M.Weier
Member
I heard the recording of a phone call to the mayor about this when it happend (a few years ago now) and the mayor did say "when you are stopped by LE your rights are temporarily suspended" I heard it on Tom Greshems Gun Talk Radio
Your Rights Are Suspended
- Thread starter St8LineGunsmith
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It is perfectly legal for an officer to secure any weapon in a stop.
There is not violation of the 2A and claiming there is reveals ignorance on the part of the person making such a claim.
What would not be legal is if the officer refused to return the weapon after the end of the stop. The few legitimate reasons to retain the weapon would be if the citizen was under the influence or the weapon was reported stolen.
Again, it is important for all of us to understand that an officer may temporarily secure a firearm in a stop for safety, but it is not legal to retain the weapon.
There is not violation of the 2A and claiming there is reveals ignorance on the part of the person making such a claim.
What would not be legal is if the officer refused to return the weapon after the end of the stop. The few legitimate reasons to retain the weapon would be if the citizen was under the influence or the weapon was reported stolen.
Again, it is important for all of us to understand that an officer may temporarily secure a firearm in a stop for safety, but it is not legal to retain the weapon.
what about factors like running a weapon's serial number?
I have heard of cases where an officer observed an uninstalled stereo sitting in the back seat, recorded the serial numbers and ran it, found it stolen and it stood up in court, but of another case where the officer had to flip over a stereo to see the numbers and this was considered a 'search' because it wasn't in plain sight.
How much manipulation of a firearm are the officers allowed? If it is cased and in the back seat, can they open up the case? Do they even have the right to look at serial numbers on the slide if it wouldn't have been visible except for if it was turned over to them? Can grips which cover the serial number be removed? Tape over the serial number?
Although it is extremely unlikely, could a cop have one of those small bullet catchers like can be used to safely clear a weapon in the back of his SUV plus a some common ammo types, load up the gun with the PD ammo and take some 'ballistic samples' before giving it back?
I read the laws as whatever is not is specifically made illegal is therefore legal, and whatever powers are not specifically granted by the law are NOT present.
Police don't intrinsically have power just because they are police. They are granted powers by the law. Often the laws that grant these powers are inexact and vague.
What laws grant an officer the power to seize a firearm during a traffic stop (if any) and what case law backs up this? I believe there have been some court cases where this has been ruled reasonable, but I can't recall them.
I think if someone is going to say "I can assure you that in all 50 states, police officers have the legal authority to take possesion of firearms during a traffic stop." then they should back that assertion up with facts
I have heard of cases where an officer observed an uninstalled stereo sitting in the back seat, recorded the serial numbers and ran it, found it stolen and it stood up in court, but of another case where the officer had to flip over a stereo to see the numbers and this was considered a 'search' because it wasn't in plain sight.
How much manipulation of a firearm are the officers allowed? If it is cased and in the back seat, can they open up the case? Do they even have the right to look at serial numbers on the slide if it wouldn't have been visible except for if it was turned over to them? Can grips which cover the serial number be removed? Tape over the serial number?
Although it is extremely unlikely, could a cop have one of those small bullet catchers like can be used to safely clear a weapon in the back of his SUV plus a some common ammo types, load up the gun with the PD ammo and take some 'ballistic samples' before giving it back?
I read the laws as whatever is not is specifically made illegal is therefore legal, and whatever powers are not specifically granted by the law are NOT present.
Police don't intrinsically have power just because they are police. They are granted powers by the law. Often the laws that grant these powers are inexact and vague.
What laws grant an officer the power to seize a firearm during a traffic stop (if any) and what case law backs up this? I believe there have been some court cases where this has been ruled reasonable, but I can't recall them.
I think if someone is going to say "I can assure you that in all 50 states, police officers have the legal authority to take possesion of firearms during a traffic stop." then they should back that assertion up with facts
Your tin foil a little tight today?
MedWheeler
Member
No synopsis in the OP; no click/no read.
Edit: the OP did return and provide the synopsis.
Edit: the OP did return and provide the synopsis.
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St8LineGunsmith
Member.
now that theres funny I dont care who you areSt8LineGunsmith
Member.
M.Weier
Member
What the mayor said in the recording was that ALL your rights have been "temporarily suspended" not just your 2nd amendment rights.
lobo9er
Member
do you know that's what happened? Why would the video end so abruptly? The little search i did had equal amount of info saying the opposite. LE that treat legal gun owners with respect as he did in the video should be propped up. Not used for political gain or what ever is going on here. If this video is edited (which it is) and the story is fake it hurts gun owners image. It sounds like the ORG. is illegitimate on top of it.
this is indicative of the mentality of some elected officials and some LEOs.. "it's not illegal, until it's proven to be illegal".. so, even if what they are doing actually *is* illegal, they will continue to conduct themselves in the same manner, until those actions are proven to be illegal.. and when/if those actions are proven to be illegal, they will issue a mea culpa in return and promise not to do what they've been doing.. then go right back to business as usual, until there's another issue..
AFAIK, in Texas, it is *not* required to inform a LEO if you are carrying.. since 9/2007, it is *not* illegal to conceal carry in your vehicle due to the Castle Doctrine..
AFAIK, in Texas, it is *not* required to inform a LEO if you are carrying.. since 9/2007, it is *not* illegal to conceal carry in your vehicle due to the Castle Doctrine..
I think that if the person isn't carrying illegal then the firearm should stay put away for safety. who's to say that the officer will not disarm someone, and then decide to go nuts. Just cause they wear a badge doesn't mean that the law should be tilted in his favor.
If he doesn't turn over his gun, why should I?
