Zombies are invading... our shooting culture!?

[heavydluxe]

So if it takes a village, some local gun nut needs to get this kid under his wing, and if zombie shoots with AK's rings the bell, so be it. It may be fun. BTW, we shot zombie targets from time to time in the SDM course. Have a sense of humor.

So the question I posit to you is this: should we abandon them (call it stupid, make 'em feel like mall cops) or should we embrace it (some could show them how to organize good shoots and make them challenging and fun) and take them under our wing? Instead of making them feel like mall ninjas, perhaps we could make them feel like sports shooters?

Because the tradition has been broken, this may be an opportune time to take this whole zombie craze over and "officialize" it as it were, and it could very well be a good stepping stone for younger shooters to get into competitive shooting. Eventually they'll grow out of it except for the ocassional fun shoot, they'll most likely grow into stock pistol or highpower or something. But this would keep it fun and it would keep them under the supervision of knowledeable individuals teaching them the fundamentals of safety, marksmanship, and competition.

Or we could abandon it and throw it into the anti's court like you said and let them have a field day with it. Because I'm sure they would.

Thank you, Strykervet. +100

 

[Strykervet]

The last thing shooting needs is to in any way legitimize or endorse an activity that makes shooters look irresponsible or "lost in a fantasy world" for the media to twist around the next time some crazy, fool who has lost his grip on reality goes off on some killing spree.
Shooting is fun but it is also serious business. “Zombie shooting” blurs a line between fantasy and reality that could result in negative consequences, such as the non shooting public perceiving those of us involved in shooting to appear to be somewhat delusional. I realize that many shooters, whether it's good or bad, may have been inspired or attracted to the shooting sports by watching TV westerns or war/action movies. However, IMHO Zombies take this to a whole other level. I don't think comparing zombie shoots to CASS is a legitimate comparison because at least it can be argued that CASS has it's roots “somewhat” in history, fact or traditional "Americana" at the very least.. ( btw, if zombies are the Americana of our future then our society is already doomed and spiraling down the toilet..) And, no I DON'T shoot CASS.... I also think that Hornady has tarnished their public image, at least in my eyes, for trying to turn a profit marketing ammo for it... Let’s leave fantasy shooting to video gamers and not bring the fantasy into the world of real shooting…

Well, my point is that we can either abandon them and let the anti's define their actions, OR we, as a community, can take them in and define it ourselves. See, they'll define it exactly as others on here have stated. They'll define it as people disconnected from reality and and more likely to go on a shooting spree if allowed to engage in this behaviour. Kind of like how all you 1911 fanatics are prone to shooting up public places, because you are all fantasizing about the beaches of Normandy. See what I mean? Their entire arguement is slippery. In fact, the anti's are the epitomy of the term "slippery arguement".

Now don't get me wrong. I think it is kind of childish, and I've written on here about how ridiculous it is, and how video games are replacing dad and uncle Pete's weekend hunting trips. I agree. However, I've recently had a change of mind, and I'd like to try and persuade the rest of you as well. It is the reason I started this thread. See, once I found out there are actual "zombie shoots", well, that changes things. Whereas they were outcasts to me last week, this week they are a fledgling sport.

It also makes me recall something we did at Ft. Benning we called the "commie shoot". It is a huge moving target range 99% of you that haven't shot it would give your left foot ('cause you'll need those hands!) to use. It was like Disney Land for me. Little commie silhouettes pop up and run and then pop back down. Some at differing ranges, some fast, some slow, some coming at you. Tons of fun.

To make it a zombie shoot, all you would have to do is paint the silhouettes. Nothing else. Then you have a moving zombie shoot. The fun factor would remain the same. The mechanics of the shoot remain the same. The only change is cosmetic.

A lot like cowboy shooting. They simply dress up and use stage props and six shooters, but the mechanics of the competitions are not much different from other competitions where they don't dress up. They even have a 3gun version where you use a six shooter, a lever action, and a shotgun, and you guessed it, the mechanics are the same as 3gun but with cosmetics.

