You're carrying and the store detector goes off

[GuyWithQuestions]

I have had this happen quite a few times in my lifetime, but not since I've had my concealed firearms permit. About 6 years ago I bought a wallet and it had one of those things inside of it that makes those store beeping things go off that are often at the front entrances. Apparently, the wallet hadn't been deactivated and I didn't realize it was inside nor that it was what made those store detectors go off. So, I had to just live with that annoyance for a couple of months until I figured out what was going on. Quite a few times store workers would be like, "Okay, let's see your pockets," and I just got used to it. Eventually after a few months, I was leaving Barnes n Noble and a store worker found out that it was my wallet and said that I was going to continue to have problems until I deactivated it and did so for me. After that I didn't have problems, but every once in a while you see someone leaving a store with those things going off and the customer shows a worker that they're innocent.

Since then I got my concealed firearms permit. I was wondering lately, what do you if one of those things go off and a store worker wants you to show that you're not stealing anything? The store worker is going to be alarmed if they find a sidearm on you because most people out there automatically think that any non-LEO with a handgun in public is automatically a criminal. It's probably best that not everyone gets alarmed and then the police are called, even if you do have the permit.

 

[nerfsrule2]

If it was me and I had to show them under my shirt(I carry with a shoulder holster), I would first show them my C&C permit before revealing the presence of my pistol.

 

[SteyrAUG]

I would simply hand them my purchases and make them figure out what was beeping. I would NOT consent to a seach since I haven't stolen anything.

This is their problem, not mine. I don't feel I should be unecessarily inconvenienced by their problem. You guys would do well to remember they are security guards, not cops. You are not under arrest, you are cooperating with them.

 

[FireArmFan]

It is my understanding that if the detectors go off you have no obligation to stop. This was discussed on here a long time ago. A lot of people just said "keep on walking." I would probably stop but I wouldn't lift my shirt up, just empty my pockets. If it got to the point where they insisted I lift my shirt up so they could search me, I would probably have them call the police and wait until they get there. I don't think the store workers have the right to search you. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Jorg Nysgerrig]

It baffles me that people seem to have such a problem with this. I've only had an alarm go off two or three times. Usually with someone standing there to check the bags. I just stopped and stuck the bag through by itself to see if it goes off again. Then the guy usually looks at the bag and the receipt then says, "It was probably this, sometimes they don't deactivate right." and I'm on my way. It doesn't seem like a terrible complicated process. If one was unfortunate enough to have something like a wallet that set it off, I don't think it would take more than a couple of times to figure out something was wrong and to quickly, through the process of elimination, identify the offending object.

As far as whether they can stop you, that depends on state law. Some states give merchants the right to stop and some don't. Either way, it isn't rocket science. If something in the bag is setting it off, all they need to do is check the receipt vs. what in the bag and you're done. You'd spend more time arguing with them about it then to simply clear it up. I certainly don't consider someone asking to see a receipt a big deal. I suppose I'm just too polite for my own good. Stores have property rights, too. Then again, one certainly does seem to be a bad-ass when they just march right out those doors. Who is some lowly store employee to ask to see their receipt?

However, I'm sure someone will be along in a moment to declare how those sensors are detrimental to liberty and all shopkeepers will be the first against the wall when the revolution comes. Of course, the real answer is to simply shop elsewhere.

 

[Raijin]

in my experience, most employees don't give 2 thoughts when the alarm goes off.

so just keep walking. once you're out of the store, theres nothing they can do.

 

[David904]

I ran into one incident at a Best Buy.

I was leaving with one of my son's in tow when the alarm went off. The loss prevention guy stopped me and asked to see my bag and receipt. I complied and he noticed a slight bulge under my shirt.

He then inquired about what I had stuffed in my clothes. I rather pointedly looked at him and told him exactly what it was. And if he wanted to have the police come down for nothing (as I had stolen nothing), I would produce my CCW credentials to an LEO away from public scrutiny. Otherwise, he was going to have to take my word for it.

His eyes got kind of wide and then he chuckled. He said he believed me and have a nice day. All in all, it was not a particularly bad incident. He was being rather officious and blunt, but not rude. I responded with blunt honesty and courtesy. No feelings were hurt and I shop there to this day.

 

[Travis Lee]

If some one expects to detain me because of some gizmo going beep, they had better be calling police right now.

Think how a video recording of showing your pistol looks.
Easy brandishing charge.

I'm not showing my carry permit to anyone but a police officer, and not showing my pistol to anyone either, and opening myself up for a brandishing charge.

Not going in a back room, either.

I'll discuss it with the manager, and responding police.


