.270 Winchester VS 7.62x54r - for elk

[Cob]

Which caliber would be the better rifle for an elk, if limited to the two calibers?

the .270 Winchester shoots well, has excellent optics, in a Win. Model 70 featherweight. It's proven excellent on deer & antelope. The maximum bullet weight is 150 grains.

The 7.62x54 is a Mosin Nagant 91/30. Bullet Weight optionsare 180 - 208 grains. It's unproven except on paper, but have a bit of time for practice, and some extra ammunition.

Any thoughts on this comparison?
(this hunt is going to cost enough already, and can't afford a new gun... also have a 30-30, didn't throw that into the equation)

 

[nathan]

Isnt it the Russian hunters use the 54 R to hunt big game, grizzlies , SIberian tigers and caribous in their area of responsibility ? As long its within reasonable distance and it hits the vital areas, they are dead meat.

I dont have a .270 but have confidence in my Sako M 39 with 180 gr SP and 203 gr SP to make those kill shots. As long its within 100 -150 yds, i think they wont run far.

 

[saturno_v]

It's unproven except on paper, but have a bit of time for practice, and some extra ammunition.

Ask the Russian hunters if it is "unproven".....

 

[nathan]

They said, its your confidence to make that kill shot .

 

[Cob]

The mosin has been a project that i have been working on, and have been impressed with the action... I know that i under estimated this rifle at first glance, mainly due to the low price tag...

The .270 hits well, but have had to shoot more than 3 times on the biggest 10 pt. that ever harvest, that would have dropped the 100 lb doe in her tracks. It also took 5 shot on a 400 lb hog. I like it but would like to throw a heavier bullet.

 

[H&Hhunter]

Cob,

That's a nice old PF M-70 you've got there in .270. My dad had one for years and killed, at the time the new world record Siberian Ibex with his.

I've killed a couple of elk with a .270. It's every bit as effective as anything else in it's class. I too like a bit heavier bullet for elk but the .270 does must fine if you do your part.

BTW most larger animals will run for some distance with a lung or heart shot no matter what you shoot them with. If you want stuff to just fall over you need to adjust your aiming point slightly. Move form a behind the shoulder shot to a in the shoulder shot. You will lose a bit more meat but your critters will fall over much quicker.

400 lb hogs....I've seen smaller ones take as many or more .375H&H bullets in the chest and not fall over immediately.

 

[rbernie]

AFAIK, a properly constructed 150gr .277 bullet is plenty of medicine for elk. I'd worry far more about picking a platform that I know will put the bullet were I want it than to sweat the terminal ballistic differences between 270 and 7.62x54R.

I dunno why you have had issues with the 270 in the past, but most every multiple-shot hunting experience that I've had has been attributable to either poor shot placement by me or a mismatch between the bullet and game (e.g. using too hard of a bullet on thin-skinned game or too frangible of a bullet on heavier game).

 

[fallout mike]

I've killed numerous white tails with a Browning A bolt .270. They were all one shot kills. Most dropped in their tracks. As mentioned, shot placement is the main thing.

 

[CoRoMo]

I've killed a number of elk, and I ONLY hunt with .270 Winchester.

 

[brnmuenchow]

I have both, and for Elk within 200 yds.(no scope) I would use the 7.62x54R it is a proven stopper, no problem. I would however go with some heavier grain SP's. The .270win. is also capable of taking an Elk with proper bullet selection and shot placement.

 

[pikid89]

go with the .270 and practice practice practice

 

[Smoovbiscuit]

I say 7.62 nagant for style points

jk. I just love nagant's. From what I have read 7.62x54r has similar ballistics to .308 win which I can imagine would do the job. I've never hunted elk though.

 

[hardluk1]

A nieghbor is a diehard 270 man and has taken 3 nice elk with his 270 and shoots a barne x bullet in it this year he shot some barnes house brand ttxs 130gr or something like that. He said all 3 had major shoulder damage and did not travel but a very short distance. But shoot the rifle that shoots the best for you at distance and on a cold barrel. One of his elk was hit at 320 yards and one at 25 yards.

