Your thoughts on conversion cylinders

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DJ, you didn't look hard enough. On page 190 there are no less than 6 with 2 piece conversion cyls not to mention with an explanation of roughly 25,000 production examples. On page 49, two cased examples and on pg 48 a rimfire version all by itself. On pg 47 are 2 more 2 piece examples as well as 4 shown with 3 more in holsters which are assumed to be as well. Others are pictured on pgs. 44, 43 and 37. The version you stated was an experimental design is described as one of 2 common designs . . .

Just fyi.

Mike
 
Are we talking about the same book?

The only book I have by Adler is the one on the left in this photo, which is strictly about revolvers with cartridge conversions. Your descriptions of page numbers do not match up with this book. Perhaps we are talking about two different books.

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I may have been unclear in what I said earlier.


"Historical note: The six shot R&D cylinder with its separate cap is not a historically accurate replica of a conversion cylinder. None of the old designs used a removable cap with separate firing pins. I like the R&D version for the reasons I stated above. Quick and easy to reload. As I said, I only shoot mine with Black Powder. I began shooting Cap & Ball revolvers in 1968, and in my experience a cartridge conversion is quicker to reload and shoot, and no worries about pieces of broken caps falling into the mechanism. That's why they were developed during the Civil War."

What I meant by that statement is a cylinder with a separate cap, and separate firing pins for each chamber, is not historically accurate.

Yes, I was wrong, I found one description and photo of a Remington with a separate cap that had six firing pins on it on page 52 in Adler's conversions book. It is described as an experimental conversion done at the Springfield Armory. Adler mentions this design served as the basis for Ken Howell's conversions that also had a rear cap on the cylinder and had separated firing pins for each chamber.

Yes, there were many conversions of the Remington 1858 Cap & Ball revolver done in the years following the Civil War. Many of these revolvers were converted by independent gunsmiths in their own shops. Yes, some of these had two piece cylinders, with a separate cap covering the rear of the cylinder. But the great majority of these conversions with two piece cylinders that I have seen, simply had an extra long firing pin, usually formed on the original hammer. This hammer mounted firing pin could protrude through slots cut in the rear cap to fire each chamber. This only makes sense. It was much simpler, and therefor cheaper, to simply have an extra long firing pin on the hammer, than to mount six separate firing pins on the rear of a cylinder. If I am wrong, and there were lots of Remington conversions manufactured with separate firing pins on the cap, please show me and I will readily admit I was wrong. It would not be the first time I was wrong, and certainly not the last.

The Remington conversions authorized by Smith and Wesson in 1868 and 1869 had a thin plate attached to the rear of the frame. The plate was screwed directly to the frame. Smith and Wesson was the licensee to the Rollin White patent for revolvers with bored through chambers that could accept cartridges. This patent expired in 1869. As the patent licensee, in February of 1868 S&W signed a contract with Remington allowing Remington to alter a total of 4,574 Cap & Ball revolvers to fire cartridges. Remington did the conversions at their factory in Ilion NY. New five shot 46 rimfire cylinders were used. S&W received a $1.00 royalty on each revolver converted.

I'm pretty sure this is a photo of one of the S&W licensed conversions.

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I have taken the liberty of down loading a photo from Jim Supica's Arm Chair Gunshow of a close up of one of the S&W licensed 1858 conversions. As I mentioned above, new 5 shot 46 rimfire cylinders were made for these conversions. The thin plate behind the cylinder, that was screwed to the frame, is evident in this photo. Also, notice there was no loading gate. The groove where caps had been affixed to the nipples was enlarged for loading cartridges. The geometry of the plate kept cartridges in place except when the hammer was placed at the half cock loading position, and a chamber lined up with the gap in the plate. I suspect one had to be careful to avoid cocking one of these revolvers slowly with the muzzle raised in the air, lest a round slide backwards out of the chamber.

