share of hard times and I worked two or three or more jobs if that was what it took to take care of my children. I worked at hard and repugnant jobs that I did not enjoy or want to do. I did not choose to steal or hurt people to meet our needs. Hard times are not an excuse for evil behavior.
Do not group me with “people like you”

 

[Steve S.]

The only behavior I can control is my own. As a child/ young man, I committed no crimes. I served in the Army the last three years of Vietnam, was honorably discharged, attended the University of MO on the GI Bill. I got married, raised five children, made a very good living and now at the age of 67, I have managed to never commit a crime.
I have never had a right taken from me nor have I ever been denied the purchase of a firearm. I am not tooting my own horn, I am just speaking for the only behavior that I can control. I followed the law all of my life and I never violated anyone. The result of using my head and behaving correctly paid great dividends in a great Country.
I am just one simple person from a very humble set of parents that managed to dodge bad behavior because I chose to. I cannot control other’s behavior nor will I try. If others choose crime and incarceration, then they have to pay the prevailing price - whatever that price happens to be. “I made a mistake” is nothing more than an excuse. Again, I am nothing special and I managed to avoid crime and punishment - if I can do it, anyone can IF they make that choice. I have no sympathy for the excuses and I simply do not care about you having rights - you made bad choices - “if you can’t do the time…..!

 

[DoubleMag]

You all are talking like there is no process to restore the civil rights of felons. In virtually every state a felon can appeal first to the governor to have your basic civil rights restored, then to the circuit court to have your right to bear arms restored.
I see no problem to seeing some red tape and a burden for proof of citizenship (the behavior) as a step towards having rights restored. The onus for this is rightly with the felon.
I don’t see what you are all arguing about as these rights -including the right to vote and the right to bear arms- are already restorable for felons not convicted for domestic violence.

Here is a question no one has asked.

Do the affected victims have any say in whether the person who perpetrated the crime against them get a say in whether or not...

THESE 2 posts for the win. Yes, the after-incarceration process for restoring rights exists. The way I remember it, NO HANDGUNS. And it's not an easy process, break out the cabbage$$ and expect no quick fix.

And yes victim input is very standardized in the sentencing process, if there is actual parole hearings anymore, the victim can make a statement. And it is heavily listened to.

 

[Atavar]

I do want to take a moment to say that if any of you are EX-felons who have had your rights restored and are working to be a contributing member of society and make reparations I have nothing but praise for you.
I have stated in the past that people on food stamps should have access to surplus tags and licenses for legitimate non-trophy food game like does, small and upland game but that’s a whole ‘nother thread.
For the others looking for a handout thinking society owes you something just keep it up and you can get your free room and board back. I won’t feel sorry for you.

 

[Waveski]

A drug dealer simply feeds them the yay-yo because they asked for it.

You are hard line on some points , (I am not criticizing that) , but are pretty soft on drug dealers.

 

[whughett]

This is nowhere near always true. Their have been entire books written to explain how most Americans commit multiple felonies a day, without even knowing it..

I’ve read this entire thread top to bottom and I’m still trying to figure out what felony I committed yesterday and which will I commit today.

 

[kwguy]

Maybe the real issue is that some felons aren’t actually felonious, and probably shouldn’t have been labeled that way in the first place, and other actual felonious felons are allowed back into society, to the point where this is even a discussion. Maybe they should be put away longer.

 

[Deanimator]

You are hard line on some points , (I am not criticizing that) , but are pretty soft on drug dealers.

It's not worth it to me to stop you from using or selling drugs, to have the police kick in MY door because they can't read an address or do a five minute internet search that would tell them that the person who USED to live at my address has been in prison for murder for five years.

There are literally DOZENS of such cases in Chicago, for which NOBODY has EVER been punished, fired or prosecuted.

I'm not willing to have my door kicked in, have guns pointed at me, or potentially to DIE to stop you from using or selling drugs.

 

[Deanimator]

I’ve read this entire thread top to bottom and I’m still trying to figure out what felony I committed yesterday and which will I commit today.

That's not a bug. It's a feature.

 

[DustyGmt]

I'm looking forward to taking some time to read this thread, I know there are some strong opinions held on the subject here. I have expressed mine and that is, I believe once somebody has paid their debt to society they ought to have their constitutional rights restored. I also believe that it should be determined on a case by case basis using a certain criteria. Using a gun in the commission of a felony and sexual assault are pretty good benchmarks for lifetime disqualification imo.

There are alot of people, some of whom I know personally who can't own a gun or rifle hunt because of some stupid thing. A fight with a brother, teenage indiscretions, arguing loudly with the girlfriend, trumped up domestic charges,, etc... the list goes on.

 

[Atavar]

I believe once somebody has paid their debt to society they ought to have their constitutional rights restored

You do understand that going to prison is nothing but punishment and does nothing to rehabilitate the prisoner or repay any debt to society. If anything prison adds to to debt to society. Society gains nothing from throwing someone in prison. It is actually quite expensive.
Any repayment of a debt to society (or to victims) would begin when the felon is released.

 

[Waveski]

Is the OP "Hottie" going to follow up in some fashion , or was he just poking the hornet's nest?

 

[FL-NC]

Someone who cheated on taxes, or made a stupid decision a long time ago (especially without malicious intent) shouldn't necessarily forfeit a constitutional right for life. Someone with a history of robbery or assault with weapons, or a jacket with predatory criminal behavior is way different than someone who got into a bar fight years ago and got the book thrown at him/her, or had a substance abuse problem at one time and got caught with something in his/her pocket but is now "clean". I have a close friend who after his 4 years in the 82d airborne (with a couple of combat deployments) was honorably discharged and drank too much. He was DWI, and tried to run from the cops in Idaho. He ended up crashing- no damage to anyone else's property or injuries. Now he won't touch alcohol, but he is a felon- who has finished culinary school and is a very accomplished chef at a high end restaurant. His wife is a lawyer specializing in international law. Based on his criminal history, he can't own a firearm.
Something else to think about- our elected officials have decided that these people have served their punishment, and no longer pose a threat to the point they are released and "free". At one time, they couldn't get a driver's license or vote- now they are able to get a CDL and in some cases are voting while still locked up. Why are only SOME of their rights being restored? There are people who were granted waivers for felonies and allowed to join the military (where there are lots of guns) during the late unpleasantness, when enlistment numbers were down. In many cases, these people got their act together, and served honorably- often in combat.
I guess my point is that it is a complex issue that probably shouldn't be addressed with a "1 size fits all" approach, like so many other things our government addresses in similar ways. I checked the 2nd amendment, and I didn't see anything about felons, or the word "except" anywhere in it.

 

[Deanimator]

Someone who cheated on taxes, or made a stupid decision a long time ago (especially without malicious intent) shouldn't necessarily forfeit a constitutional right for life. Someone with a history of robbery or assault with weapons, or a jacket with predatory criminal behavior is way different than someone who got into a bar fight years ago and got the book thrown at him/her, or had a substance abuse problem at one time and got caught with something in his/her pocket but is now "clean".

EVERY totalitarian state uses its "justice" system to peel people away from civil society. Criminals and former "criminals" provide a pool of low wage labor, with few alternatives. It's what powered the Soviet economy all through the '30s and '40s. It's what's powering the Chinese economy to this day.