 

[Cob]

The buck was tough & old. I shot thrice, and found 3 bullet holes, but he ran a little farther than i was comfortable with. (posted a pic of him here
http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=7004687&postcount=44

The hog was even tougher...and was twice the size of the biggest deer. I was happy to have been in a tree stand, I've seen bears smaller than that hog, and it took 4 guys to load him in the back of a truck, and a front end loader to remove hime. He smelled so bad, that i dug a hole and buried him.
The landowner wanted them removed, as nuisance species.
(both were killed with 130 grain bullets, BT,SP)
I figure an elk would be twice the size of the hog, and did not want to take any chances...

What bullet selection would be best for .270

 

[Cob]

H & H , What do you mean by initals PF?
I love the gun..it's been my favorite rifle for over 10 years now...

 

[pikid89]

as for bullets in .270?
i would go with the time proven Remington Core Lokt 130/150 grain, whichever your rifle shoots better

 

[Frozen North]

I would think that the model 70 is a fine sporting rifle with better accuracy, less weight, and better looks. The optics will make a longer shot much more accurate.

The Nagant is a war club, a fine war club, but still a war club. I know that I would not hesitate at taking a 200-300 yard shot with a model 70 .270 with good optics. That may be a bit of a stretch with crude military Nagant sites.

Either caliber has enough oomph to get the job done without a doubt.

I would set a target about the size of an elk's vitals out at 300 yards and let the two rifles tell you who gets the job.

The Nagant gets you style points for sure. I plan on hunting white tail deer with mine just to irritate a couple gun snobs in my camp this year

 

[H&Hhunter]

Cob,

PF stands for Push Feed. Your Model 70 was produced during the time that Winchester was producing push feed action rifles. Anything pre 1964 would have been a CRF or controlled round feed. Just about anything post about 1991 (I believe) will be a Classic CRF action with the exception of an abortive attempt at CPF that was a complete flop in the last years of the New Haven guns.

While your rifle is very nice and the later PF action guns were very smooth they are not worth much on the used market. You can buy older PF model 70's dirt cheap.

The easy way to tell the difference is to look at the side of your bolt if it is round with no extractor arm attached it is a PF if it has an extractor arm the length of the bolt it is a CRF. The CRF offers more positive extraction and once the bolt picks the round up from the magazine it controls it while it places it into the chamber. IE if you were to fall or the gun was bumped there is no way the round can fall out or disengage the bolt face it also makes it nearly impossible to get a double feed.

A PF does not offer any of those advantages which is why the CRF action is the preferred action on a M-70 rifle.

 

[natman]

The Winchester, push feed or not, is a much better hunting rifle than a Moisin and you can get much better ammo for it. Get a premium bullet 150 grain load and go hunting.

 

[hardluk1]

The very best bullet you could shoot would be a Barne's X in any of there forms for the 270 or for the 7.62 would look to have some limits as to what is avalible.

 

[shaggy430]

Due to bullet selection, I would choose the .270 hands down. Also, I'm not sure where you are hunting, but believe me, if you have to climb up and down mountains you'll be much better off carrying the lighter M70 featherweight. After my first elk hunt of carrying a 10+ pound rifle I went out and bought a Tikka T3 Lite.

 

[Rancho Relaxo]

I love my mosins, but the accuracy and weight of my .270 make it a hands down better choice for hunting. Maybe you don't need benchrest accuracy for an elk, but I feel much more confident knowing my .270 loads group at .75 Moa rather than 2.5.

 

[CGOLIVER]

My father and I both managed to kill Colorado 5points last year with a old Model 70 Featherweight in .270Win. both were one shot kills, mine was DRT. We were using 130 grain Barnes TSX. Also, there is a pile of antlers in the shop from my Dad and his dad that testify to 130gr Winchester Power-Points working as well.

Enjoy your hunt, elk season is what gets me out of bed in the morning!

 

[Cob]

Thanks a bunch for the posts. I have some 150 grain hunting bullets that i'll use with the .270. It's really my favorite anyway, and it's the most accurate that i own. BTW it is PF, and i picked it up very reasonable about 10 years ago.

 

[brnmuenchow]

I agree go with what you are most comfortable with, and no not all mosin nagant M91/30's accuracy are the same, mine happens to be about as accurate as I could hope for in an old WW2 battle rifle (very accurate) and the .270Win. is a fantastic choice I have one and love it. I don't however have a featherweight model mine is a supergrade and it is pretty heavy as well. I inherited it from my grandfather, and he purchased it used back in the early '70's. So for me weight wise both the Mosin, and Model 70 with a scope feel about the same carry wise.