--Travis--

 

[h0ss]

I used to work in wal-mart. If i am not mistaken, not only do they not have the right to search you, but when that beeper goes off for merchandise that wasn't deactivated, you DO NOT have to stop. If you notice, the automated alarm is something like "Please step back and an associate will help you. Thank you." It is a request, not an order. I dont even stop anymore because i dont have to. I know that i am not a thief, i dont have to prove it.

Oh yeah, and i dont know if it has changed or varies from state to state, but even if a wal-mart employee suspects that you might be a thief, they have to WITNESS you place something into your pockets, and NOT take their eyes off of you the whole way through the store until you exit the building, and even then i dont think they are technically (legally) allowed to grab you or restrain you.

Bottom line, its their fault for not deactivating their inventory control sticker things. Dont stop for them anymore.

 

[JasonblkZ06]

I always keep walking even if they start raising their voices. If they try anything (they won't) it's lawsuit time.

 

[B yond]

I wouldn't stop. If they tried to stop me I'd tell them to call the police if they're that worried about it, but i wouldn't wait around for them to show up. I absolutely would not show them my weapon, tell them I had one, show them my CCW card, or empty my pockets. Innocent until proved guilty, remember?

Private security has no right to detain or search me. I can choose not to comply.

 

[chaim]

The law on this stuff must be state specific. I worked retail for several years and when I worked at a major department store (one branch as a clerk, another as a manager) if you set off the detector and didn't stop when asked and security was nearby it just might result in your being tackled by security, cuffed, and dragged to the security office where you were detained and questioned until police arrived. Of course, usually when security did this they had been watching the person for some time, I wasn't security so I don't know for sure what their requirements are- it is possible that the only people I saw them do this with were people whom they had already witnessed taking merchandise (in person or on the security cameras). However, I saw this pretty regularly during my time working there (a couple times a week to nearly every day at some times to once or twice a month on slower times) so it is a possibility (at least in MD).

 

[AZ Husker]

I worked off-duty for a major retail outlet. The worst problems they experienced was when they tried to maintain their own security force. The false-arrest lawsuits killed them. Anyone could be a "loss prevention specialist". No training, no background checks, basically a "store bouncer". Once they were smart enough to hire off-duty LEO's, their problems stopped, and their arrest records skyrocketed.

 

[BlackBearME]

it just might result in your being tackled by security, cuffed, and dragged to the security office where you were detained and questioned until police arrived.

That's asking for a helluva fight (I don't like being tackled) and a whole bunch of lawsuitilarity.

Once they were smart enough to hire off-duty LEO's, their problems stopped, and their arrest records skyrocketed.

Now see, that's not so bad. A sworn law enforcement officer who actually has arrest power, yeah, that's fine. It's the law. Random guy put at the RF towers? No, that's gonna be a problem.

Now, i'm not saying I'm not necessarily going to comply. Usually, if I know I bought something electronic that they likely didn't deactivate, I stop for a second to let them check it out. Most often when I stop at Wal-Mart, no one even shows up. At BB/Circuit City, I usually take two seconds, because I know it's probably not me (I woulda set it off on the way in, no?)

Merchants do have the right to detain people for a short people of time, if they have reasonable suspicion, and that's fine. If I were a merchant, I'd want this power to, and I want them to be able to keep costs down.

No need to be a jerk about it, but no, I'm not showing off my carry piece in public, and I'm not going in private without an LEO there - not giving them a chance to frame me.

 

[Kentak]

I worked for Home Depot for a few years a while back. I don't know the details of what was observed and by whom, but I saw one incident in which several employees (management and loss prevention) took off after a customer out the front entrance and returned with the customer in handcuffs a few moments later. It was not the store employees who left in the police car later.

Now, this is not the same thing as the door beeper going off. It's pretty obvious this guy had been under surveillance by loss prevention in person or on camera. I don't know what the law is regarding the store's options when a customer fails to stop merely because he or she is asked to do so due to a door beeper. On the rare occasions it's happened to me, I show them my bag and receipt and they find something that wasn't deactivated or they wave me through. It's no big deal. A lot of times this happens when customers use the self-checkout lanes. If you don't swipe an item with the sensor close enough to the magnet embedded near the scanner, it won't deactivate. Cashiers are more careful to do so.

K

 

[230RN]

It's happened twice since I had my license.

I just stopped at the detector, backed up, and looked at one of the clerks questioningly.

They waved me through.

My plan, if actually approached by store personnel, will be to allow them to search my packages but if they want to search my person, tell them that they will have to call a commissioned peace officer and then I will shut up. If they do actually call (which I doubt), I will simply show my license to the officer and explain that I did not want them to discover the gun, and apologize for the inconvenience. "I'm sure you can understand, Officer."