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While we are on the subject of Remington conversions, here is a very interesting one I picked up a year or two ago. An original Remington Cap & Ball revolver converted to fire the 32-20 cartridge. Notice the new front sight. Notice the barrel has been threaded much further than normal and screwed far into the frame to meet the front of the cylinder. Actually, I think this is a new barrel, or perhaps a cut down barrel from a rifle, the front sight looks a lot like Winchester front sights.

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The hammer was cut off flat at the front and a new firing pin was mounted in the hammer.

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The cylinder is sleeved for the 32-20 round.

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I am really not sure of the origin of this cylinder. If it is an original, the rear where the nipples were has been machined off. The front has been relieved far back. But the locking slots are in the correct position to lock up with the bolt. If this was an original cylinder, and the rear had been machined off, the locking slots would no longer line up with the bolt. I am not sure what the story is with this cylinder.

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The top of the frame where the old sighting groove was has been welded up and a small rear sight added.

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No, I'm sorry to say I have not fired it. I discovered a hairline crack on the firing pin and I have been reluctant to fire it, for fear of breaking off the firing pin.




While we are on the subject of cartridge conversions, here is my Colt Richards Conversion and four original 44 Colt cartridges. Not the Richards-Mason conversion, that came a little bit later and had some changes that made it less expensive to produce than the Richards Conversion.

Prior to the Richards Conversion Colt made the Thuer Conversion. The Thuer Conversion was an attempt by Colt to circumvent the Rollin White patent on revolvers with cylinders bored through to accept cartridges. The Thuer Conversions used an odd cartridge that was tapered, narrower at the rear than at the front, and the chambers were tapered to accept this cartridge. It was thought that because the bored through chambers were not cylindrical in shape, but were tapered, Colt could get away with making them without being sued by Smith and Wesson. The Thuer Conversions were mostly built on the 1851 Navy Colt and 1860 Army Colts, but there were some rare ones built on the 36 Caliber Pocket Models, the 36 Caliber 1862 Police Models, and some very rare 31 Caliber 1849 Pocket Models. There were even a few non-factory Thuer Conversions built on the Walker and Dragoon Models. The White Patent expired in 1869, and the first Thuer Models were also made in 1869. Only about 5,000 Thuer Conversions were made, from 1869 until 1872, they never sold very well because of the strange, reverse tapered cartridges.

Charles B Richards was one of the best designers at the Colt factory. He came up with a system to convert existing stocks of Colt Cap & Ball revolvers to fire cartridges. Basically, the cylinders were cut down, removing the portions where the nipples went, and a conversion ring was added to the frame to take up the empty space where the nipples had been. The loading lever was removed and an ejector assembly was fitted in its place to eject spent brass.

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Completely disassembled, except I have not removed the ejector assembly because the screw holding it in place is too bunged up and I don't want to risk damaging the screw further.

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Here is the ejector assembly. It fits into the hole in the frame formerly occupied by the loading lever assembly. This was an expensive part to make, the later Richards-Mason Conversion used a simpler, and less expensive ejector assembly.

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The cylinder.

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A comparison of the Richards Conversion Cylinder and the cylinder from a modern Italian replica 1860 Army Cap & Ball revolver. The earliest Richards Conversion cylinders were made by cutting down original C&B cylinders. The nipple area of the cylinder was machined away. Then a new ratchet star was machined from what remained. Later Richards Conversions had new cylinders made up from scratch. I have not lettered this one, I should, but I believe this one has one of the cylinders made from scratch, rather than a cut down C&B cylinder. Two of the 44 Colt rounds are sitting in the cylinder.

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Frame.

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A Conversion Ring was added to the frame to take up the space of the missing nipple portion of the cylinder.

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A frame mounted, spring loaded firing pin, similar to a modern Ruger firing pin, was mounted in the Conversion Ring, and a raised rear sight was incorporated onto the top of the Conversion Ring. The front of the hammer was machined away forming a flat surface to strike the firing pin.

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A loading gate not too different from a SAA loading gate was mounted onto the Conversion Ring.