So, zombie shoots are, by logical process, not really any different than cowboy shooting. Considering most cowboy shooters are older folks, and most zombie afficianados are younger folks, I'd say a prejudice exists against younger shooters.

SO. I say again, would you rather take them in or throw them out? Wasn't all that long ago I'd vote to throw them out, but now I know it is developing into a sport with a focus and meaning, that changes things. Aimlessly dressing up and playing zombie with real weapons, that is ludicrous, but engaging in a shooting sport that has zombie cosmetics, that is a whole different story.

 

[red-demon652]

And to say again we shoot human life like targets,we dont see that getting bashed. Why the zmax. There guns put out and marketed evey day for the use of and intent of shooting another human being as well ammo. Critical defense. Person defense. Hand guns the judge,public defender. I mean if the advertisement is what ur worried about. Id be more worried about mossburg selling a sawed off 12 gauge ass a riot gun in public stores. I mean the list of guns with names that are in the relms and puts you in the state of mind for shooting ppl go on and on. And were worried about a fictional advertisement,vs,all shapes and sizes of non fictional. Id be more worried about dumnass buys a tourus judge to kill a judge than someone buying zmax.

 

[mgmorden]

A lot like cowboy shooting. They simply dress up and use stage props and six shooters, but the mechanics of the competitions are not much different from other competitions where they don't dress up. They even have a 3gun version where you use a six shooter, a lever action, and a shotgun, and you guessed it, the mechanics are the same as 3gun but with cosmetics.

Actually, the logistics aren't all that much like 3-gun, and its kind of important to the thread. Cowboy action shooting has very limited stages. You can't move with a loaded gun in your hand or shoot on the move. Round counts are low, and stage design is usually just a basic "Here's some targets - shoot em".

My point is that while it is scored, and there are people who care about the score, much of what really makes the other shooting sports competitive disciplines is stripped out of CASS. It really isn't that much about the scoring or stage part of it - the dress up and have fun aspect is what most people seem to come out for. The shooting is just kind of an activity that gets woven into it as part of the fun, but it (and particularly the scorekeeping part) is secondary. Indeed, from what I've seen they have so many separate divisions that it seems that at the local matches everyone is shooting is different divisions anyways and so aren't scored against each other.

They have fun doing what they're doing. Having fun is a good thing.

Personally, I can honestly say that I don't have much interest in zombie targets myself, nor shooting in a match with just zombie targets (I do shoot USPSA and enjoy it thoroughly).

HOWEVER, you setup a match that mimics a zombie SITUATION and I'd find it incredibly fun. Doesn't even need to be zombie targets. Setup 10-12 USPSA or IDPA targets on trolleys that move towards the shooter at various speeds. Targets stop advancing after a headshot. Fastest time to stop all targets wins the round - if any target reaches the shooter (or realistically a line a yard or so from them) then they get a DNF for the stage.

I'd be all up for something like that - maybe not routinely, but as something to do for a fun match I'd definitely be up for it. Doesn't mean that I'm imbalanced or expecting zombies to attack - it just means that I'm having fun while shooting.

 

[Nushif]

I could just see a ladder stage ... One handed shooting a pistol while dangling from a ladder.

Zombie stages could also involve a lot of po-up targets at real close range. Walk by a window and BLAM! target pops up ... Run to a ladder, pop off ten targets or so ... Sounds hella fun!

 

[USAF_Vet]

It also makes me recall something we did at Ft. Benning we called the "commie shoot". It is a huge moving target range 99% of you that haven't shot it would give your left foot ('cause you'll need those hands!) to use. It was like Disney Land for me. Little commie silhouettes pop up and run and then pop back down. Some at differing ranges, some fast, some slow, some coming at you. Tons of fun.

Reminds me of the old Nintendo game, Hogan's Alley. That game was a lot of fun.

