zip gun laws and building your own

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John E.

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Hey all,

The build-your-own-AK thread got me wondering - in States like Texas which prohibit the manufacture of 'zip guns', how does that apply to building your own gun for personal use?

According to Texas statute:

§46.01.(16) a zip gun is "a device or combination of devices that was not originally a firearm and is adapted to expel a projectile through a smooth-bore barrel by using the energy generated by an explosion or burning substance."

§46.05 of the Texas Penal Code it is a crime to intentionally or knowingly possess, manufacture, transport, repair or sell a zip gun. §46.05(a)(9).
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I'm not sure where the confusion is.

A zip gun is where you make a mortar out of an old water heater.

A zip gun is where you make a 'gun' out of water pipe.

If you're "building your own gun", obviously it will "originally be a firearm".
 
I guess what I'm asking is if you take raw materials and machine out a gun from scratch, is it a zip gun or a legal firearm and what makes the difference?
 
A zip gun is a slang term. Kind of refers to making a 22 out of a pen and a rubber band which would be illegal under NFA definitions. It would be considered an AOW I believe.

If you build a gun that adheres to all proper rules and regulations such as a receiver that has an 18 inch barrel, a stock, and so on, then that would be legal. But you can't build a gun that doesn't look like a gun (AOW) or would be considered something like a SBR.

That is how I understand it.
 
John E. said:
I guess what I'm asking is if you take raw materials and machine out a gun from scratch, is it a zip gun or a legal firearm and what makes the difference?
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If you make your own barrel, your own receiver, and all the parts, you "intend it to be a firearm", ergo not a "zip gun" by definition.

If you go buy a Paladin Press manual off the news stand and make a 12 gauge shotgun out of water pipe and 2x4, you've built a zip gun.
 
I guess what I'm asking is if you take raw materials and machine out a gun from scratch, is it a zip gun or a legal firearm and what makes the difference?
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If it shoots a projectile it’s going to need rifling it can only be smooth bore if it shoots shot. If you intend to cobble up something from crap lying around you might garner a little more scrutiny than one who spends hours with machine equipment making a first class firearm. I contact the ATF and or the NFA branch before starting a build if it’s outside the norm. You can build what some might call “zip guns” if you send in a Form 1 for an AOW along with specifications and $200. You can call the NFA branch at 304-616-4500 for more details.
 
Ahh!! Good point, forgot about the smoothbore vs rifling angle. 18 inches vs 16 inches barrel. No pistol shotguns unless its a SBS.
 
No pistol shotguns unless its a SBS.
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No, of course not! No pistol shotguns unless it's an AOW (Any Other Weapon)!

SBSs have butt-stocks.

Isn't this simple? ;)

-Sam
 
"A zip gun is a slang term."

With respect, bobotech, 'zip gun' is (ambiguously) defined by the Texas Legislature in the statute I quoted in the original post.

Along the lines of what nalioth suggested, a water pipe is a device that was not originally a firearm, so building a shotgun from a water pipe would be illegal.

But would raw pipe tube stock not be a device in the same way that a finished pipe would be?

Is it the threading on the ends of the tube stock that make the tube into a pipe?
 
-So if I cast, bore, and sleeve up a 9-pounder Napoleon cannon then it's a zip gun... unless I rifle the sleeve.

Then it's no longer a historical reproduction.

Now I'm confused.
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No, that's a muzzle-loader and generally exempt from most of the rules. (Though others will have to fill in the specifics.)

Make a "9-pounder" breech-loading rifle using smokeless powder and you've made a Title-II "Large Bore Destructive Device." Which you can do if you file a Form 1 and pay the tax.

-Sam
 
With respect, bobotech, 'zip gun' is (ambiguously) defined by the Texas Legislature in the statute I quoted in the original post.
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I have always heard "zip gun" in respect to people making guns out of pens or whatever. Crude homemade guns that use cartridges. My dad used that term when referring to guns made by gang members in the 50s and 60s in the Bronx where he grew up. A zip gun isn't a particular type of home made gun, its just a generic/slang term that some states have felt the need to define. I'm not sure why they felt the need to define the term but that really isn't important. The important fact is that you can build a gun of your own purely by scratch provided its not illegal by ATF standards (less than 18 inch smoothbore barrel, etc). If it has a rifled barrel, then it can't be no less than 16 inches unless there is no provisions for a rear stock since the receiver would be a virgin and could be made into a pistol.