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The White Patent was due to expire in April of 1869, and it was felt there would be little possibility of it being renewed. The Thuer Conversions had not proved to be commercially successful, so Colt engineers were hard at work coming up with experimental designs to convert existing stocks of C&B revolvers to cartridges. Richards' first patent for a breech loading revolver was granted on August 18, 1868. Another patent was issued in July 1871. The final patent was issued on July 25, 1871.

In A Study Of Colt Conversions, and Other Percussion Revolvers, author Bruce McDowell states, "It is impossible to determine the exact date the Colt factory machinery started turning for the production of the Richards System, or the conversion of the Colt Model 1860 Army percussion revolvers to accept metallic cartridges". McDowell goes on to mention some letters from Army officials dated January 1871 inquiring about converting existing revolvers to fire cartridges. He states that an order was placed by the U.S. Ordnance Department to 'clean, repair, and alter or convert' 1000 revolvers on the last day of January, 1871. Colt records seem to indicate that by December 4, 1871 Colt had finished making the parts for that contract.

A table in McDowell's book seems to indicate that the majority of contracts for Richards Conversions had been completed by 1873, but a few were converted as late as 1880, long after the Single Action Army appeared in 1873.

The later Richards-Mason Conversion was a simpler conversion. The ejector rod mechanism of the Richards Conversion had been simplified, the frame mounted firing pin was eliminated in favor of a hammer mounted firing pin, and the Richards Conversion rear sight was eliminated in favor of a notch on the hammer nose, similar to the rear sights on most Colt percussion revolvers.
 
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Hey DJ. Yes different book. I'll try and post a pic or two. And I guess I missed the " importance " of the 6 firing pins (my mistake). I thought you were basically saying "2 piece" cyls weren't correct.




Mike
 
Howdy again

An aside about the 44 Colt cartridge.

Colt 1860 Army revolvers had rifling grooves about .451 in diameter. They were called '44' because at the time caliber was called out based on the size of the hole 'bored' through the barrel before rifling. After the rifling was cut, what remained of the original bore hole was the lands of the rifling. The original hole had been bored somewhere around .44 in diameter, hence these revolvers were referred to as 44 caliber revolvers. This is also why I never refer to 'bore diameter' of a barrel, I always say 'groove diameter'.

Anyway, once the rear of the cylinders of the 1860 Army revolvers had been machined away, chambers were cut all the way through, matching the original .451 diameter of the front of the chambers. Note: I have not been able to determine the exact rifling groove diameter of this revolver, because it has five rifling grooves. When slugged, measuring the rifling groove diameter of barrels with an odd number of grooves is a bit difficult, as opposed to measuring the groove diameter of a slug that came through a barrel with an even number of grooves. To make it more fun, this revolver has gain twist rifling. In the early days of Cap & Ball revolvers, gain twist rifling was used. The grooves started at the rear of the barrel straight in line with the bore. As the rifling progressed through the barrel the twist rate increased. It was thought this would prevent the soft lead projectile from being stripped from the rifling as it progressed down the barrel, instead the twist rate increased gradually to 'ease' the projectile into a good spin. Later, stripping the projectile proved to not be a problem, and gain twist rifling was abandoned and pretty much all rifling had a consistent twist rate through the entire length of the barrel.

Anyway (again) the cartridge devised for the Richards Conversion used a heeled bullet with the outside diameter the same as the chamber diameter. Somewhere around .451. Being a heeled bullet, the rear of the bullet was a narrower diameter, with the rear most portion inserted into the case and crimped in place. The brass case of the cartridge was designed around that bullet. Or, the bullet was designed around the case designed to fit into the chambers of the cylinder. Whichever you choose.

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Here are some heeled bullets I cast for my Richards Conversion. The brass is modern 44 Colt brass from Starline. Yes, it is smaller than 45 Colt brass. At the bottom of the photo you can see I have tentatively pushed the heel of one of the bullets into a piece of 44 Colt brass. Notice the outside of the case is the same diameter as the rear most driving band of the bullet.