However, as we all know, plans only survive until the moment they are implemented.

In my view, there's no sense gettin' all stiffnecked and self-righteous about being questioned at the exits.

 

[neby98]

I'd just keep walking unless someone stopped me, first and second, I wouldn't worry about it, if you haven't stolen anything, and things go south you might actually walk away from the situation with a nice check from the company. Seriously though I wouldn't worry because they've been watching from the moment you entered the store to the time the alarm went off.

 

[CajunBass]

I'm with Jorg. What's the big deal? If the beeper goes off, it's because of something in the bag. Let them look, they'll find it, and do whatever they have to do to make it stop. Or just keep walking. You think the greeter is going to chase you halfway across the parking lot and make a flying tackle? It's a Wal-Mart, not Checkpoint Charlie.

 

[GlowinPontiac]

I would never consent to letting a store employee search me. Its THEIR problem that THEY forgot to deactivate THEIR security tags. Ive had this happen many times at wal mart and even had their LP associate follow me out to my car demanding that i stop and let him search me and my bags. he even went so far as to stand behind my car to prevent me from leaving even after i held up my reciept for him to see. he went back inside really quick after i grabbed my cell phone and told him i was calling the police.

from that day on i dont stop at any store if the alarm goes off. they should learn to teach their cashiers to deactivate the tags.

 

[mekender]

a store has no right to search any part of my bag or person without a police officer there... every 2nd or 3rd trip to walmart, the idiot cashier forgets to swipe the tag off for a DVD or some such... i just keep on walking... never have had a problem... once i pay for the merchandise, it is my property, they have no right to search my personal property or my person...

i dont even enjoy the whole reciept checker thing at costco, but i smile and play along cus everything is easily visible in the cart already...

but if they want to search my person, they better be calling a cop to do it... actually i relish the day that a wal-mart store employee accuses me of theft.... my lawyer would probably be at the store before the cops were...

as for a security guard tackling me... boy id love that legal fight...

 

[dralarms]

I approach this a little differently, I "swing" the bag, or push the buggy through before I enter. If the stupid thing goes off I give the front door idiot a look of disgust and ask them why their people can't deactivate the things properly. I also tell them they need to do a better job because I am tired of this happening every time (not really but gets the point across) I come it their store. My point is I'm not a thief and don't appreciate their inability to do their job correctly to inconvenience me.

I look at it this way, I am not a thief and am not going to be treated as one, they can get off their rears and find the article in my bag that is doing it and let me on my way.

Try it, you will be surprised how much better their attitude is when they are on the defensive.

 

[NoScreenName]

It is state specific...

I worked retail many many moons ago and talked with the few LP guys on the subject.

In Nevada, (check your own state laws, don't listen to me...) when Lp stops and detains you, it is in effect a citizen's arrest. They actually had to physically witness you stealing an item and could only detain you once you left the store. Those are the two kicker, must have incidents here. Witness the theft, leave the store... until you leave the doors of the store it is not a crime.

If they do not see you take any item, they cannot detain you. Legally that is. They could however follow you out of the store and if they saw an item from the store in plain sight, could request that you produce a receipt for it and even detain you but they had to be sure you did not purchase the item(ie: having watched you on the CCTV cameras and know exactly what you did purchase if anything).


If you don't comply with a check after the beeping detectors go off, they can in effect blackball you but I believe they have to inform you that you are not allowed in the store any longer and then only in the future they can call the police for a trespass. In most cases they do keep a fairly extensive database of names and faces on the no go list.

Aside from that... not much else they can legally do. Definitely not search your person.


Although.. in my experience... some LP guys are wannabe ninja cops and waaaay overzealous. So it is possible that you could be detained, tackled, searched, etc... but that would be a big lawsuit waiting to happen IMO, so management would probably not allow it. Best to get them involved before even mentioning anything about a weapon IMO.



I have always worried about the same situation... and my solution would be to consent to a bag search/receipt check and if that wasn't good enough, request a manager and cite the law to them and ask if anyone witnessed me taking anything and since the answer would be no, I would then advise I was leaving and if they would not allow that then I would be the one to call the police for false imprisonment/false arrest.


I would check the law. It is worth knowing.

 

[rocket lad]

Google came up empty with 'merchant right to search'. Know of a decent legal resource for those laws?

 

[NoScreenName]

Check your state statutes. Usually the state legislature page has a link.

 

[30 cal slob]

they go off so frequently they're like car alarms.

usually ignored.

once in a blue moon i'll be asked for a receipt, but that's it. i've never been asked to raise my shirt, etc.