Ok, let's put this into a different perspective. How many of us that watch Top Shot think it would be sweet to do some of the challenges? How many think flying down a zipline engaging propane filled balloons and tanerite targets, or getting spun around on a crazy carnival ride while shooting at targets, or any of the wild and crazy things on the show, would be fun? I sure as hell do. But golly, is there a realistic circumstance where I'd be in this situation, or would it be shooting for the sake of shooting, and a crapload of fun? I don't see any practical application for that, but I'd give up a toe for the chance.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

SO. I say again, would you rather take them in or throw them out?

Take them in. I don't like the theme, but I do agree with everyone that if it teaches a skill, and gets people into shooting, then, well, "Welcome to the club." is in order. I may think it's silly, but a target is a target I guess.

 

[jerkface11]

I want that gun

 

[Strykervet]

mgmorden, that is what I was thinking of. I stand corrected on the rules of cowboy, but you get my idea. Either the game can be designed around an existing one (3gun or cowboy or whatever) or something entirely new like you suggest --I think having plates or reactive targets moving towards the shooter would be fun. If they have to be dressed up like zombies to be a zombie shoot, whatever, I think if a good enough job was done it might be pretty fun. Maybe at night with a smoke grenade too.

The dummies we hung up by balloons were pretty realistic in a smoky room. We put the balloons in the chest, but you could just as easily put them in the head.

Whatever you do, if you make it fun, people will want to do it. Regardless of their prejudices, if they see their buddies over there having fun they will want to do it too. And if it gets kids to spend time learning to shoot at a shooting club, well, that is better than learning with their juvenile delinquent friends shooting up real zombies at the mall.

My theory is that once you can get someone to play checkers with you and enjoy it, it is easy to get them to play chess.

 

[TennJed]

Justin posted
1.) In all honesty, they don't pay much attention to us, nor what is popular among shooters. The dumbest crazes among shooters tend to fly right under their radar.

2.) Anti-gun activists would rather just simply make things up about us, rather than spend any actual time doing research. If you read any of the two or three blogs run by honest-to-god anti-gun agitators, it doesn't take long to realize that they spend most of their time railing against the gun owners that occupy their head, rather than all of us in the real world.

3.) Even if the anti-gun set spent the time to do the research, it wouldn't matter all that much. They no longer have the money, positive public image, political power, web presence, or media cache to get their message out on a massive scale.

I have never really thought of the antis that way but that makes perfect sense. Thanks for putting things into perspective. Really good post.

As far as the zombie thing goes. I think it is silly, but I understand everybody has their own interest and to each his own.

I LOVE shooting my Single Actions. They are my favorite type of firearm, however I cringe when I see someone dressed as a cowboy. I personally think it looks silly and feel like people imagine me dressed as a cowboy when I show off or mention my SA. I am a bit of a shy guy and do not like to draw attention to myself. But I must admit I do have a little bit of a cowboy fantasy going on in my head when I plink with a Single Action 45. Dress as a cowboy...no way. but guess what? No one else is required to live by my tastes

 

[9mmforMe]

I find the rifle quite unattractive. I also think that Zombie related ammunition and targets are silly and would offer me no greater fun than blasting a regular target with non-zombie ammo. This is just my opinion, but I hope that if this "craze" does bring more shooters to the hobby then that's great. Just so long as these tyros learn to respect what a gun truly is, and IMO, its NOT a toy...toys squirt water.

 

[Skribs]

I actually think the zombie craze will help lessen the anti-gun sentiments around the country, by making guns something that isn't just for scary bad guys or crazy hunters anymore, but also for zombie shoots. A lot of video gamers fall on the left, and "want to go hunting?" or "wanna go to the range?" are probably going to get a firm "no", "want to go shoot some zombies?" might get a yes.

That said, I don't get these guns. I'd rather have a solid black one.

 

[mokin]

Three pages worth. That's funny!

I'm not really into the zombie thing but to each thier own. What I found most distasteful on the link was what they did to a great old war rifle. Hopefully it had been bubba'd before it was "Zombie Slayerd".

Two things struck me as I cruised around the site though. Zombies are a good way to think about disaster preparedness (ala the CDC), and I really liked the page about teaching children to shoot.