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I discovered that modern Starline 44 Russian brass fits perfectly into the chambers of my Richards Conversion. So the thought is I will load my heeled bullets into 44 Russian brass (yes it is stained, all my Black Powder brass gets stained once it has been fired). The 44 Russian brass has less powder capacity than the 44 Colt brass, so I will feel better using the somewhat lighter loads in the chambers of my Richards Conversion with its very old iron, yes probably iron, cylinder. Unfortunately this project is on hold now, I had to have my mold opened up a tad to get the outside diameter large enough to fill the grooves of the revolver. When I ran my first bullets down the barrel they barely touched the rifling. Since having the mold ordered my doctor ordered me to stop casing bullets because the lead count in my blood is too high.

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Anyway, that's the story with the original 44 Colt cartridge. Incidentally, modern conversion cylinders for modern '44' caliber Cap & Ball replicas such as Ken Howell or Walt Kirst makes, are possible because rifling groove diameter of these revolvers is actually close to .451. So conversion cylinders chambered for 45 Colt (or 45 Schofield) are a perfect match for those barrels. Before I bought my first R&D cylinder I measured the rifling of my old EuroArms Remmie. As I recall it was .449. Close enough, I have never had a problem firing my Black Powder 45 Colt or 45 Schofield rounds through it with bullets sized to .452.
 
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The six shot R&D cylinder with its separate cap is not a historically accurate replica of a conversion cylinder. None of the old designs used a removable cap with separate firing pins.

Correct, however I have seen six shot cylinders for the Remington 1858 with a cap, documented..., the only difference between that design and the R&D design was the addition of the separate firing pins. No doubt R&D added the firing pins to the older design. The older design modified the hammer to add a single, fixed firing "pin" held in place with a screw, and thus the owner could remove the screw and pin, and replace the cap-n-ball cylinder and use the revolver as originally made.

LD
 
I’ve long wanted a Colt Richards and Mason. Even thought of going the Kirst route with one of my 1860’s. The expense just didn’t make sense, taking a cap gun and removing its percussion capabilities for center fire , may as well buy a new one from Uberti, which is on my bucket list.
My five other conversion cylinders make perfect sense as mentioned, now when the cold wind blows I can still enjoy several Single Action revolvers on the indoor range with smokeless loads. Colts, Remingtons. ROAs and Roger and Spenser’s. Nobodies chasing me, no competition. no need to worry which style loads or unloads faster, just do my thing, punch holes make nose and smoke. :)
Too dang bad the Colt 1851 Navy can’t be outfitted with one.
 
Correct, however I have seen six shot cylinders for the Remington 1858 with a cap, documented..., the only difference between that design and the R&D design was the addition of the separate firing pins. No doubt R&D added the firing pins to the older design. The older design modified the hammer to add a single, fixed firing "pin" held in place with a screw, and thus the owner could remove the screw and pin, and replace the cap-n-ball cylinder and use the revolver as originally made.

Howdy Again

That is incorrect. I have looked at dozens of photos of revolvers with conversion cylinders. Yes, there were single piece cylinders and two piece cylinders. But I have not seen a single photo of an original conversion revolver from the 19th Century with a removable firing pin that could be made back into a Cap & Ball revolver by removing the firing pin and putting the original Cap & Ball cylinder back in. On most of them, the hammer nose was permanently modified into a firing pin by cutting away some metal and perhaps welding a bit more on. I strongly suspect that during the time these revolvers were popular, nobody was interested in unconverting their revolver back into a Cap & Ball revolver. Metallic cartridges were the latest thing, and were easily available. Loading cartridges was quicker and more efficient than pouring powder into the chamber, seating a ball, and capping the nipple. That's why cartridge revolvers were developed in the first place. I suppose some gunsmith might have done such a thing on a one off basis, but none of the major manufacturers did so. I would love to see an example of such a conversion revolver with a removable firing pin designed to be unconverted back into a Cap & Ball revolver. Then I would readily admit I am wrong.

