You're carrying and the store detector goes off

[geekWithA.45]

When the theft alarm goes off, I wave to the nearest cashier, preferably the one I just gave money to who forgot to deactivate the tag, without breaking my stride.

I'm not too worried about store "detectives", whose search ability is limited to bags and parcels discovering my sidearm. No, they can NOT see what's in my pockets, and no, they may NOT pat me down. If they insist on anything like that, I'll insist on a -real- cop who knows the score and how to deal with it without getting into a state of PPH.

 

[Old Fuff]

If the store wasn't posted, and my gun was discovered (by whoever) I'd produce my license - if I hadn't done so already. That's what a license/permit is for, and I wouldn't be breaking any law.

If the store was posted I wouldn't be there. I'd be spending my money somewhere else.

 

[redneckrepairs]

I dont steal , and i choose not to stop when one of them suckers goes off , i go on my merry way to my car . LP guys can ask me to stop but cannot command it . If actual LE is on scene and questions me i announce my ccw and hand the nice officer the reciept asking him to assist the store personell in inspecting my basket , all right where i was contacted . Its not embarassing to me as it is to the store with my mouth running lol .

 

[fletcher]

I worked for Home Depot for a few years a while back. I don't know the details of what was observed and by whom, but I saw one incident in which several employees (management and loss prevention) took off after a customer out the front entrance and returned with the customer in handcuffs a few moments later.

I noticed the security guards at the local Target (who look more like male models, IMO) carry handcuffs. Makes me lol every time I see them.

 

[Clipper]

Up here if LP lays a hand on you, they better find stolen goods on you or it's lawsuit time. And the idea of LP tackling me in the parking lot brings to mind images of ambulances and Life Flight for the tacklers...

 

[rocket lad]

And the idea of LP tackling me in the parking lot brings to mind images of ambulances and Life Flight for the tacklers...

This is pretty much how I feel about it.

 

[redneckrepairs]

folks LP weenies wont get me tackled , tho the ambulance ect.. is a possibility . I wont lay hands on them unless and untill they try it on me . I also wont pay much attention to their desires . I am an old redneck and have a real low BS threshold when it comes to folks stepping beyond polite behaviors.

 

[jimmyraythomason]

It seems to me,not stopping when the beeper went off is what started the OP's problems to begin with. Obviously not having the gizmo in the wallet de-activated resulted in repeat beepings with no clue that the offending item was brought into the store by the OP. Always stop,find the offending item and have it de-activated. It will save future problems.

 

[jamz]

Clearly the best idea is to deploy your gun as soon as the alarm goes off, wave it around high in the air so everyone can see it, preventing any surprises. Then tell them that they are welcome in your pockets now, accentuating this with several pelvic thrusts, to make it extra clear.

 

[redneckrepairs]

Clearly the best idea is to deploy your gun as soon as the alarm goes off, wave it around high in the air so everyone can see it, preventing any surprises. Then tell them that they are welcome in your pockets now, accentuating this with several pelvic thrusts, to make it extra clear.

how insightful thanks for the advise .

 

[strat81]

Clearly the best idea is to deploy your gun as soon as the alarm goes off, wave it around high in the air so everyone can see it, preventing any surprises. Then tell them that they are welcome in your pockets now, accentuating this with several pelvic thrusts, to make it extra clear.

ROFL!

I wish I knew what management team instructs their LP folks to tackle people. As others have said, that seems like a good way to get sued, arrested for assault, and possibly shot.

Every retail place I worked at, I was told get a good description, memorize the plate number if possible, and leave them alone. Nothing in the store is worth getting hurt over (or worse).


As for the statute in Nebraska:
http://uniweb.legislature.ne.gov/LegalDocs/view.php?page=s2904002001

Section 29-402.01
Shoplifters; detention; no criminal or civil liability.

A peace officer, a merchant, or a merchant's employee who has probable cause for believing that goods held for sale by the merchant have been unlawfully taken by a person and that he can recover them by taking the person into custody may, for the purpose of attempting to effect such recovery, take the person into custody and detain him in a reasonable manner for a reasonable length of time. Such taking into custody and detention by a peace officer, merchant, or merchant's employee shall not render such peace officer, merchant, or merchant's employee criminally or civilly liable for slander, libel, false arrest, false imprisonment, or unlawful detention.