 

[ErikO]

I shoot zombie targets at the range and would not hesitate to use a 'zombie gun' that I won in a raffle but would not plan on buying one.

Honestly, anything that is both fun and able to get 'non-shooters' to try the shooting sports is good in my book.

 

[NFG2888]

Im not to sure about this zombie thing. I saw some targets the other day on an AR website selling 3D zombie targets. I love movies like dawn of the dead but spending money to gear up for a zombie apocalypse is a bit much. I think the gun is cool with out the distressed look and the crazy muzzle break; it could be a scout rifle similar to Rugers gunsite rifle. It's all novelties to me and not worth my hard earned cash, but to each is own.

 

[DAdams]

I know I am OT...but here is a little Zombie Story...it's an excerpt including zombie fantasy and zombie reality (not the Haitian Zombie Slave reality) I wrote while sitting here....

Our Prepared Survivor....

had quit smoking three years before. One of the upsides of the ZA (a euphemism for anything terminally disruptive) was that life was so cheap it didn't matter if you smoked cigarettes any more. I resumed that habit so fast it was like I never quit.

Thinking back we all knew "something" was coming sooner or later. The signs were there.

It (this zombie/hurricane business) was all rather humerous and even the main stream media had picked up on the Zombie Apocalypse mania when the CDC used it to do a "Be Prepared Campaign".....

http://emergency.cdc.gov/preparedness/

"Get a kit, make a plan, be prepared". It was probably the first time the Government was here to help and actually was and probably did! I certainly bought enough stuff from Cabelas, CTD, Bud's, the Ammoman and Gander Mountain. I even heard the radio version of the Be Prepared Campaign during the Neal Boortz Show one day while headed to Turkey Creek Mall. It really spooked me and actually for a millisecond it rippled my space time continuum.

In retrospect they knew something we didn't? Wasn't one of the theorys of SCI-FI books and movies to de-sensitize the general populace of the day? Heck we are ready to deal with stuff that was out there and now is here. It is the Governments job to keep the lid on and promote domestic tranquility afterall.

Pop culture was being used to prepare the masses for an event, wow, a cool CDC campaign...
http://blogs.cdc.gov/publichealthmatters/2011/05/preparedness-101-zombie-apocalypse/
They called it Preparedness 101: The Zombie Apocalypse. Man we didn't know how prophetic they were. You can even buy ZA Be Prepared T Shirts from the Feds. Really.



I remember commenting to my Wife on the night of December 15th (I made a mental note) while watching Brian Williams (we used to laugh together and call him Brian Fellows, Safari Planet) and NBC News when he described how scientists had taken the H1N1 virus and made it a more potent flu then introduced it to ferrets to watch how it would make the "jump" to and through the human population. That certainly was a proverbial freaking and defining moment. Someone was actually being funded at the University of Wisconsin to do this.

When the sh*t finally did enter the general population, all the preparing of the domestic military under the auspices of the Center for Asymmetric Warfare and Domestic Preparedness and Conplan 3501/3502 couldn't bar the doors...the genie was out of the bottle and wasn't going back.

I had always more pictured the onset (of the ZA) being like the jet sunken in the swamp, like in the movie "The Crazies", or the dark military secrets under development in the Central Quarantine Zone, "it's where the epidemic began. The first virals all came out of Colorado". like in the book The Passage.

Now that it had happened it was all much less dramatic....but just as devastating. We watched, transfixed.

"This was our second recon trip back to Gatlinburg.....Approaching down wind, we weren't there to feed the carion birds or put some short lost loved one out of their misery...this was a cleansing; we wanted our town back. As we moved to the ridge and within large caliber rifle range, two guys were quietly singing"-

Well let me tell you 'bout the way she looked
The way she'd act and the colour of her hair
Her voice was soft and cool
Her eyes were clear and bright
But she's not there

- The Zombies -

These laggards would eventually perish on their own, but winter was coming and camping out for five months was getting old. Nature needed a bit of a nudge.