In the modern era, yes some revolvers with conversion cylinders can be made into a Cap & Ball revolver again. Nothing was done to the frame or hammer of my Remingtons, they are just as they were when they left the factory. If I wanted to, I could pop out the conversion cylinder and pop the C&B cylinder back in and it would be a Cap & Ball revolver again. That is part of the selling point for modern conversion cylinders. Not with the originals.

I took the liberty of photographing an illustration from Dennis Adler's book Metallic Cartridge Conversions.

This is the one example I have found of a Remington conversion that had a two piece cylinder and separate firing pins for each cylinder. If one looks closely at the inset photo, one can see the individual firing pins poking through the cylinder cap. As noted in the caption, this was an experimental model, not a production model. And as noted it is the same basic approach Ken Howell used when he made up his cylinders with separate firing pins in the cap. No idea if he knew of this experimental model or not. Sometimes great minds come up with great ideas without knowing it has been done before.

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I recall seeing two piece cylinders on antique revolvers up for auction with slots cut in the back plate over each chamber designed for rimfire cartridges.
 
I have the kirst conversions and I love them to me if you want a conversion ,what the cence of having one if you don't load them the way they were made to load,and yes u can go back and forty to black powder I have done it many times with out any problems at all
 
I have a Kirst for my Pietta 1858 Remington and a Howell for my Pietta 1860 Army.
I'm debating selling them - I've rather shoot loose BP in my C&B revolvers and cartridges in my cartridge guns.
 
DJ, you could be right.
I don't have any reference to fall back on besides other posters.
If you have any reference about the 1/2 degree chamber misalignment that would be helpful.
I don't know where some folks get their information, but it does end up getting repeated and accepted as fact without any solid reference.

rcflint stated that the offset was only 1/2 degree:

"Referring to an earlier reply, the angle of the chambers of the R&D cylinder is more correctly 1/2 degree, not 2 degrees. Its purpose is to clear the rims at the breech while the circle spacing at the throat matches the barrel. It has no affect on accuracy, and they are reported as the most accurate cowboy guns they own by many shooters." --->>> [See Post #20] https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/1858-conversion-cylinders.536268/#post-7338755
DJ, you could be right.
I don't have any reference to fall back on besides other posters.
If you have any reference about the 1/2 degree chamber misalignment that would be helpful.
I don't know where some folks get their information, but it does end up getting repeated and accepted as fact without any solid reference.

An example is Oye's post where he stated:

"On the R and D cylinder the 2 degrees refers to the rear of the cartridge. On the cylinder
lined up with the barrel, the bullet will enter the barrel nose down 2 degrees. Side to side
should line up. The firing pins should be centered side to side. If they are not done this way, the cartridge rims will overlap on the 45 long colt. It's claimed not to affect accuracy ( of course it affects accuracy). Keep in mind you are a slamming a .451 - .452 bullet down a barrel that's designed
for a bullet that was sized in the cylinder about .445 to .447. Good lube is the key on the leading. 250 gr. bullets will be more prone to leading than 200 gr. I hope the explanation on the 2 degree offset is clear." --->>> [See Post #6] https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...n-1858-with-r-d-cylinder.512891/#post-6372032

rcflint stated that the offset was only 1/2 degree:

"Referring to an earlier reply, the angle of the chambers of the R&D cylinder is more correctly 1/2 degree, not 2 degrees. Its purpose is to clear the rims at the breech while the circle spacing at the throat matches the barrel. It has no affect on accuracy, and they are reported as the most accurate cowboy guns they own by many shooters." --->>> [See Post #20] https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/1858-conversion-cylinders.536268/#post-7338755

You guys are a little off on your measurements, Here is a quote from the original Patent.

"The chambers of the conversion cylinder assembly are sloped so that the centerline of each chamber is spaced from the centerline of the cylinder by a distance of 0.516 inches at the rear of the cylinder while maintaining the original 0.490 inch spacing at the front of the cylinder."