It isn't like it doesn't happen.. This isn't an isolated scene. I am not turning this into a cop vs. citizen thread. I just think that what is good for one is good for all.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kK4RskuZYWk
If he doesn't turn over his gun, why should I?
It isn't like it doesn't happen.. This isn't an isolated scene. I am not turning this into a cop vs. citizen thread. I just think that what is good for one is good for all.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kK4RskuZYWk
hermannr
Member
I don't think so. In OK law it specifically states that they can ask for your CPL, (OK is a "must inform" state) but if you have your CPL they cannot legally cannot disarm you....it is written into the law... That goes into effect 1 Nov with the new OK opencarry law.
In WA state, I have open carried since 1970, I have NEVER been disarmed, I have NEVER even been asked if I was armed or for my CPL at a traffic stop, (even when the officer came to the passenger window and could see my carry) and at a traffic stop in WA the officer receives your CPL when he runs your drivers license anyway. (Unlicensed OC is legal in WA)
I have had two interactions with LE in those 42 years...The first was about 25 years ago...Deputy: "hunting", me: "yep" end of discussion...I was loading my camper after coming out of a grocery store....the second was only a couple weeks ago...Deputy: "What is it" Me: CZ85, Deputy: "Cool, nice gun". That is how it is supposed to work.
My carry, my CPL, and anything to do with that has absolutely nothing to do with a traffic stop. The rule about "officer safety" has to do for a stop for criminal activity...try read Terry...that is why they call it a "Terry Stop".
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I have been pulled over twice in my car on once on the Harley. Never once was I disarmed. I did however hand them my CCW card with my license even though it is not required in my state.
At that time I was asked where is your firearm located. Typical answer is holstered or in my pocket.
Officer leaves, and comes back with a "warning", yes, "warning" with a thank you for letting me know you were armed.
I still do not believe that I would turn over my firearm. I would do like I have done in the past. Roll up the window, hand them my lawyer's card, and ask that they get a warrant to search my vehicle. If this is a criminal traffic stop then that shouldn't be a problem. Right. No, blinker stop. Not getting my gun.
I may be ignorant here, but isn't your vehicle an extension of your home when away from your home. I wouldn't let an officer walk into my house and disarm me without a warrant.
Seriously not trying to make waves. I comply with the law, and go above it to let the officer know that I am willing to let him know I am armed. So far it has worked out.
But I have had officers try to search my car for no reason at all without probably cause to plant dope on me. I know this because there was an investigation regarding officers doing this. Up went the windows with the lawyer's card, and a I refuse to answer any further questions until he, the lawyer, is present, and/or you have a warrant delivered from a judge.
In those cases the officers gave up, and let me on my way. Because they had nothing, and could do nothing without obviously breaking the law.
I think personally that an officer having the ability to disarm a law abiding citizen who paid money to the state, took the tests to carry, and was cleared to carry is a little out of bounds. Give up your gun to a man with a gun? Just because he has a badge doesn't make him an upstanding citizen, but it goes both ways. I guess. I still do not think it is right. If a man is legal to carry, do your business, and be on your way if you are the officer. Having a man disarm is just a power trip, and an escalation of power. That could be the very thing that makes a simple traffic stop into something a lot worse.
At that time I was asked where is your firearm located. Typical answer is holstered or in my pocket.
Officer leaves, and comes back with a "warning", yes, "warning" with a thank you for letting me know you were armed.
I still do not believe that I would turn over my firearm. I would do like I have done in the past. Roll up the window, hand them my lawyer's card, and ask that they get a warrant to search my vehicle. If this is a criminal traffic stop then that shouldn't be a problem. Right. No, blinker stop. Not getting my gun.
I may be ignorant here, but isn't your vehicle an extension of your home when away from your home. I wouldn't let an officer walk into my house and disarm me without a warrant.
Seriously not trying to make waves. I comply with the law, and go above it to let the officer know that I am willing to let him know I am armed. So far it has worked out.
But I have had officers try to search my car for no reason at all without probably cause to plant dope on me. I know this because there was an investigation regarding officers doing this. Up went the windows with the lawyer's card, and a I refuse to answer any further questions until he, the lawyer, is present, and/or you have a warrant delivered from a judge.
In those cases the officers gave up, and let me on my way. Because they had nothing, and could do nothing without obviously breaking the law.
I think personally that an officer having the ability to disarm a law abiding citizen who paid money to the state, took the tests to carry, and was cleared to carry is a little out of bounds. Give up your gun to a man with a gun? Just because he has a badge doesn't make him an upstanding citizen, but it goes both ways. I guess. I still do not think it is right. If a man is legal to carry, do your business, and be on your way if you are the officer. Having a man disarm is just a power trip, and an escalation of power. That could be the very thing that makes a simple traffic stop into something a lot worse.
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Only if they ask me. We don't have to inform when pulled over for a traffic violation. If it went past that, then yes, I would. But not for a plain old ticket, unless asked. I have an NRA, and a sherriff auto decal on my vechicle, Rear window, "small ones" 1 1/2 -2 inch decal. Shows I am a booster for local law enforcement and the NRA. They pretty much know between those 2 that I might be armed. Grey hair and polite, I very rarelly ahve a problem with police for any reason.
FYI for strange emails always check www.snopes.com and http://urbanlegendsonline.com since con-artists, nuts, crazy political agendas, and other scams have a amazing ammounts of BS spreading around the internet. Cough CPR is one of the most annoying/risky lies out there.
Louisiana sadly has a long history of corruption and lawsuits so we will see what happens in this situation. Shreveport is a rather odd town.
Louisiana sadly has a long history of corruption and lawsuits so we will see what happens in this situation. Shreveport is a rather odd town.
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