Thanks to the Federal Govenment and the Zombie Prepardness Campaign, we were prepared, but in some zombie movie somewhere I recall it said that the ones who went early, they were the lucky ones. Amen. "Safeties Off."

 

[wannabeagunsmith]

Geez guys lighten up a bit. I was just saying that if someone who is not "all there" came across this stuff and got his hands on a firearm, it wouldn't play out very well with the liberal media. Now, am I saying this could happen? no.

 

[DAdams]

it wouldn't play out very well with the liberal media. Now, am I saying this could happen?

Blame it on George Romero and AMCs The Walking Dead.

 

[MuleRyder]

I don't understand any of this zombie stuff...

 

[DAdams]

I don't understand any of this zombie stuff...

There is the popular movie vision of Zombies, Night of This and Dawn of That, fun stuff, Malls full of Guns, women to chase and likker to consume. Until you are driven to the roof.

This is my view of the ZA.

Have you been to Flint, Detroit, or Ecourse MI or South Bend, IN, or parts of Memphis lately?

Think of the ZA as a euphemism for (any cataclysm) that is to come, Zero Hedge, whether it is a global pandemic, the 16th IMAM, O'Bama re-elected or the crash of the EU. Man's quality of life and society is on the decline. Read my tag line.

Seriously, look at this.....

http://www.cdcfoundation.org/zombies

this is our Government warning us to be prepared. Why?

We just witnessed thousands of "zombies" setting fire to our Cities. "Occupy____(insert City).

Zombie? "We have met the enemy and he is us". Or something like that. The real zombies may shoot back.

 

[CZguy]

I was with MuleRyder because I didn't understand it either. But thanks to DAdams for his definitive "zombie attack" posts. I now get it.

 

[Steve Raacke]

A few years ago I came across a preparedness website called Zombie Squad. It came about from a group of young guys and gals (often peirced and tatooed) who met regularly to drink and watch horror movies. Some of them took to critiquing the characters and actions in the movies from a prepper point of view. They started looking around for first aid and emergency preparedness training and found it lacking in many areas and what they did find often didn't appeal to a younger demographic.
So they took their love of horror movies and decided to use the zombie metaphore as a "hook" to help people get interested in serious subjects such as preparing for disasters such as earthquakes, floods, hurricanes or whatever. As someone else pointed out in this thread already, they use the idea "If you are prepared for Zombies, then you are pretty much prepared for anything else". Soon they were being sought out by other groups to help teach preparedness seminars. They make learning about how to stock a 72 hour emergency bug out bag or first aid kit something fun instead of something stale and boring. They talk about firearms, sure, but also getting your ham radio license or having a evacuation plan should you have to flee your home at a moments notice due to wildfire or flood. They dress up as Zombie Hunters or as the undead to play out scenerios and then say "Of course this probably won't happen but wouldn't you like to know that should _______ (fill in possible emergency) occur that you had prepared to handle it?" If a you live near an airport or rail line do you have plans for a plane crash or train derailment in your neighborhood? These are the "Zombies" they refer too, not actual waling undead.
Zombie Squad formed chapters and started having charity events such as blood drives and food drives. They raise money for disaster victims like the tornadoes in Joplin or the earthquake/Tusnami in Japan. They use "zombie walks" and similar events to raise awareness of these efforts. Again, the "hook" of the horror movie is used as a way of getting and keeping the interest of the public.
Yes, some people may think the idea of zombies and such horror monsters is wierd but by using this as a way of getting peoples interest in prepping and personal responsibility, groups like Zombie Squad are helping all of us.
I see the same thing when I see mention of Zombie Shoots. It's a way of getting a different demographic interested in a shooting sport and as long as it's done safely and responsibly then I'm all for it.