Using these dimensions the true angle would be 0.9311 degrees. Definitely more than the stated "less than 1/2 degree".

AntiqueSledMan.
 
One reason for a conversion cylinder is that in some areas it is hard to find a place to shoot blackpowder. So if you have a conversion cylinder you can shoot that gun at the indoor ranges to get a little use on it.
 
You guys are a little off on your measurements, Here is a quote from the original Patent.

"The chambers of the conversion cylinder assembly are sloped so that the centerline of each chamber is spaced from the centerline of the cylinder by a distance of 0.516 inches at the rear of the cylinder while maintaining the original 0.490 inch spacing at the front of the cylinder."

Using these dimensions the true angle would be 0.9311 degrees. Definitely more than the stated "less than 1/2 degree".

AntiqueSledMan.


Thanks for that. Do you have a reference I can look up for the original patent?

I am going to have to take your work for it on the angle, my trig skills never were that good. I used to be able to work out angles in AutoCad, but my license for that expired a long time ago.

So for now, I am going to stop talking about less than 1/2 of one degree and will instead say slightly less than 1 degree.
 
One reason for a conversion cylinder is that in some areas it is hard to find a place to shoot blackpowder. So if you have a conversion cylinder you can shoot that gun at the indoor ranges to get a little use on it.


Bingo!

Mike
 
You guys are a little off on your measurements, Here is a quote from the original Patent.

"The chambers of the conversion cylinder assembly are sloped so that the centerline of each chamber is spaced from the centerline of the cylinder by a distance of 0.516 inches at the rear of the cylinder while maintaining the original 0.490 inch spacing at the front of the cylinder."

Using these dimensions the true angle would be 0.9311 degrees. Definitely more than the stated "less than 1/2 degree".

AntiqueSledMan.

It took years to get an answer but it's nice to know and well worth the wait.

That's almost double the 1/2 degree and about 1/2 of the 2 degrees, which shows that there's always room for a compromise when it's the truth.
Thank you very much AntiqueSledMan for doing the math, and kudos to THR for informing the world. ;)
 
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I got a 6 shot .45lc for my 58 remmy clone and ordered a cylinder for my 51 colt clone in the same cal.
A yesterday when it showed up, it was a 5 shot .45lc

Any thoughts on which is better, or which you perfure?
I would never buy a conversion cylinder for what i use my revolver. In conversion you load 4 cartridges for safe carry, in original cap and ball you load 6 with trigger on safety notch. 6 beat 4 any time. ofcourse, depend on what fore you use your gun. My cap and ball revolver are so reliable that i would never change them for modern. If you know how to handle them they never let you down. Only thing with cap and ball is that you must load them with fresh load every month if you always carry them- to be shore they never misfire.
 
I would never buy a conversion cylinder for what i use my revolver. In conversion you load 4 cartridges for safe carry, in original cap and ball you load 6 with trigger on safety notch. 6 beat 4 any time. ofcourse, depend on what fore you use your gun. My cap and ball revolver are so reliable that i would never change them for modern. If you know how to handle them they never let you down. Only thing with cap and ball is that you must load them with fresh load every month if you always carry them- to be shore they never misfire.

My conversion cylinders have six chambers. So I can load five with the hammer down on an empty chamber. See the photos early in this thread.

It is NEVER safe to carry a traditional single action revolver, whether a cartridge revolver or a Cap & Ball, with the trigger in the safety notch and a live round under the hammer. Here is a photo of the lockwork of a Colt. The lower arrow points to the tip of the trigger called the sear. The upper arrow points to the 'safety notch' on the hammer. Notice how thin the sear is. Drop the gun on its hammer and the sear will very likely break off and allow the firing pin to strike a round under the chamber hard enough to fire it. As a matter of fact, last time I looked most C&B revolvers don't even have a 'safety notch' on the hammer.

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Regarding reloading every month, please explain why so many original C&B revolvers have been found hidden away in barns for over 100 years, and when the caps are replaced with fresh caps, they fire when the trigger is pulled.
 