Source:

Laws 1957, c. 101, § 1, p. 361

Laws 1963, c. 157, § 1, p. 556

Annotations:

Where the detention of a suspected shoplifter was unreasonable because it continued after the detainers knew their suspicions were groundless and that they had made a mistake, merchant held not protected under this section. Latek v. K Mart Corp., 224 Neb. 807, 401 N.W.2d 503 (1987).

The words "a merchant's employee" do not include a merchant's agent who is not an employee. Bishop v. Bockoven, Inc., 199 Neb. 613, 260 N.W.2d 488 (1977).

A telephone alert between cooperating store managers advising the location of one suspected of previous shoplifting does not constitute a civil conspiracy against the suspect. Dangberg v. Sears Roebuck & Co., 198 Neb. 234, 252 N.W.2d 168 (1977).

Instruction defining arrest in almost verbatim language of 5 Am.Jur., Arrest, was proper. Schmidt v. Richman Gordman, Inc., 191 Neb. 345, 215 N.W.2d 105 (1974).

So, with that being the case in Nebraska, it seems it might be prudent to insist on having a LEO present so you are not accused of brandishing (assault, terroristic threats, etc etc) if you move your shirt and (accidentally) reveal a handgun.

 

[revamp]

As a new member of the forums and a new interest in preserving my right to own firearms, I'm a little confused by the direction of this thread.

It's my understanding that the main reason for justifying CCW is an individual's right and responsibility to protect life and property. Owning firearms in general is clearly a 2nd Amendment issue, but the CCW fight is about a right to self-defense. Am I off?

If my understanding is correct, why all the tough-guy strutting and posturing and "I'll walk right through without pausing...if they detain me I'll release the lawyers!" talk? Are you going to say that while you have the right to carry a weapon to protect your life/property, but you will deny a shop owner that same personal responsibility to protect their property through reasonable methods?

Personally, I am sick of having to pay more and more at the stores because shoplifting is such an issue. My favorite local grocery store (as an example) closed after being in business for just 2 years due to shoplifting. Now, don't get me wrong...they day I'm detained and patted down will be the last day I would shop at that store, but if the warning goes off, I don't think that pausing and waiting for an employee to check your bags, etc is too much to ask. It is, after all, their store and their merchandise and I don't blame them for undertaking any lawful methods available to them to discourage and/or catch shoplifters.

 

[redneckrepairs]

A peace officer, a merchant, or a merchant's employee who has probable cause for believing that goods held for sale by the merchant have been unlawfully taken by a person and that he can recover them by taking the person into custody

I wouldnt think that the " bad guy beeper " would rise to probable cause without supporting observations . Now if a lp saw a person secrete an item , say in a pocket , followed the person thro checkout observing the person pay for other items but not that one , or bypass checkout and leave then the beeper confirms the observations . It does not imho tho ( by its self ) with the state of training on checkout and the common knowledge of missed items even rise to the level of reasonable suspicion in a court of law .

 

[redneckrepairs]

f my understanding is correct, why all the tough-guy strutting and posturing and "I'll walk right through without pausing...if they detain me I'll release the lawyers!" talk? Are you going to say that while you have the right to carry a weapon to protect your life/property, but you will deny a shop owner that same personal responsibility to protect their property through reasonable methods?

Revamp understanding you are

a new member of the forums

I have to respectfully suggest to you that ccw is in no way about protecting anyones property . Not mine , not your , and certainly not any stores. Store employees as a rule do not have a right to detain anyone for any reason that someone walking down a sidewalk wouldnt have the same right . They are not Law enforcement , and cannot act as such .
I personally am not a tough guy , and dont look for a squabble , but i wont wait for the store to decide i did not steal anything when i know i did not . If they want to call a cop that is fine i am more than glad to take time for the officer and assist in any way for him to clear the call in a timely and pleasant fashion .
However if some overinflated store employee puts hands on me i will treat him just like i would a drunk in a bar and then i will go after the store for vicarious liability and failure to train . Le has my respect , cheap stores who pay minimum wage to employees and screw up get what they deserve .

 

[distortion9]

Just as a heads up...

If you want to avoid tripping the alarm and if you buy your cloths from "Old Navy", when you get home, make sure you turn those clothes inside-out and inspect them.