 

[RhinoDefense]

The original use of zombies on the gun forums dates back to the early 90s and the discussion of lethal force in self defense. The admins of many boards were very cautious to be mentioning and discussing the taking of a human life, even in self defense. This was right after the Clinton AWB and during the time when shall issue concealed carry was gaining popularity among states. In order to have the freedom to discuss lethal self defense without being poster boys for the anti gun crowd to showcase, we collectively use the term "zombie" to represent the criminal in question; ie "if you're walking your dog at night and a zombie jumps out of the bushes demanding money at knifepoint, what do you do?" kind of stuff. We knew what it represented but anyone not "in the know" figured we were goofing around and it didn't raise eyebrows of Internet censors.

With the crap that's been happening in Hollywood and with marketing firms, it's lost its original meaning. Now it's a fad that will die out.

 

[Zoogster]

I dislike the zombie stuff.
I think it seems similar to enabling or encouraging the mentality of spree shooters, and gives an overall immature image.
I guess that is what you get now that guns are a lot more mainstream after the last couple years, a much higher percentage of the public is part of the gun culture than before.

I notice zombies in most media are slow, dumb, attack in large numbers, lack strategy, and essentially mindlessly go in the direction of someone.
Mowing them down is easy and requires little skill, the only chance they have of defeating someone armed is overwhelming them in large numbers after dozens are mowed down.
They are easy targets, they don't shoot back, and quite frankly appeal to someone that doesn't want to actually engage something that fights back effectively, even in fantasy.
Another armed threat certainly takes more skill than a typical zombie, and even your old alien or other sneaky or fast monster is a far more capable and challenging adversary than your typical zombie.

They are like unarmed dehumanized people, acceptable to slaughter in as large a number as possible by being made grotesque.


While I know most people can differentiate fiction and real life, I don't like popularizing shooting massive numbers of unarmed humanoids. It seems too close to the mentality of some mentally unstable person opening firing on people they have dehumanized and don't see as humans beings but as targets.
On top of that the gore of the zombie, which are bloody human beings with signs of serious injury or other gore desensitizes one to the gore of a human being that has suffered serious injury.
Does this desensitize someone creating such gore shooting real people?
One must ask what the psychology is behind the appeal of shooting massive numbers of targets that pose no real challenge and walk or run towards you unarmed. Reviling in the killing and gore the zombie represents.
The appeal seems to be to those that want to shoot fish in a barrel as the saying goes, but want those fish to be as close to human beings as possible, combined with a lot of gore, and made acceptable because they are ineffectively trying to do you harm.
Sure it is just fiction and most people differentiate that from reality, but some people are also psychologically immature and the distinction between reality and fiction is not as great. Especially if the fiction is closer to something real.


Many of the zombie media also pits some group against what is essentially the world. Its them against the world, the world being a bunch of zombies.
It seems a lot like a mentality someone like the shooters of Columbine would have. Outcasts that band together and use violence to kill large numbers of defenseless unarmed people, people that they have allowed themselves to see no empathy for, dehumanized them. Like zombies are dehumanized human beings.


All in all while I can certainly appreciate various Apocalyptic fiction, and certainly there may be an additional appeal to someone into firearms or an Apocalyptic scenario best resolved with firearms. However I must question how healthy combining a zombie and shooting culture is.
What small percentage of that culture combination may be closer to doing something horrible because of it?
Lets keep shooting something professional and wholesome. If you want casual and fun there is plinking, reactive targets, and a host of entertaining things.

 

[DAdams]

Good Post Yale, thanks for sharing that information.

Here is a link to the CDC Zombie Store. They have T-Shirts and it is a not for profit organization to increase emergency preparedness awareness. I guess you could say that the zombie has been legitimized now that we the taxpayer are supporting it use as a marketing tool.

http://www.printmojo.com/CDCzombies/Store/Product.php?ProductID=19799

Here is the link to the CDC number one item in their Emergency Preparedness Plan:
Make a kit. Not a bad idea. We all know the benefits of a BOB, whether you bug out or not.
http://emergency.cdc.gov/preparedness/kit/disasters/


Next thing you know there will be Call of Duty Shoots,,,,,,oh wait, A,N,AF,M, CG already has those.. join up and "play" for a few years.