The Texas definition goes into detail about a zipgun being a smoothbore which makes sense. How many gang members do you know would take the time to get a rifled barrel for their zip gun?
 
Have not heard the term Zip Gun in years (I'm so old)
Tie a pipe to a board, secure a door bolt with a heavy rubber band to the pipe/board set up....launch a large nail or bolt.
 
Where would this fit in the great scheme of things?

http://www.modelgatlinggunplans.com/#
I know a regular Gatling is "legal" (not considered a full-auto), but what about a 1/3 replica?
Barrels are too short, overall length too short, etc.
I was thinking of taking this on as a machining project, but if I have to get a Form 1 (or whatever) I don't know if it's worth it as I probably will find it beyond my tools capacity. (and mine.:D)
 
deadin said:
Where would this fit in the great scheme of things?

http://www.modelgatlinggunplans.com/#
I know a regular Gatling is "legal" (not considered a full-auto), but what about a 1/3 replica?
Barrels are too short, overall length too short, etc.
I was thinking of taking this on as a machining project, but if I have to get a Form 1 (or whatever) I don't know if it's worth it as I probably will find it beyond my tools capacity. (and mine.)
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I think you'll need to do some deep research.

It's not a rifle.
It''s not a pistol.
It's not fully automatic.
 
Where would this fit in the great scheme of things?
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Its a gatling gun and allowed by the BATFE as long as you have to crank it by hand by some degree for each shot. You would want to keep it on a carriage as a stock might put you into a gray area with the short barrels.
 
I'm curious, so are gatling guns somewhat exempt from the NFA strict definitions along the same lines as how you are allowed to put a stock on some old Mauser pistols without a SBR stamp? Do you have any more info on that. I'm intrigued!
 
I'm curious, so are gatling guns somewhat exempt from the NFA strict definitions along the same lines as how you are allowed to put a stock on some old Mauser pistols without a SBR stamp? Do you have any more info on that. I'm intrigued!
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Gatling guns that are entirely mechanically cranked are considered to only fire once per operation of the firing mechanism by the shooter. That singular operation may be only 1/60th of a revolution, but as long as your hand is moving the crank (and NOT an electric motor moving the crank) it's not a machine gun.

Old Mauser pistols have been specifically exempted from the SBR rules if they use an ORIGINAL stock/holster. Same, I believe with some of the Hi-Powers. Use a reproduction (modern manufactured) butt stock and it will need a SBR registration.

There are also certain Marlin and Winchester lever-action rifles that were produced with 14" barrels. Some of these are specifically called out, by individual serial number, as being Curio and Relics and are exempt from the NFA rules. Identical rifles which are not listed, including any modern reproduction of the same rifle, have to be registered SBRs.

Makes sense, right? No? Oh well, rules is rules...

-Sam
 
You would want to keep it on a carriage as a stock might put you into a gray area with the short barrels.
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Wow. Now that's a permutation I'd never considered! It would almost be worth asking the BATFE tech branch for a letter on a build like that ... assuming that there would be any practical way to wield such a thing.

-Sam
 
jmorris said:
If it shoots a projectile it’s going to need rifling it can only be smooth bore if it shoots shot. If you intend to cobble up something from crap lying around you might garner a little more scrutiny than one who spends hours with machine equipment making a first class firearm. I contact the ATF and or the NFA branch before starting a build if it’s outside the norm. You can build what some might call “zip guns” if you send in a Form 1 for an AOW along with specifications and $200. You can call the NFA branch at 304-616-4500 for more details.
Click to expand...
How do manufacturers get away with making smoothbore .22s? I gues if they say they are intended for shotshells only..

NM, I may have answered my own question..

8*)
 
I think there are some "zip guns" considered C&R. There are a couple of single-shot shotguns that were dropped into the Philippines during WW2 that work on a "slam-fire" principle that I have seen for sale for a couple hundred to thousand dollars in gun shops.

For the most part, a "zip gun" is probably going to be an AOW or and SBS.
 
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