Some folks are bound and determined to carry six rounds. Whether they roll the dice with the safety notch or lower the hammer between chambers. Not a risk I would ever take. Not worth it.
 
My conversion cylinders have six chambers. So I can load five with the hammer down on an empty chamber. See the photos early in this thread.

It is NEVER safe to carry a traditional single action revolver, whether a cartridge revolver or a Cap & Ball, with the trigger in the safety notch and a live round under the hammer. Here is a photo of the lockwork of a Colt. The lower arrow points to the tip of the trigger called the sear. The upper arrow points to the 'safety notch' on the hammer. Notice how thin the sear is. Drop the gun on its hammer and the sear will very likely break off and allow the firing pin to strike a round under the chamber hard enough to fire it. As a matter of fact, last time I looked most C&B revolvers don't even have a 'safety notch' on the hammer.

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Regarding reloading every month, please explain why so many original C&B revolvers have been found hidden away in barns for over 100 years, and when the caps are replaced with fresh caps, they fire when the trigger is pulled.
yes- when they replace old caps they go off- but i talking about situations where you have to carry it to be always relable. Ok, you can change only caps every month if you want. if is loaded for two month with everyday carry atleast one cap wont go off after that becouse of atleast human moisture.
hamer between caps with all six load work for me, ofcourse, if gun dont have it is a different story.
i dont want to argue, i just give my opinion and i live in country where c&b revolver is anything that i can have. Living in the woods and country with such gun laws make me environment like in old west- i live with my gun and it saved me lots of times against wolf and bears- winter or summer, rain, sun or snow. To me is life and death to know how to trust my gun. One mistake here and you gone.
 
I think the only time one would load all 6 chambers on a cap & ball would be if one was a soldier during the Civil War. Having all 6 chambers loaded might be more important than the safety factor of carrying on the empty.

IRC, one Confederate maker of Colt 1851 copies requested the safety pins be put in due to this reasoning.
 
Tommygunn, if you're shooting a cap and ball with a cap and ball, with the Remington there's a slot between the cylinders to rest the hammer and then all six cylinders could be kept loaded. This may not be true with a conversion gun, but shooting them the way they were intended I would feel perfectly safe with all six loaded. I've only owned the 1858 Remingtons, so that's all I can comment on.
 
IIRC, one Confederate maker of Colt 1851 copies requested the safety pins be put in due to this reasoning.

I would like to know which Confederate manufacturer you are alluding to, and who they were requesting this service from. The Confederate manufacturers ignored any Union patents, to include the 12-stop-slot cylinder patented by Manhattan Arms in 1856. Sam Colt would have loved to re-engineer his revolvers to include this safety system/feature, but that did not stop Augusta Machine works or Rigdon & Ansley from producing said cylinders for their revolvers. Leech & Rigdon (predecessor of R&A) had Colt-type safety pins until ~SN 1100 when Leech left the company. Rigdon then produced the remaining revolvers for the Confederate contract of 1500 revolvers with and without safety pins, and then went to the 12-stop-slot arrangement after ~SN 1500. Both R&A and AMW were both located in Columbus or Augusta GA at the time and it is speculated that they shared facilities at some point.

Griswold & Gunnison manufactured all 3600+ of their revolvers with safety pins.

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Regards,

Jim
 
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Tommygunn, if you're shooting a cap and ball with a cap and ball, with the Remington there's a slot between the cylinders to rest the hammer and then all six cylinders could be kept loaded. This may not be true with a conversion gun, but shooting them the way they were intended I would feel perfectly safe with all six loaded. I've only owned the 1858 Remingtons, so that's all I can comment on.

I have both Colt & Remington revolvers and, yes, Remington has the slots (as do a few other similar revolvers), but it is still good safety practice with them to carry them with an empty chamber under the hammer. The Civil War ended in 1865 ..... and I'd like to think people needing real guns for self defense would employ modern firearms (yes I know some peple have legal complications).
 
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