I was setting alarms off like crazy and had no idea why. One day I was doing my laundry and discovered these "hard tags" sewn to the seams. They look like washing instruction or size/material tags but are MUCH more stiff (had to use my SOG to cut them off, they were too tough for my scissors).

Tripping the alarm with something you bought and the cashier forgot to deactivate is one thing but, these "tags" would be more difficult to explain..especially if you had no idea where they are.

 

[cyclist]

If you're really worried about it then just go in the out door. If the alarm goes off just turn around and leave while looking perplexed and checking your shirt pocket.

 

[redneckrepairs]

If you're really worried about it then just go in the out door. If the alarm goes off just turn around and leave while looking perplexed and checking your shirt pocket.

ROFLMAO not only humorous but the best strictly on topic advise on the thread yet . Thanks cyclist .

 

[iiibdsiil]

Hell, if they want me to pull up my shirt and expose my gun, so be it. It's my right to carry, and they can kiss my butt if they have a problem with it. If I want to shop at the store, then I should respect their desires to stop theft. No one is forcing me to shop there, and I don't feel I have a right to shop there, it's a privilege that the store owner gives to me.

 

[redneckrepairs]

If I want to shop at the store, then I should respect their desires to stop theft.

I do exactly this by not putting things in my pockets lol .

 

[The Unknown User]

From what I understand:

- They can detain you if they have probable cause.
- They can't detain you if they do not have probable cause.

I've been instructed to:

- Never go into a back room

I've also been told:

- They can't stop you if you haven't done anything wrong
- If they do stop you for theft, they're supposed to tell you what stolen item(s) you have, and where those items are located in your possession (i.e. "You have a candy bar in your right front pocket")

Note: I'm not a lawyer.

 

[Citroen]

Since the EAS units posted at the doors are not metal detectors, they will not alert due to your gun (unless your gun, your holster or your carry belt has a tag that was not deactivated), you can bet that something you purchased was not detactivated. I stop, and if someone is there to check, I offer the bag(s) to them to check. Why not? I know how the system works and am working in that field.

I know of NO retail store that instructs their personnel to physically detain anyone UNLESS they have met the state legal test of shoplifting. That requires an observation of willfull concealment; continuious view of the subject (to ensure they have not removed the concealed item) and observe the subject pass the cash register area. Store exiting is NOT a requirement in North Carolina - just willfull concealment.

The major retailers, however, have their hands full with the organized retail crime groups that actually load things like flat screen TVs onto carts and push them out the door. The professional boosters hit them hard and the costs go right into the retail prices.

Honest customers and cashier mistakes are not their normal focus.

John
Charlotte, NC

 

[Lichter]

I just keep walking when a alarm goes off or they ask to see my receipt. The store is only justified in stopping you if you have actually stolen something. If they physically stop you and restrain you and you're innocent then you can sue them for false arrest.

 

[bobaloo]

There have been some interesting court cases over this.

As one of the prior posters said, "those things go off all the time." In fact, they go off so often, that courts have often found that their going off does NOT constitute probable cause to believe someone has stolen something, hence the mere fact that the beeper goes off does not give the store the right to detain or search you.

Personally, I just keep walking, haven't had any issues as the store employees also know that the alarms are worthless.

 

[Kacerdias]

The alarm beeps on me occasionally and it has always been because of a security tag that the cashier forgot to deactivate. A perplexed look and a friendly wave to the cashier has worked every time. There really is no need to be hostile towards the merchant. They are simply trying to protect their property rights and I would do the same if I were in the retail business.

In the few circumstances that the alarm goes off and I can't see the cashier, I've stopped and walked to the nearest employee with bag and receipt in hand. That isn't the behaviour of a thief and shows that I'm not taking what isn't paid for. In the unlikely event that I encounter a hotshot "loss prevention specialist" who wants to detain and search me - courtesy and respect go a long way and so will a pleasant "No sir, you may call the police if you like. I'll wait right here." Part of the responsibility of carrying a firearm means avoiding hostile confrontation. Take the High Road in life.

 

[Mainsail]

Quite a few times store workers would be like, "Okay, let's see your pockets,"

"Uh...no, that is against my policy."
"OK, but I will be fishing around in your pockets at the same time."

It always amazes me how easily some presumed authority will cause people to sacrifice their privacy rights.